Balls to Boas

[gonhuntun]

Hi all. Had a Ball Python for over a year. Just got my first RTB. I'm amazed at the beauty of this animal. Shes supposed to be 2 yrs. old and shes 33 in. long. She seems a little thin to me but Im new to boas. Shes active, friendly and eats well but I think the mice that came with are too small and actually need to upgrade to rats. If so what size rats? Thanks in advance for any help.

[infernalis]

small to medium rats should work fine.

As a rule of thumb, I never feed a rat that is so big that the snake has to struggle too much to swallow it.

[Jenn_06]

what size mice did it come with, can you post a pic of the snake by a coke can or something so we can see the size of the snake.

[infernalis]

what size mice did it come with, can you post a pic of the snake by a coke can or something so we can see the size of the snake.


Very good post!

[bladeblaster]

what size mice did it come with, can you post a pic of the snake by a coke can or something so we can see the size of the snake.

agreed.

Personally with boas I only feed prey that is slighty larger than the mid body girth. Boas are much healthier slow grown IMO.

[gonhuntun]

http://www.redtailboas.com/forum/members/gonhuntun-albums-my-new-girl-picture5383-boa10.jpg

http://www.redtailboas.com/forum/members/gonhuntun-albums-my-new-girl-picture5381-boa2.jpg

[infernalis]

agreed.

Personally with boas I only feed prey that is slighty larger than the mid body girth. Boas are much healthier slow grown IMO.


I agree that this is true with most any snake.

Breeders will sometimes "power feed" so they can get babies quicker, I don't think that is in the animals best interest.

[bladeblaster]

http://www.redtailboas.com/forum/members/gonhuntun-albums-my-new-girl-picture5383-boa10.jpg

http://www.redtailboas.com/forum/members/gonhuntun-albums-my-new-girl-picture5381-boa2.jpg

Hard to get a good idea of scale from those pics, but I would say small rat weaners probably. It doesn't look thin to me either, looks in good condition.

I agree that this is true with most any snake.

Breeders will sometimes "power feed" so they can get babies quicker, I don't think that is in the animals best interest.

Very true mate.

[Lankyrob]

Don't own a boa myself but from the ones i have seen/handled i would say that Balls are much girthier in comparison - maybe this is why you are thinking its underweight?

[Jenn_06]

i will move to rats ASAP and get one thats one size up from the mouse, you dont want to really jump from a small mouse to a large rat.so feed it a weaned once a week then when you stop seeing a bump after it eats the weaned move up the small and so on. good luck you have a very nice BCI there.

oh and check your PM im going to send you a really good care sheet.

[Will0W783]

I would say small rats or large weaners should work. Different suppliers sometimes size their rats a tad differently, but I have found that rat weaners are usually about the size of mice. I would say it can handle a small rat (about the size of two mice). Of course, if you are feeding every week, a weaner may be fine. I feed my boids every other week. I grow them up slowly, as I've found it is better for them in the long run not to grow too quickly.
Your boa looks to be in great shape- beautiful colors and looks to be a good weight. Boas are much more slender-bodied than ball pythons. A pretty much fail-safe way to tell if any snake is underweight, regardless of body structure, is to look at the back and see if you can clearly see the spine. A small indentation where the spine lies is fine, but if you can see vertebrae or feel the spine sticking out if you run your finger down the snake's back, it needs to gain weight. If you can feel the spine, but also a good solid line of muscle above it, the snake is fine. Boas are susceptible to obesity, as people tend to overfeed them. I've seen too many fat and bloated adult boas. It's less common for youngsters to get fat as they just tend to go through growth spurts.

[gonhuntun]

Got a pic to show what she's eating. I told you she was active hehehe!http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae180/gonhuntun71/New%20baby%20girl/HPIM2915.jpghttp://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae180/gonhuntun71/New%20baby%20girl/HPIM2919.jpghttp://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae180/gonhuntun71/New%20baby%20girl/HPIM2917.jpg

[percey39]

I would go sub adult to small adult rats if it were me.
Wayne and blademaster, i have yet find any proof that powerfeeding causes any long term damage. I know there have been case where people have fed a stupid sized prey item and hurt the snake. As long as you slow them down around 18 months old they should be fine. I wont give you exact feeding routines, but one of my olive pythons is just on a year old and is close to 2.7m with a weight of 6.5kg. This snake is not overweight. Also his size is incredible considering the species average size for males is 2.8m-3.5m. I will be eagerly waiting to see if i have created a monster lol. I am also looking to get a hatchling scrub and do the same. God knows where a scrub might be at a year under this guy's feed routine. Give them plenty of heat in their hot spot and all is fine!!

[bladeblaster]

I would go sub adult to small adult rats if it were me.
Wayne and blademaster, i have yet find any proof that powerfeeding causes any long term damage. I know there have been case where people have fed a stupid sized prey item and hurt the snake. As long as you slow them down around 18 months old they should be fine. I wont give you exact feeding routines, but one of my olive pythons is just on a year old and is close to 2.7m with a weight of 6.5kg. This snake is not overweight. Also his size is incredible considering the species average size for males is 2.8m-3.5m. I will be eagerly waiting to see if i have created a monster lol. I am also looking to get a hatchling scrub and do the same. God knows where a scrub might be at a year under this guy's feed routine. Give them plenty of heat in their hot spot and all is fine!!

There is plentyof evidence that 'power feeding' does lead to reduced fertility, and that it puts a lot of strain on the snakes internal organs, especially the heart. There have also been studies carried out that clearly show an increased mortality rate in relatively young adults from liver failure cause by fatty liver deposits.

Its not the snakes short term health that is being damaged necessarily, more its chances of leading a long healthy life.

[percey39]

There is plentyof evidence that 'power feeding' does lead to reduced fertility, and that it puts a lot of strain on the snakes internal organs, especially the heart. There have also been studies carried out that clearly show an increased mortality rate in relatively young adults from liver failure cause by fatty liver deposits.

Its not the snakes short term health that is being damaged necessarily, more its chances of leading a long healthy life.

Could you please refer me to these findings i would be very interested indeed to the fertility rate. As i feed my baby snakes well lets say a lot and when i breed my older ones who were fed the same i have had a nearly 100% success rate with clutch sizes and breeding . I believe overfeeding when they reach an age of 18 months or older is when the damage can be done to the liver. Also if you continue to feed rats constantly you will have problems. Adult rats/xl or bigger have huge fat cells and you would be a hell of a lot better feeding chicks of the same size. There is more benifit for the snake with chicks and they absolutely love them!!

[bladeblaster]

Could you please refer me to these findings i would be very interested indeed to the fertility rate. As i feed my baby snakes well lets say a lot and when i breed my older ones who were fed the same i have had a nearly 100% success rate with clutch sizes and breeding . I believe overfeeding when they reach an age of 18 months or older is when the damage can be done to the liver. Also if you continue to feed rats constantly you will have problems. Adult rats/xl or bigger have huge fat cells and you would be a hell of a lot better feeding chicks of the same size. There is more benifit for the snake with chicks and they absolutely love them!!

A lot of the information on fertility issues has come from discussions with other breeders, however maybe this is just hearsay?

The information on fatty liver deposits I will have to try and find, I read a paper somewhere a while back that documented a 'power-feeding' experiment. However I am not sure at what age the fatty deposits were noted, it could have been older than 18 months.

Out of interest what is the oldest snake you have that has had this feeding regime as a baby?

What species do you feed this way?

[percey39]

I feed all my young anything from olives, scrubbies diamonds, bredli and jungles and a lot of my hot's a strong feeding routine. I have a python that is with me still and he is 9 years old and going strong. I also have friends that have 18 year old snakes that have my exact routines when they were young. All have told me to stick to this routine until 18 months old or very close to it as they have found this to be their limit ( in the case of gaining weight and becoming fat ) after this point hence the fatty livers and heart problems. These problems are found to be very common with most captive snakes any way as most people over feed when their snakes reach maturity. I have found in my own experiences that at 15-18 months growth rates drop even with continued feeding.
I also feed mine chicks very often so less fat, better health and diet variation as well.

[bladeblaster]

Interesting.

I do agree that a lot, probably even most, people over feed mature snakes. I also feed chicks and chicken to my snakes, I do like to give good diet variation, and I get them free which helps :)

I notice though that all of your snakes seem to be pythons, which TBH for the most part are far more active than Boas. I tend to feed my boas sparingly as they do put weight on very quickly.

Feeding regimes most definately vary from species to species, there is no one size fits all rule

I would be very interested to know your feeding regime for carpet pythons, I would be grateful if you could PM it to me.

[percey39]

We are not legally allowed to keep boa's over here. I have nearly identical regimes for hots as i do for pythons and will send you a pm about one of my olive feeding regimes over the past year

[bladeblaster]

We are not legally allowed to keep boa's over here. I have nearly identical regimes for hots as i do for pythons and will send you a pm about one of my olive feeding regimes over the past year

Yeah realise you can't keep boas, again most hots would be much more active than your average boa.

Thanks mate, look forward to reading it :freakedout:

[percey39]

I read somewhere that sydney university did a study to see the effects of power feeding and found their results to be inconclusive. I want to get a hold of the result's but cant find anyone who was involved or who has a copy. It would be quite interesting as they used a lot of species to see if any were more susceptible illness or obesity.

[slick_slider900]

There is plentyof evidence that 'power feeding' does lead to reduced fertility, and that it puts a lot of strain on the snakes internal organs, especially the heart. There have also been studies carried out that clearly show an increased mortality rate in relatively young adults from liver failure cause by fatty liver deposits.

Its not the snakes short term health that is being damaged necessarily, more its chances of leading a long healthy life.

It proven that if you power feed the snakes muscle mass will grow faster than the organs can. So you will get a snake that looks good on the outside put will have weak heart, lungs, kidneys and liver. So it is never a good idea to (power feed) for any extended period of time.

[the-kibagami]

the herp i got my snake from said that power feeding can make a snake food agressive just as starving a snake will they get used to eatting large amounts of prey and when the dont get it they get mean thinking food is becoming scarce. he warned me agenced power feeding