I need help deciding which breed of snake to get.

[Ohnoaghost]

Hello there,

I'm new to these forums as well as new to owning a snake.

please see my other post.

Edit.... I moved these togeteher - Wayne

[Ohnoaghost]

Hello there,

I tried to post this thread previously but once i posted submit I couldn't find it anywhere so this is my second attempt. I am new to this forum and new to being a soon-to-be snake owner. I am having trouble deciding which breed of snake to get. I've done some research and have found out that the three snake breeds that are good for beginners like myself are corn snakes, milk/king snakes and Ball Pythons. My cousin has a Ball Python and love holding her and having her wrap around my wrist and hand but I've read that corn snakes don't do that, is that true? And do king snakes "cuddle" like that? I want a snake that "cuddles" but I'd like to have one that is a bit more colorful than a Ball Python. I'm looking for one that also won't get like huge in the next few years because I plan on still living in an appt for a while. Also, in the years to come once I get more experienced with this snake I would like to try my hand at breeding him or her. Could you help me out with which snake I should get? Thank you! :)

[infernalis]

http://www.thamfriends.com/mat.jpg

[percey39]

hello and welcome to the site. From what i have read and be told corns and milks are pretty much a fast paced snakes that dont tollerate excessive handling ( most dont like handling anyway ). I believe balls are a good snake, but are pretty shy on a whole and require more care compared to the others you suggested ie humidity and temps. Im sure there are keepers of all these species your talking about that will be able to help you further.

[Nafun]

Ball pythons are good cuddlers because they're lazy. If you're holding one, it'll just hold on for the ride, because moving is too much work. Corns, milks, and kings are more likely to want to explore.

I own (or owned r.i.p. Jonas) all four species, I'll share with you what I know of their husbandry requirements and temperaments.

Ball Python - Ball pythons are native to sub-saharan africa. In the wild they spend their days lounging in rodent burrows waiting until they get hungry. When they get hungry, they go off in search of a new rodent burrow, eat the inhabitants, and go back to lounging. I give this little bit of background to explain their behavior in captivity. Ball pythons are lazy.

I own four ball pythons, from 2 months old, to 3 years old. Each and every one of them is so lazy that if I leave their enclosure open, and forget about them for several hours, they will still be inside when I return. (I don't recommend this, just an example.) Most get very tame, some can be nippy, but this is an exception. Only one of my balls has ever struck at me, and one hisses when touched, but on the whole they are gentle lazy snakes concerned with nothing more than the location of the next rat. Like any snake, however, you need to handle them regularly to keep them tame.

Ball Pythons grow to a length of 3-5 feet, but with a diameter similar to a soda can. My largest ball, Dodge, is about three feet long, and as wide as a soda bottle. He weighs about 10lbs.

Ball Pythons have stricter heat and humidity requirements than corns/milks/kings. They need a temperature gradient of about 80-88 degrees, a night time drop as low as 75 is acceptable. Temperatures lower or higher than this can lead to respiratory infection, digestion problems, heat stroke, and death. Ideally humidity needs to be kept at about 60% minimum, however, in the wild these snakes seek out high humidity by sleeping in rodent burrows. Because of this, Ball Pythons work well with humid hides. To create a humid hide, cut two holes in a plastic container just big enough for your snake to fit inside. Line the bottom with wet paper towels and place it in the enclosure. Many people, myself included, have had good success with humid hides.

The biggest argument for ball pythons as a starter snake is the their reticence to bite. When threatened, Ball Pythons curl up into a ball and hide their heads. Care should be taken when taming because this behavior is not absolute. If curling into a ball doesn't "work", and they still feel threatened, they *will* strike. A ball python can deliver a much nastier bite than any other snake on your list.

The biggest argument against ball pythons for inexperienced keepers is the fact that they are notoriously finicky eaters. However, most cases of finicky eating in captive bed specimens can be traced back to the keeper, not the snake. Before you get your snake, have your enclosure set up. Make sure you can maintain the correct temperatures. When you pick out your ball python, ask the following questions. When was it last fed, and did it eat? When was its last shed? What has it been feeding on? When you get your new ball python, leave it alone for two weeks. Completely alone. The enclosure, if properly set up, will do fine for two weeks without cleaning (you can spot clean if he craps, they only do so about once a month) I know you'll want to handle your new snake and watch him and show him off. There will be plenty of time for this, AFTER he is eating. For the first two weeks, put him in a quiet room with a normal day/night cycle and do not disturb him.

After two weeks, check on him. If his eyes aren't milky blue, place him in a feeding tub with the prey species, size, and type he last ate (live adult mouse, dead pink rat, etc). Close the feeding tub, turn out the lights, and leave the room (I highly recommend trying freshly killed, or frozen/thawed first, even if the snake was previously getting live). If feeding live, leave a small amount of rodent food in the feeding tub. If feeding dead, you can leave him with the rodent over night. If feeding live, you should pull the rodent if he shows no interest. (if he hides his head when the rodent approaches he's not interested) If he refuses to feed, or if his eyes were milky blue, try again in 7 days while continuing to leave him alone.

These snakes are slow, fat bodied, and, in their natural environment, don't have a lot of room to move around. Eating makes them vulnerable because they are not able to move quickly, or turn around easily in rodent burrows. Because of this, they won't feed if they don't feel safe. Your snake will naturally assume you are a predator, and while the goal of snake keeping may be to convince him that you are not, that is a second priority to getting the snake eating.

Pros: Docile, Reluctant to bite, no musk, tolerant of handling. Lots of morphs available.
Cons: tropical heat/humidity, can be difficult feeders, lazy, morphs tend to be very expensive, Adults consume medium to large rats


Corn Snakes - Corn snakes are a variety of rat snake native to much of North America. Because of their wide range and temperate environment, they can do well at room temperature with minor supplemental heating.

Corn snakes are not lazy snakes, they will slither and move about when handled. However, taming them down requires some patience. Where as Ball Pythons tend to curl up as a defense mechanism, corn snakes will rear up, vibrate their tails to imitate a rattlesnake, strike, musk, and run. In order to break them of this, you must ignore it. They must learn that you are neither a predator, nor intimidated by this behavior. If a snake learns that hissing, and striking scares you away, they will keep hissing and striking and never tame down. Like all colubrids, corns musk, but in my experience do so far less.

Corns tend to have a strong feeding response, but in the event a corn refuses to feed (and it is not displaying milky blue eyes), the same strategy should be used as I listed for balls. Corns will start on mouse pinks but not move up much past adult mice or rat pups.

Corns should do fine at normal household temperatures and humidity. A water dish must be provided for soaking (but this should be standard for all snakes), and supplemental heating should be provided (such as an under the tank heater). If winter temperatures drop much below 70 degrees, they will stop feeding and brumate (hibernate), to avoid this, keep the temperature up.

Pros: Tame down well, inexpensive, cheap to feed, lots of morphs available cheaply, easy to maintain heat/humidity requirements
Cons: Don't get very big, often nippy, very active means more likely to escape.

Milk Snake - In most cases milk snakes are similar to corns, so I will list the differences, rather than repeat a lot of information.

Milk snakes tend to have more southern habitats than corns, as such they enjoy warmer temperatures. They are also semi-fossorial. That means they enjoy burrowing, so a loose substrate should be provided for them.

Milk snakes are very quick to musk, and very reticent to bite. They tend to not tame down as well as other colubrids. They are escape artists and will spend all of their time looking for a way out of their enclosure.

Size of prey and temperature requirements will very significantly on the subspecies of milk snake in question. Depending on subspecies, size varies from under 2 feet, to more than 4 feet, with prey size varying accordingly. Temperatures vary by subspecies, but a temperature range of 80-85 is most typical.

Pros: Small, active, can look almost exactly like coral snakes, many subspecies to choose from, reluctant to bite, large number of subspecies as opposed to color morphs means more genetic diversity, and less inbreeding.

Cons: Small, can be difficult to tame, will musk at the drop of a hat, higher temperature requirements, likes to burrow in substrate which can lead to "pet sand" syndrome.

Kingsnake - The first thing to understand about the kingsnake is where it got its name. Like the King Cobra, the Kingsnake gets its name from its diet. In the wild, these snakes feed on other snakes. Because of this, it is vitally important to never house a kingsnake with another snake, not even another kingsnake. Even if you're breeding kingsnakes, they must be watched at all times to ensure that one doesn't attempt to eat the other.

Kingsnakes have temperature requirements generally between corns and milks. A temperature gradient ranging from 78-85 should leave them comfortable.

I have never been struck at by my kingsnake, but that is not to say that no kingsnakes strike. They are, however, very very quick to musk, and faster than you can possibly believe. They are notorious for escaping. Their musk is very slippery and serves more as a lubricant to prevent capture than a scent deterrent.

Kingsnakes average 3.5 to 5 feet in length, lengths of 6 feet is not uncommon, lengths of 8+ feet is not unheard of. Like milks and corns, kingsnakes are thin bodied snakes. An 6 foot kingsnake will likely weigh less than a 3 foot ball python, and take smaller prey. My kingsnake was the hardest colubrid for me to tame, and is still difficult to catch, though he no longer musks when held.

Pros: Lots of subspecies available, less likely to bite than corns, easily maintained temperature and humidity requirements, morphs and aberrant colorings available.

Cons: Super fast, quick to musk, escape artists, shy, fast+musk+escape artist means you are more likely to lose this snake than anything else on the list.

--------------------------------------------------
Some of this is first hand knowledge, some of it is "book learnin'", and some of it is observational based on the specimens I own. I'm sure there are kings that bite, and corns that musk, and ball pythons that occasionally move. The point being that you never know precisely what you're going to get. Always assume that any snake you buy is going to bite you, crap on you, and escape. Don't bank on getting a species that doesn't do one of these things, because every individual snake is different. Expect the worst, hope for the best.

[infernalis]

another excellent post Nafun.

[Lankyrob]

We ahve three corns = they all tolerate handling with no real issues at all. Our adult corn is happiest when wrapped around my arm.

[shaunyboy]

hello and welcome

its only carpet pythons i work with,they would be a bit big for you as you said you did'nt want your new snake getting too big.
cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

hello and welcome

do you have a snake yet or are you still deciding what to get
cheers shaun

[Will0W783]

Another snake to consider is a Children's python or Stimson's python. Both stay around 3-4 feet long and are a light tan with brown spots and lots of iridescence. I have 1.2 Stimsons and I love them. They are friendly, calm, curious little pythons.

[Grimleo]

Hi, welcome. :D

[presspirate]

Hey, welcome to the forums. Whatever snake you get, be sure to do all of your research and gather all of your supplies before purchasing your little buddy. It will be easier on both of you when you can get him home and slide him into his custom made habitat. Lots of good info here and a lot of great people willing to help you out.

Good Luck!

[Ohnoaghost]

Well thank you so much for all the information! Especially Nafun that was super helpful. No, I do not have the snake yet, I'm trying to do my research to decide which one would be the best for me to get. I think I'm really leaning toward the Ball python now, I want a snake that won't be as active and likely to escape and from what everyone has said they seem to be very relaxed. Are there any other type of pythons that might be good to get? And also my friend mentioned something about Boa's? I've heard boa's can be kind of nasty though, what do you guys think?

[Freebody]

hello and welcome to the forum :)
nafun hit the nail with his post for ya, thats lays each one out perfectly for you. you said somthing a little more colorful than a ball python, if this is the only reason for looking else were for somthing with more color look at these balls i posted,ball pythons are Very colorfull and may have one of the largest selections of different color morphs. it really just come down to what you want to spend on you first snake and if you planning on breeding them later as you said what options for different morphs you want. ie that killer clown is Expensive but the morphs you could possible get from breeding that are limitless. i hope that doesnt confuse you as much as it does me lol

[Ohnoaghost]

Thanks for the pics freebody! I really like that one thats mostly white, what is that called? And also I'm not looking to spend too too much money on the snake to begin with since I'm just getting started with everything. Could you guys give me an idea of what I would need to set up a proper ball python home and a proper corn snake home? How much money should I spend on just the tank? After seeing lankyrob's pretty corn snake wrapped around his arm I can't decide between the ball pythons or a corn snake haha, least I narrowed it down a bit, maybe price will help me narrow it down even more :)

[Ohnoaghost]

Hm, thats weird. I had posted a post b4 my last one there thanking nafun and everyone else for all the information but I guess it didn't work? haha. So thank you Nafun and everyone else that information REALLY helped me narrow it down. I still am getting used to using forums :p

[Lankyrob]

Corns are cheaper to set up in my opinion and their husbandry is also "easier". As a personal opinion i would choose Corns as a introductory snake whenever i am asked.

[Freebody]

this should help you for a cage.How to build 4x2 enclosure for $100 - Redtailboa.net (http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/how-tos-tutorials/28742-how-build-4x2-enclosure-100-a.html) that would be a good cage size for you

[infernalis]

this should help you for a cage.How to build 4x2 enclosure for $100 - Redtailboa.net (http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/how-tos-tutorials/28742-how-build-4x2-enclosure-100-a.html) that would be a good cage size for you

I can do it for $25 :eek:

Just not as nice as those are.

[blkjkoknhrt]

Wow I learned and relearned from all your excellent posts! No wonder this is the best forum I've ever found.

I keep 2 milksnakes, an albino honduran and an Apricot Pueblan . They're not "cuddly", but pretty secretive yet active. For cuddly stick with pythons and boas

[presspirate]

this should help you for a cage.How to build 4x2 enclosure for $100 - Redtailboa.net (http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/how-tos-tutorials/28742-how-build-4x2-enclosure-100-a.html) that would be a good cage size for you
Makes me wish I still worked for a cabinet maker. Free materials and a whole new client base. Would have taken me all of a half an hour to whip up about 3 of those at the time. :no:

[Nafun]

The mostly white one is a piebald

[Freebody]

ya they are so easy to build and all stacked up they look real sharp and clean. i made mine 4'x4' by 30" tall and my 2 new snakes im waiting for will have a 2x2x4 feet tall cage untill they are older than ill build a second tank for the male and stack them both on my 4x4 one. nice and clean setup.i may even build another 4x4x4' and put a sliding divider in the centre for later, when i need to seperate for after copulation at breeding, then remove the devider for the time which they can live together. still not sure yet but i think thats the way i will go.

[Ohnoaghost]

Hm, well I'm not too much of a handy man lol, I don't really have any tools I can use to build something. I'm a 21 yr old girl that lives in a high rise in downtown toronto lol, I was hoping to just be able to buy everything and use like a tank of some kind? Wouldn't a 20 gal tank work for a ball python? I think that is what i've finally decided to get btw lol. I've been looking up different python colors and stuff :) they're pretty. Does anyone know of any website that maybe sells like snake kits? Like everything i would need to get to become a snake owner? :)

[Nafun]

Alright. Here's the quick and dirty on enclosures. It's not absolute, but it's a good rule of thumb.

Length of the enclosure should be at least 2/3 of the length of the snake. Length + width should at least equal the length of the snake.

I would say a 20L is a little on the small side. I would recommend either a 30L or a 40 breeder for an adult. Alternately, you can keep them in a tub. a 4' x 1' x 1' tub is less than 20 bucks, and will keep the humidity up well.

As to what you need and where to get it, places do sell kits. If you go into any pet store, you'll see all kinds of kits. These kits have three things in common. They include things you don't need, they exclude things you do need, and they're unbelievably over priced.

I get my reptile supplies from Reptile Supplies, Reptiles, Amphibians, Invertebrates, Cages, Feeders, and More (http://www.lllreptile.com), they ship worldwide, and their prices are pretty good.

Here's what you need.

Enclosure (with lid and a way to lock the lid)
Water Dish
Heat Source
Substrate
Thermometers
Hygrometer
Hides
Food

Enclosure - The rule of thumb is, as I stated before, a length + width equal to length of the adult snake. Males get 3-3.5 feet, females 4-5 feet. For enclosures you basically have four options.

Aquarium - Aquariums are the mid range as far as price and quality. You can generally find used aquariums on craigslist for $1/gallon or less. They are easy to secure, retain heat reasonably well, and offer you a good view of your snake. If you use an aquarium, you will need to get a screen top, and clips to hold it on.

Tubs - These are made by Sterilite or Rubbermaid. They are by far the cheapest enclosure solution, and the best at maintaining heat and humidity. To use one of these, you either need to get one with a locking lid, or secure the lid another way (I use bungee cords). Add ventilation by either drilling, or melting holes. Holes can be easily melted with a soldering iron. The down side of tubs is that even transparent ones offer a pretty poor view of your snake. They are also the least attractive.

Custom Enclosures - As already outlined by other people, custom enclosures can be made reasonably cheaply. You can build an enclosure to the exact dimensions needed for your snake. The down side of these cages is obvious, you have to design and build them yourself.

Purpose Built Enclosures - These are enclosures built specifically for reptiles. They are made by companies such as Boaphile, Vision, and Animal Plastics. These are the highest quality enclosures you can get. They look sharp, retain heat well, are designed for use with reptile heating, and generally are stackable. The downside of these is price. They are seldom found on the secondary market, and even a small purpose built enclosure (such as for a ball python) can run you well over $200.

A note on enclosures: When choosing an enclosure you should look at the psychology of the animal in question. Most reptiles, ball pythons in particular, are preyed upon from above. Large terrestrial predators, birds of prey, and humans attack from above. Because of this, cages that open from the front are preferable to cages that open from the top. Being able to approach your reptile from its front, rather than swooping in from above will decrease the chance of getting bit, while decreasing the amount of time required to tame.

Water Dish - This one is easy. Anything will work as long as it holds water, and is light enough that you can remove it for cleaning. The water dish should be large enough that the snake can fit entirely inside it, and deep enough that it can submerge. There are three basic types of water dishes, recycled, makeshift, and purpose built. Remember, for a water dish, it doesn't matter whether it is a well washed cool whip tub or a basin carved from a solid block of marble. As long as the dish is large enough, all that matters is how nice you want the dish to look versus how much money you want to spend.

Recycled - A cake pan you found at a garage sale, an empty butter dish, a pie pan, etc. These are simply items that will hold water and don't cost you anything. Make sure that whatever you use is well washed and won't rust, or leech chemicals into the water.

Makeshift - Something designed to hold water, but not designed to be a reptile bath. A good example of this is a dog bowl. A lot of people use these. They look nicer than a butter dish, or an old take out container, are dishwasher safe, and are nice and deep.

Purpose Built - These are made by companies like ZooMed, Zilla, Flukers, etc. They are designed specifically as reptile water dishes. Some are disguised as natural rock. Some have built in ramps. All are expensive. They look nicer than any other option, but have a couple of major drawbacks. They're made of resin and therefore unbelievably heavy. They are generally on the small side.

Heat Source - There are many ways to heat a snake enclosure, I couldn't possibly list them all, but I will list the most popular along with pros and cons and what types of enclosures they work best with. Regardless of heating method, heat should be applied preferentially to one side of the enclosure. This allows for a temperature gradient, which is required for snake health and well being. Without a temperature gradient, reptiles cannot thermoregulate (raise or lower their body temperature) and will die.

Heat Tape/Cable - Heat tape is the stuff you wrap around pipes to keep it from freezing. Heat cable is basically the guts of an electric blanket and purpose built for heating reptile enclosures. They are effectively the same thing. Heat cable works very well with tubs, and well insulated custom/purpose built enclosures.

Pros: Cheap. Low Wattage. Safe for use inside enclosure. Doesn't get hot enough to burn your snake.

Cons: Low heat output compared to other options.

Under Tank Heater (UTH) - These generally come in the form of a thin sheet of adhesive plastic with a cord coming out of it. You adhere them to the under side of your enclosure.

Pros: Low Power Consumption. Cheap.

Cons: Very low heat output, additional heating will usually be necessary, not safe for use inside enclosures, inefficient (they heat the enclosure, and whatever the enclosure is sitting on)

Infrared Heat Bulb - These are basically the same bulbs that you find in hotel bathrooms for heat, or in restaurants to keep food hot. If used they must be mounted in a ceramic socket with reflector hood. There must also be a barrier, such as a screen, or cover between the bulb and the enclosure. Failure to do so will result in severe burns, or death when your snake inevitably comes into contact with the bulb. The surface of these bulbs reaches temperatures in excess of 400 degrees! These work really well for aquariums (which have trouble maintaining heat), but cannot be used for tubs unless you want your house to burn down.

Pros: Produce a lot of heat. Inexpensive. Can be used at night unlike normal incandescent heat bulbs.

Cons: Casts a red glow over everything. Use a lot of power. Cannot be used with tubs.

Ceramic Heat Emitter - These are basically a heat bulb, without the bulb. They screw into a standard socket (again, use a ceramic socket with a reflector dome). They produce intense heat, and absolutely no light. Like the infrared heat bulbs, they must be guarded from contact with your snake as their surface gets over 400 degrees.

Pros: Efficient. No light. Lots of heat.

Cons: Less efficient than heat cable, expensive ($20 per bulb), cannot be used with tubs.

I recommend either heat cable, or a ceramic heat emitter, depending on your needs.

Substrate -There are more substrate options than you can possibly imagine. I will list the pros and cons of some of the popular ones, and list the ones that you should never use.

Never use these substrates! - These substrates present either a danger of either impaction or poisoning! Do NOT use them!

Sand
Gravel
Dirt
Pine Shavings
Cedar Chips
Corn Cob Bedding


In addition, if you use a loose substrate, you should always feed your snake in a different container to prevent accidental ingestion of substrate.

A few good substrates are: Coconut fiber/husk, Aspen bedding, Cypress mulch, Astroturf/outdoor carpet, newspaper

Coconut Fiber/Husk
Pros: Good at maintaining moisture. Attractive.
Cons: High moisture means high chance of mold. Difficult to clean. Expensive.

Aspen bedding
Pros: Very cheap.
Cons: Poor moisture retention. Not attractive.

Cypress Mulch
Pros: Cheap, Retains moisture well.
Cons: Dirty. Potentially contaminated with wood mites.

Astroturf/Outdoor carpet
Pros: Cheap, Reusable, Very easy to spot clean.
Cons: Not very attractive. Reptile cannot burrow.

Newspaper
Pros: Easy to clean (just toss soiled sheets). Free if you already buy a newspaper.
Cons: Not attractive. Reptile cannot burrow.

Thermometers - There are basically three options for thermometers. You can get several of the cheap dial ones, and place them strategically around the enclosure (hot side, cold side, basking area.) You can get an electronic one with one or more probes. Or you can get a laser thermometer. Get a laser thermometer. They're only like $25, and they will cover your thermometer needs for ALL of your reptiles. They are far more accurate than any other thermometer, and the only way to actually get the temperature of your snake's basking area. I also highly recommend a thermostat. A thermostat can be gotten for as little as $25 and will take the guesswork out of maintaining temperatures. You won't have to worry about your snake getting too hot, or too cold.

Hygrometer - There's not a lot of options here. You can get an electronic hygrometer at any home & garden store (Lowes, Menards, Do-It Best, Home Depot, etc) for about $10. Alternately you can get an analogue (dial) hygrometer. Do not get an analogue hygrometer. Period. Don't do it. Dial type hygrometers work by way of a spring attached to a filament. The filament is made of a material that contracts and stretches according to the relative humidity. However, the filament will lose its elasticity over time, causing it to be progressively inaccurate. This inaccuracy starts the moment they are manufactured, by the time you purchase it, it may be off by 40% or more!

Hides - Hides are like water dishes. They can be anything. I've been sitting here typing for like two hours, so I'm not going to bother giving examples of what you can use, just what qualities the hide should have. A hide should be small enough that the snake barely fits inside. The more walls of the hide that the snake can touch simultaneously, the more secure he will feel. Avoid anything that you cannot manually remove the snake from. Your snake will require two hides at a minimum; one on the hot side, and one on the cold side.

Food - Your new baby ball python should be able to take adult mice, or fuzzy/hopper rats. Prey size should be gradually increased as the snake grows. The diameter of the prey should be roughly equal to the widest part of the snake. An adult ball python will take medium to large rats. Prey can be offered frozen/thawed, freshly killed, or live. Only whole prey items should be offered. Generally rodents, or birds. Never offer wild caught food, it can carry parasites, and may have been exposed to poisons.

Frozen/Thawed - You purchase your rodents frozen, either from a pet store, or a rodent supplier. Thaw them in your refrigerator over night (large rats may require two days to thaw completely). Before feeding, seal the rodent in a plastic bag, and run under hot tap water for a few minutes. Never try to hand feed a rodent. Either drop it into the feeding tub/enclosure or offer it with feeding tongs. If the snake does not seem interested, grasp the rodent on the nape of the neck with tongs, and wiggle it in front of your snake. NEVER feed a rodent that hasn't been completely thawed!

Pros: Cheapest way to feed a snake, unless you breed your own. No risk of bites to your snake. You don't have to watch the rodent die.
Cons: Some snakes refuse frozen/thawed prey. Frozen rodents have a limited shelf life (one year with fur, 6 months without.).

Freshly Killed - Like frozen/thawed, rodents are offered dead. Unlike frozen/thawed, the rodents are humanely killed just before feeding. This is useful for snakes that refuse to take frozen/thawed, and also useful for people who breed their own rodents. The advantage over frozen/thawed is that the rodent can be "gut loaded" (fed nutritious food prior to being killed) for better nutrition, and will appear more like a live rodent to a finicky eater.

Pros: Can gut load. Useful for finicky eaters.
Cons: You have to kill the rodents yourself, this can be gruesome.

Live - There is a great amount of debate over whether you should feed live prey. I can answer all arguments for and against with one sentence. A dead rat cannot bite your snake. That being said, there are times when feeding live is necessary, and if done responsibly, it can be a perfectly safe way to feed your snake. The advantages are identical to freshly killed, except that some snakes will only accept live prey. The dangers are, of course, that the snake will be bitten or otherwise injured by the rat.

If you choose to feed live, please heed the following advice:

Never leave your snake unattended with a live rodent.
Always put some rodent food in the tub/enclosure with the snake.
Watch the snake carefully as it kills the rodent, be prepared to intervene if the rodent gets the upper hand.

A rat is more than capable of killing a snake many times its size. Rodents are preyed upon by snakes, they know how to defend themselves. They go for the spine and can severely injure or even kill a snake! By monitoring closely and making sure that the rodent has a food supply, you can minimize the chances of your snake getting injured.

Pros: Able to gutload. Some snakes only accept live.
Cons: Potential for injury to your snake.

[infernalis]

One thing I want to point out, if you have time and patience, ebay is a great source for hides, bowls and trinkets.

Many people get reptiles and fail, then sell off the stuff on ebay.

I would NEVER buy a used heater, hydrometer, thermometer or something critical this way.

A baked snake is no way to find out that your bargain heater or thermometer is malfunctioning.

[.: Laura :.]

Most definately listen to Wayne, I bought a barely used good sized glass viv on there for £20!

[Freebody]

you said your a 21 year old female, women have a way to get a man to jump through hoops and run into burning building at a moments notice, im sure you can get one build you a small cage or even a house to put that small cage in lol jk no offense im just in a good mood :). grats on picking the ball python i dont have one but they are nice a laze so you can chill and watch tv with them coiled on your lap for hours. as for tank bowls and decor if your good at arts and crafts heres a few videos maybe making your own would be part of the fun of herping for ya, im going to try my hand at it now that i watch a bunch of these videos although i suck at painting and designing, im great at building stuff, so i fugure ill have some really well put together ugly designs to post later lol YouTube - Build a waterfall -speed sculpting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5P7zZtPrKI) YouTube - Fake rock structure, for a lizard cage, beginner level (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnQ_9E3DSjk)

[Ohnoaghost]

Wow Nafun thank you! I'm printing out everything u said to keep on me while I'm shopping around haha! And thanx Infernalis, I did find ppl on craig's list giving away their whole snake set with tank and everything you mentioned and also the snake (a ball python female only 1 year old) for only $100! It seemed way too good to be true though so I'm gonna try to stay away from the used stuff for those items but I think I might've found a good 30 gal tank that someone is selling for $30 with a few hide outs included. I was thinking about getting that until I read what Nafun said about approaching my snake from the top of the cage so now I think I might try ebay for some kind of built enclosure.

My bf isn't all on board for me getting this snake yet lol, I'm trying to do it all on my own so that he can see how bad I want it but maybe I can convince him to build me something. He's concerned that when the snake gets bigger it will try to eat our dog LOL shes a chihuahua and I explained to him that this won't happen but hes still paranoid.

[Ohnoaghost]

LOL freebody I just now saw your post. Thats funny haha. Trust me I'm trying to get my bf on board to make him built me things hahaha. And actually yeah I love arts and crafts so if I can make cute things to put in my snakes cage I'm all for it haha. I plan on getting a girl snake so expect a lot of things to be pink, especially the water dish haha <3

[Ohnoaghost]

I say haha alot... >.<

[emseeKAY]

I would suggest doing a lot of reading, it's really the best way to do it, research, research, and more research, if you look around on the forums i'm quite sure you'll find some very useful info on just about anything lol, personally, i think a corn is the best in regards to a first snake, they're usually quite easy going and you can get some variation in the patterns and morphs. BP's do require more maintenance and care than corns and kings, and can be very picky when it comes to food, i don't know how many threads i've seen on here that say "help BP won't eat!". Not to dissuade you from purchasing one, but to be prepared, remember that these guys do live quite long lives and i usually end up inconveniencing others just because i'm picky on my husbandry and whatnot. Sorry for the rant! good luck! and happy hunting for a new friend!

[emseeKAY]

also, where are you from in Canada? lol if you don't mind me asking

[Ohnoaghost]

Toronto, ON :) You're from oshawa huh? Know any good BP breeders in our area?

[Ohnoaghost]

oh noez, Nafun that site you gave me to look up everything I need for the snake only ships in the US! thats sucks they had SUCH good prices too! :(

[Nafun]

International shipping policies (http://lllreptile.com/store/policies/international)

says there they ship everything but animals and aerosols world wide.

[Freebody]

this guy is in canada i got my retic from him, Hes one hell of a breeder!! Henry Piorun Reptiles-Canadian Reptile Breeder (http://www.a1pythons.com/)

[Will0W783]

Ohnoaghost, a baby ball python will do fine in a 20-gallon until he's about a year to a year and a half old. At that point he should be moved up to a larger tank. A 30- to -40-gallon breeder style (wider and lower) tank is fine for an adult ball python. If you want to build your own cage, a good rule of thumb is that the length + width of the cage should equal the length of the snake for lazier species and the length should equal the snake's length for more active species. For example, a 5 food adult ball python is fine in a 3-foot x 2-foot cage.