Should Herpers be licensed??

[Lankyrob]

Just a thought - I read this post on another forum -

" I have 1 3yr old corn, 2 2yr old corns and 2 1yr old corns in the same tank. I just noticed one of them laying eggs what should i do":Wow::crazy2::no:

After giving the idiot a bollocking i got to thinking that maybe some sort of exam based license would be a good idea?

Interested in your thoughts.........

[BlindOne]

I'd support licensing for giant boids, similar to our venomous licensing here in FL, instead of the ban that was enacted.

[infernalis]

I don't think it would fly.....

for one, drivers need licensing, yet they run over other people every day.

[Nafun]

I support licensing (like dog licensing) and mandatory rfid tagging of giants and venomous.

If there's a 16 foot python eating neighborhood pets, I think they should know who to blame.

[Jenn_06]

i like the idea, i dont mind having one for my burm and retics, but not everyone is going to like the idea or fellow the law to get one...you cant make people do things.

[dragunov.762]

licensed no maybe a competency test but i feel like that about most things in live, like having children, there should be a mandatory test and if you fail no kids for you. some thing for snakes.

[Feebo]

After "Giving the idiot a bollocking"? ??

[emseeKAY]

RFID is the way to go imo, but who's going to pay for it? and what if the species is small or too small to be chipped at the time? who's to say they will get their animal chipped later? theres obviously a lot of debate about this topic, but at least make en effort right?

[Lankyrob]

After "Giving the idiot a bollocking"? ??

Well - keeping 5 snakes of differing ages/sizes/sex's in the same tank with no thought that they might breed? Got to be kinda stupid imo.

He has been asked what size teh "tank" is that they are in - personally i am hoping its huge but........

[Feebo]

No offence mate really, but keeping more than a single male in one enclosure isn`t much different as far as not taking consequences into consideration, and I don`t remember anyone giving you a "bollocking" when you decided not to listen anyone`s advise? As I say, no offence, I`m not trying to be horrible or anything but......

[percey39]

We have a license system here, but it also fails as all you have to do in victoria is pay the money and you can own olives, scrubs, bhp's and nearly all the rest of the pythons. As for the advanced license ( to own vens and gtp, womas and the likes ) all you do is pay the extra $100 a year and be 18 years old. This license allows anyone at 18 being able to go out and buy an inland taipan or eastern brown. To me this puts a lot of pressure on the sellers of the snakes as you are the one who will be blamed when a new kid dies by venomous snake bite. I already go over everyone thoroughly but some people can talk the talk and look a lot older. This presents the problem of only selling deadly animals to extremely limited people, which in turn means less money for breeders. You can do a brief check on their abilities, but i refuse to sell from my house which destroy's any chance i personally have at a self test.
All in all licenses are useless without mandatory testing and checkup's by competent people from your authorities and the likely hood of that happening is zero.

[Feebo]

Yeeeeah unfortunatly that`s the way it is isn`t it. Governments make such a pigs arse of things any I`m glad they don`t really have much of an involvment in our hobby really, once they start they`ll be taxing the piss out of us left right and centre anyway. Saying that though, I once had a friend who kept raptors, he had buzzards I think it was. He was inspected yearly and had to have all sorts of inspections of facilities and what not before he could kep them so there is something similar already done, in this country at least. It would be nice to not have to read about people buying snakes they can`t look after and people keeping exotics in rediculous conditions. If a licence were to be imposed I think I`d like to see some sort of structure that prevents ownership of mid level snakes until some lower level animals had been kept for a period of time, trainers if you will, same with going from mid to higher levels. Buying a Cornsnake, owning it for a month and then getting bored with it and thinking you`re ready for a Blood python just because "the Corn snake seemed fine" is something I`d like to see controlled amoung other things but as everyone is saying, it`s just not going to happen is it and it`s probably for the best going on the mess governments make of things anyway.....

[Lankyrob]

No offence mate really, but keeping more than a single male in one enclosure isn`t much different as far as not taking consequences into consideration, and I don`t remember anyone giving you a "bollocking" when you decided not to listen anyone`s advise? As I say, no offence, I`m not trying to be horrible or anything but......

I hear what your saying and no offence taken. However, i don't mix snakes of differing ages/sizes/sex's together that is just asking for trouble imo.

Have got further info about the "housing" for these snakes today - they are in a 4ft tank giving approx 16sq ft of space for the 5 snakes!!

[Feebo]

I`m glad no offence is taken :) Different ages doesn`t really matter as long as there are no neonates in with adults or anything it`s really not a biggy. A bit silly yes, I can see that the person hasn`t even considered what would happen of course, but that wasn`t my point. In this case space is FAR less an issue than the fact he might have multiple males in with females, that`s the main issue, more than one male in an enclosure. Space wise, yeah you wouldn`t really be able to tell who`s doing what poo and if one gets an infectious disease they all get it but a four foot tank with five Corns in it doesn`t shock me, it`s not the best idea but I`d be more worried about there being multiple males before I was concerned about anything else, and yes, there is a small list of things to be concerned about. If they were all females and it wasn`t a permenant solution I would see no huge problem. Temporarely anyway. As you know, I`m happy to keep a couple of females together, just not males because I`ve seen what happens when you do that. Regardless of what I think, I can`t say I`d ever "Bollock" anyone for something I consider to be wrong when I could so easily be verbally attacked myself for being happy to keep two females together which plenty of people disagree with. My point is, nice forums are hard to find because so many people are willing to verbally attack others for "doing it wrong" Although it does seem this person hasn`t cared enough or been intelligent enough to have thought things through at all, "Bollocking" people for not doing things the way you would do things just leads forums full of proper ogres that all argue and attack each other all the time. I`d just about given up looking for a forum for that reason when I stumbled across this one which is pretty much full of gentlemen (With the odd exception I`ll gentlemanly skirt over) That was my point said in a little more detail now I know I`m not upsetting anyone :)

[infernalis]

. My point is, nice forums are hard to find because so many people are willing to verbally attack others for "doing it wrong" Although it does seem this person hasn`t cared enough or been intelligent enough to have thought things through at all, "Bollocking" people for not doing things the way you would do things just leads forums full of proper ogres that all argue and attack each other all the time. I`d just about given up looking for a forum for that reason when I stumbled across this one which is pretty much full of gentlemen (With the odd exception I`ll gentlemanly skirt over) That was my point said in a little more detail now I know I`m not upsetting anyone :)


Know exactly what you mean, Just yesterday a couple people tried to engage me into a flame war over body piercings! on a popular UK forum.

The people here make the job of moderator seem effortless and easy.

[C.Phillips]

I think it should because I read in a readers digest about this couple who had an 8 foot burm and it got out one night and they put it back in its cage then they woke up the next morning and it had gotten out again and strangled their 2 year old daughter both were prosecuted for 3rd degree murder and involuntary manslaughter how ever reading the article more in dept. It was 100% their fault there terrariums top was a quilt closed mined to the cage?? how irresponsible was that. They clearly neglected the responsibility's on owning a Giant python or any and now they are talking about banning the ownership of giants since they have killed 12 people since 1980. However every case i have heard of has been do to neglect or them simply not feeding or handling them right. When Dogs Kill more people in one year than Giants have in 30.

[Lankyrob]

Unfortunately on the "other" forum without shouting and making a fuss noone seems to take any notice - i seem to find that my posts on there tho few and far between are more aggressive just purely to get my voice heard - hence why i rarely post there, most of the time i don't even bother checking there as it just seems to make my blood boil.

It's so much nicer here where we can have proper mature discussions about sensitive points where passions can run high but still people are, in the main, polite about making their point.

Thinking about it now it's probably worthwhile cancelling my membership over there and just chilling out with the grown ups here!!!

Hopefully Feebs we know each other well enough to be able to disagree without any issues!!!

Am in need of a coffee so may have to pop in on you soon (and maybe check out your babies!!).

[Feebo]

Yes we do and yes of course you can ;D

[Pythonian]

Most definitly they should be licensed (granted I'm a south Floridian.. so I've seen it all). But not all reptiles are hard to care for or dangerous. BUT there are some serious repercussions for poor handling and parenting. Which leads to Weird reptile morphs in the wild, which could lead to health problems (without careful monitoring of breeding and results) as well as, not only hurting that species population safety due to these problems, but also compromising other species in the already developed ecosystem.
The licensing should require a class given for basic reptile care. Then tags for Boids, Venomous, and Rare breeds... I think this will end the "MOMMY I WANT A SNAKE!!!" "okay.. here's a burmese python... now go play in traffic"...

[Feebo]

Oh wouldn`t THAT be nice!! Bugs the piss out of me to see people doing that and you do see it faaar too often... Dude you AV is ace lol :)

[presspirate]

I think this will end the "MOMMY I WANT A SNAKE!!!" "okay.. here's a burmese python... now go play in traffic"...

That's funny. argues for parental licensing as well. For the record I am in favor of both. Licensing with a class on proper husbandry seems to be the way to go.

[shaunyboy]

Know exactly what you mean, Just yesterday a couple people tried to engage me into a flame war over body piercings! on a popular UK forum.

The people here make the job of moderator seem effortless and easy.


the uk forum your talking about is full of to**ers mate.

imo there are a select few with a lot of hands on experience and as a result are very knowledgable.instead of using said knowledge to do good they tend to use it to belittle and embaress folk.

that said there are a few who will pull out all the stops to help you with a problem.

i have mixed feelings about that forum as yes you can learn a fair bit from it but also ive seen folk scared to ask questions for fear of being flamed.

only last week i pulled a guy who was flaming a 15 year old girl for asking a few very newbie questions about her kingsnake.the poor girl was concerned about her snake.some idiot told her she was ********.these types really make my blood boil.

the mods on that forum are a bloody disgrace.they allow people to falsely advertise things.then when others post to say thats not the snake you say it is.they are the ones who get an infraction against them.

theres a lot of google warriors on it as well.....!!!

rant over

some kind of licencing would be good but sadly there are intelligent folk who would pass the test and can still be idiotic over things.

my other rant over

cheers shaun

[Feebo]

I`m intregued as to what they called this girl now! lol All those stars don`t tell me much lol :)

[BrandyMom2aFew]

/rant

I can certainly understand frustration about stuff like this; I am a proud owner of two pit mixes. They are a great dog and amazing family animals but just like anything else if you are irresponsible with them things can and usually do go wrong. Then people look at responsible owners and call us crazy.

/rant

[Lankyrob]

I am a great believer in that 99% of the time there are not bad animals but bad owners - i am willing to admit that occasionally you get a "bad" (aggressive, vicious etc) animal that with all the care in the world would always turn out that way.

[Pythonian]

/rant

I can certainly understand frustration about stuff like this; I am a proud owner of two pit mixes. They are a great dog and amazing family animals but just like anything else if you are irresponsible with them things can and usually do go wrong. Then people look at responsible owners and call us crazy.

/rant

I couldn't agree more.... but the problem is, it's much easier to blame the pets, then it is to blame the owners. So if you abuse your pit (not saying you are waht so ever..) then the pit attacks a child because it's lack of care and training.. that Dog is dying... the owner is getting a fine (maybe)...
Therefore if the owner is checked out... licensed.. and under responsibilities and somewhat regulated, less pits will die.. less people attacked.. less abused animals... it's a win win...Yes, less people will own pits (or pythons in this case) ... but those are the people that maybe should not be owning them in the first place..

[Pythonian]

Want to add one more thing... I was at the mall about a year ago and saw this girl... MAYBE 16 years old with a snake.. running around with it clinging to her hand as she's pumping her arms running.. I stop her and asked to see the snake... It's a baby Burm..... (that's why I said the example in my first post) ... her parents bought it for her 2-3 days ago... When asked what kind it was, she didn't know... I told her and she said "oh yea.. a python"...:no:
I'll be honest... Herpers should WANT these laws passed... because It's going to end up being (a) Every herper needs a license or (b) .. Most snakes will be illegal to Breed, own, or transport... So I'd rather Push for A .. then risk getting B.

[BrandyMom2aFew]

I definitely agree that it almost always gets pinned on the animal by way of death and the owner gets a slap on the wrist.

I am a regular volunteer for a for a bunch of animal rescues and routinely foster dogs and usually end up with pits or mixes for a few different reasons; I have a child under 5, I have other dogs, my house has visitors of all types at least once a day and there are plenty of cats in my neighborhood to socialize with.

So I am aware of stereotypes and get a lot of flack from uneducated people for walking around my neighborhood with a pit and a small child!

So to go back to snakes I really wish people were more educated. It would make me a lot happier.

[Pythonian]

Definitly.. Education will solve a lot of problems... if you have any very friendly..herps.. offer to do a small reptile 'show' at local petstores.... setup a table with printouts of favorite foods.. caresheets... etc. right by the reptiles... I do that fairly often.. stores love me because I give them a lot of sales... and I feel good because sometimes i say to parents, or kids... buy a book.. read it.. understand waht you're getting into... for your safety and the animals.. they'll come back a week later, and decide on a smaller herp... or i'll see them with a cart full of good reptile keeper gear.. picking out their new pet.
To me... 2-3 hours of my time.. standing around... if I save or help 1 reptile a day .. it was worth my time.

[percey39]

Thats good to hear pythonian and brandymom2afew. I really love pits but they are illegal here now due completely to the things you guys are talking about. I was very upset when they did ban them as i was in the process of setting up my yard for one. Educating people at petshops is great except in all honesty the petshop workers SHOULD be doing it. We have far too many stores here that are just in it to make a quick buck and dont care about their buyers or the effects on the hobby by what they are doing.

Licensing is a necessity for you guys, purely because if florida can pass their laws then so can the rest of your states. I would hate to see the big guy's completely banned over there as i really love seeing pics of them and its tempting me ever so more to move over to california!! I just need the right job opportunity to arise and i will be coming over i think.

[Pythonian]

Thats good to hear pythonian and brandymom2afew. I really love pits but they are illegal here now due completely to the things you guys are talking about. I was very upset when they did ban them as i was in the process of setting up my yard for one. Educating people at petshops is great except in all honesty the petshop workers SHOULD be doing it. We have far too many stores here that are just in it to make a quick buck and dont care about their buyers or the effects on the hobby by what they are doing.

Licensing is a necessity for you guys, purely because if florida can pass their laws then so can the rest of your states. I would hate to see the big guy's completely banned over there as i really love seeing pics of them and its tempting me ever so more to move over to california!! I just need the right job opportunity to arise and i will be coming over i think.

The stores are a major part of it as well.. my fiance works at Petco [GASP]... but she does a good job informing the customers about proper care etc. It really is a shame... but the same thing goes for anything....If you go to car dealership only 10% of the people there actually know what they're doing... but if you go to a person who loves cars passionately.. he will tell you anything and everything.

[Lankyrob]

Definitly.. Education will solve a lot of problems... if you have any very friendly..herps.. offer to do a small reptile 'show' at local petstores.... setup a table with printouts of favorite foods.. caresheets... etc. right by the reptiles... I do that fairly often.. stores love me because I give them a lot of sales... and I feel good because sometimes i say to parents, or kids... buy a book.. read it.. understand waht you're getting into... for your safety and the animals.. they'll come back a week later, and decide on a smaller herp... or i'll see them with a cart full of good reptile keeper gear.. picking out their new pet.
To me... 2-3 hours of my time.. standing around... if I save or help 1 reptile a day .. it was worth my time.

We do this at local schools and nursery's - take our young corns and intriduce them to the kids and then toward the end show them the adult. We always invite parents to attend the "show" too and you can see them thinking "aw that baby corn would be great pet for my child" then you show the 5footer and they reconsider!

Education and communication is the key to all of it.

[percey39]

The stores are a major part of it as well.. my fiance works at Petco [GASP]... but she does a good job informing the customers about proper care etc. It really is a shame... but the same thing goes for anything....If you go to car dealership only 10% of the people there actually know what they're doing... but if you go to a person who loves cars passionately.. he will tell you anything and everything.

I understand what your saying fully, but i still figure that its imperitive to people with sound knowledge working at pet stores. Also there needs to be more demonstrators doing more government funded demo's. Most of the licensed demonstrators will have very very sound knowledge of local reps as well as any available reptiles. I only say most of them as i have seen a few that dont know very much and seen one guy get tagged by one of his eastern brown snakes.
This is a big issue here and i would imagine even more so over there. People are blowing things out of proportion and the media love scaremongering.

[Nafun]

I would love to be able to educate people on herps. I think I'll look into it in a few years when Iggy is full grown. Most pet stores don't carry snakes that get huge, but they all carry green iguanas, regardless of the fact that if properly cared for they'll get to 2 meters.

[Pythonian]

I would love to be able to educate people on herps. I think I'll look into it in a few years when Iggy is full grown. Most pet stores don't carry snakes that get huge, but they all carry green iguanas, regardless of the fact that if properly cared for they'll get to 2 meters.

sad thing is.. Iguana's should most definitely not be easily accessible to nagging, parent-bugging rugrats... They will realize Iguana's can get moody "Iggy doesn't want to play with me!!" :( and Iggy dies... Sorry... kinda cold I know, but when a kid gets a dog or cat... the parents end up taking care of it.. when a kid gets a herp.. nobody takes care of it.. and it bothers me.