Small and arboreal?

[Grimleo]

Just wondering...Since I have a 45x45x60cm(18x18x24inch) tall viv that's empty since I moved a few of my lizards to a new tank, I was wondering if there are any sort of snakes that might like this enclosure? Possibly throughout it's life(without upgrading). I know if I get a BABY carpet I might want to keep him in this until he's big enough for a 40 and so on. Upgrading isn't exactly a problem but I was just wondering if there are any snakes that would fit perfectly. Other than a corn or ball, something more uncommon?

I have so many lizards that I should start picking up a few snakes hu ;P Just thinking about it and would like some suggestions if I can get any. Thanks for reading :)

[.: Laura :.]

A lovely lil garter would be fine in there for at least a year :D

[Grimleo]

Very true :D Maybe Wayne can help me pick out a good starter garter(ha)

[.: Laura :.]

Lol yes Wayne is definately the guy for garters :D nosey little things they are too, I'll be sitting on the sofa minding my own buisness, glance over at Lola's viv to find her doing this at me ---> :eek:

[Grimleo]

Hahaha :D Maybe it's her way of telling you she wants out XP

[infernalis]

Yes Garter snakes are climbers if they have the room to do it.

[marvelfreak]

Kenyan sand boa

[Nafun]

rough/smooth green snake.

[infernalis]

rough/smooth green snake.


Advanced keepers recommended... These do not fare well in captivity without a lot of fiddling around to get it right.

[ineedsoap16]

They are a bite nippy but Amazon tree Boas are wonderful arboreals. They are moderetly priced and come in a fountain of different colors.

[Will0W783]

You can keep an Amazon tree boa in there, or a green tree python or an emerald tree boa. Arboreals do not move that much, so they require less space than a comparatively sized ground snake. I used to keep my GTPs and ETBs in those type of tanks. Now I have a massive, tall custom set-up, but one can live in such a tank.

[Grimleo]

Thanks guys!

I do have a couple of KSBs and I have read a thread about green snakes(thanks wayne lol) and I don't think I want to go there just yet. I really do like the idea of an ETB or GTP...I have always looked at them at a distance, though. I think it's because they are pretty expensive, or so I think. :O

Anyway, any good info on a GTP or ETB? Other than the basics, humidity and a good perch?

Expo in a week I can't wait :D

[Lankyrob]

Our GTP will be living in a similar size viv when it comes - it is our most expensive purchase in terms of livestock (£600) but is also the most beautiful and therefore worth it imo!!

[percey39]

haha thats crazy. For a pure australian native gtp over your looking at $2500-3500 aussie dollars for a juvie and $4000-5000 for an adult

[Jenn_06]

if you really want a GTP get the book "The more Complete Chondro" it has everything you need to know about GTP.

If you get a baby you just need to have a small tub with a plastic clothes hangers for a perch, and paper towles and heat...

GTP are coming down on price but they could be WC and come with parasites so yeah you got a GTP for 200 but you are going to pay 100 or more on vet bills. I would try to find a good breeder, i seen some for like 325 from a guy on youtube.

sorry dont know anything about ETB

[Will0W783]

Yes, get the book "The More Complete Chondro". You cannot go wrong with that reference. It's a wonderful book. As for whether to get a GTP or an ETB, care is pretty much the same for both, but literature says GTPs tend to tolerate lapses in perfect husbandry a bit better than ETBs. However, I have 3 ETBs and 2 GTPs and my emeralds are far more bullet-proof. I have never had shed problems, except for one time when my misting system broke and I didn't notice it until the evening. My emeralds poop well and are active and bright-eyed and happy. Emeralds (ETBs) do tend to be less active than GTPs and so can have a smaller enclosure per size of the snake. People say emeralds are very aggressive, but mine are tamer than my GTPs. My 3 emeralds are all LTCs, but captive bred are better if you can find and afford them. However, properly established LTC specimens that have been treated for parasites internal and external are usually just fine.
The best perches I have found for either species are 'scorched' PVC pipe perches. They are not porous like wood so they don't harbor parasites or mold, and they are not slippery once treated. What you do is cut the pipe to appropriate length for your cage (you want a diameter that will cause the snake to coil around it and have its front and back coils just touching) and then you get an acetylene torch going. Clamp a wrench on either end of the pipe and wave it through the flame of the torch until you see it turning black and brown. It will smell awful, but will become slightly malleable. While it's hot you can twist it, crimp it, bend it, whatever you want to do. It should have a brown, crusty look to it as well. When it's got the shape and such that you want, dunk it in a bucket of cool water. Finally, scrub it down with dish soap and a brillo pad to get the residue off and it should end up looking quite a lot like a fake branch. The texturing helps them hold onto it and it looks good and is quite easy to clean. If you google scorched PVC snake perch you can find a good how-to video.

[Grimleo]

Awesome, guys. Thanks a lot. I am wondering if they will have this book at the expo? If they do then I could read up on them and see if I could actually get one of these guys. The only problem I have is the cost of them I think x.x

I think the scorched pvc is a great idea :D Thanks Willow. I might use that instead if it works very well. I do have a bunch of long bamboo pieces that I could cut to size and use and I was thinking about that before the pvc idea o.o

[Lankyrob]

We got the book off Ebay - is DEFINITELY worth the cost - very very intersteing book

[ineedsoap16]

Sorry not to get of topic, Kim, You have ETB's and GTP's (I have coveted both for soooo long) I have ATB's, they can be a bit nasty (sometimes it seems downright evil)(but sooo pretty), but I have heard such horror stories about ETB's. Are they really that much more easy going than ATB's?

[Will0W783]

Mine are. I have an ATB and he is handleable, but you have to hold him at arm's length. I thought I was just incredibly lucky with my ETBs at first, but I have talked to a handful of other people who have ETBs and every one of them can handle their snakes. I have yet to meet a really nasty ETB, other than very fresh imports, which I do not deal with at all. But I have also seen pretty tame ATBs. It all comes down to the snake's individual temperament, its environment, and how you keep it and handle it. All of my snakes are fed in their home cages so that has nothing to do with it. I move slowly around my arboreals, and you must remember to always approach from underneath the snake. In the wild, their only real predators are birds of prey and they attack from above, so the snakes naturally are wary of things bearing down on them. If you lift the perch from underneath the snake, or slowly put your hand up to cup its coils underneath, you have a much better chance of a pleasant interaction.
But the general consensus, from people who actually keep them, seems to be that ETBs are tamer than ATBs. Funny, I've seen far more nasty aggressive GTPs than ETBs...

[percey39]

Chondro's are not a good snake to get if you are inexperienced as they are very very finiky and go off food extremely easy. They require very specific conditions with their heat and humidity. If these are not met they get RI at the drop of a hat.
Also this species is extremely lazy looking as they do not move very much at all.
Please read very heavily about this species before getting one as they are hard work at the start and a lot of people have them die due to this.
I personally strongly recommend choosing another species that still has high humidity needs but allows more for your mistakes. As i worry you will run into major problems with this species.

[Grimleo]

Thanks for your input Percey. I do realize it would take a lot of work for one of these guys and unless I am lucky enough to find the book (that was suggested) at the expo then I doubt I will have one of these gorgeous snakes any time soon. Still looking into it but I am also researching other kinds of snakes as well. Thanks for everyone's help(once again) I appreciate it :D

Anyway I went camping this weekend and I happened upon two really pretty (common?)garter snakes by a creek. They were both in great shape and the larger one was spotless while the other had a few scars on him. One of these guys would be a great pet I think but I don't really like taking animals straight from the wild all too often. x.x

[Will0W783]

Chondros are not beginner snakes for sure, but they are not out of reach of most people, as long as you take the time and money to set them up properly. I do think they are much more finicky than emerald tree boas though. I have far more issues with my GTPs.

[ineedsoap16]

Once you catch the arboreal bug, it"s all over. Good luck.

[percey39]

If you have kept snakes that also need the higher humidity and stable heat gradients, then sure go for it. Just make sure you have all the money to buy everything they need, if you cant outlay the full amount which is well over $1000 us dollars then do not buy this snake. These are a higher end snake imho and should be treated as such. Also alot will not drink from water bowls and will only drink from direct misting on them or off the leaves or walls.

[infernalis]

May I recommend the greater Chinese green snake???

http://www.reptard.info/edits/Cyclophiops.jpg

http://www.reptard.info/edits/cyclophiopsM.jpg

http://www.reptard.info/edits/Dewie.jpg

http://www.reptard.info/edits/peekin.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.us/stump/shedewie.jpg

[Grimleo]

Thanks again Percey.

I do have mostly arboreal and tropical animals, so I think I've already caught the bug. LOL. Half of my normal glass aquariums and vivs are turned on their side just to provide more climbing room. xD

Anyway, I am very good with the tropical ones. I have some very specific setups for each and every one of them. Even if I don't have any tropical snakes(yet, perhaps), I at least have some experience with the different animals that live in close to the same conditions. I also make sure I have EVERYTHING I need for my animals before I get them. The only problem I ever run into(or ever HAVE run into) is improper care and/or sickness from previous owners. My beardies were in very bad shape when I got them and finding and fixing each and every sickness and problem that they had was the hardest part. Even a few animals of mine had been wild caught and I have had to treat abscesses, infections, parasites, and even fungi. x.x

[Grimleo]

And thanks Wayne :D I read a thread about these guys and I was wondering if you'd had any success with anything other than feeding nightcrawlers? xD