I want to get a reptile. Suggestions?

[Azzarth]

Hello everyone :)

As you read in the title, I want to get a reptile of some sort. I've never owned one before, but let me explain why I think I'm ready.

I have plenty of room in my home for the...container? Cage? Well you hopefully know what I mean. I have a very large aquarium tank, with rubber seals around the lid, and several small holes in the top. I took it to my local pet store and the person that examined it said it was escape-proof for any reptile they sold. So I have the habitat taken care of.

I have other pets in the house, (4 dogs and a cat) but they shouldn't be a concern because I have a large walk-in closet that I've cleared out to use for storing the new pet. Safety is also taken care of.

The pet store I mentioned earlier sells everything that is needed for reptile-care, including frozen pre-killed mice in case I decide on a snake.

I have money that I've saved for a while just for this purpose, so I'll be able to get everything the new pet needs to live healthily and comfortably.


I think I'm pretty much ready to get a new pet, but I was wanting some suggestions on any varieties that are good for beginners. I've read lots online, but you all are real pet owners, so i want your real input before making my choice.

Thanks in advance for all the help everyone :freakedout:

[infernalis]

http://www.thamfriends.com/mat.jpg

I would recommend either a garter snake or corn snake as a first time pet reptile.

Garter snakes remain rather small with 18-20 inches being about the largest to expect.

(PM me if that is your choice, I can set you up with a captive bred captive born disease free animal with nice manners)

Corn snakes are also well known first time pet snakes, and are widely available.

[Azzarth]

Thanks for the input Infernalis, Ill keep your Garter in mind. I've had my eye on the corn snakes at Pet Cove for a while, they have some really colorful varieties, all yellow and orange-ish.

[Aaron_S]

I would agree with the corn snake or garter. If I were you though I would go do more research after you've chosen the species.

[infernalis]

I would agree with the corn snake or garter. If I were you though I would go do more research after you've chosen the species.


And keep those questions flowing ;)

anyone here is usually happy to help.

[infernalis]

Thanks for the input Infernalis, Ill keep your Garter in mind. I've had my eye on the corn snakes at Pet Cove for a while, they have some really colorful varieties, all yellow and orange-ish.

I can do that with garters too, but they get expensive when you want color morphs.

http://www.thamfriends.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=69&pictureid=1357

[Azzarth]

I would agree with the corn snake or garter. If I were you though I would go do more research after you've chosen the species.

Yeah, you can never learn enough about your pet.

What is the average length of mature corn and garter snakes? I don't want to get anything too overwhelmingly large, something around 2-3 feet to start is good, right?

is there anything special that they need in a habitat? Do corn snakes need corn?:confused:


And omg Infernalis, that snake looks amazing! I would love to have one, but if they get expensive, I might want to wait and see if I am able to take care of snakes first.

[infernalis]

Corn snakes don't eat corn.

They got that name because the first settlers to the new world always found them in the corn fields and corn storage bins looking for mice to eat.

[infernalis]

I will post some pics of a good garter setup, my corn setup is just adequate, so I prefer others who spoil their corns to show off their setups.

and corn snakes can get 3-4 foot long no problem.


http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/thamnophis/82907-more-thamnophis-pictures-added.html

[Azzarth]

corn snakes can get 3-4 foot long no problem.

That sounds good. I don't want to get a snake that turns 10 feet long :elvis:

Is there a recommended gender for starter snakes? What kind of traits do the different genders have? I would prefer an active, but still friendly (docile?) snake.

[Azzarth]

Infernalis, how much would one of these cost?

"Axanthic (blue phase) Thamnophis Radix"

I absolutely love the black/blue combo, the picture of Sky made me smile :)

[Aaron_S]

If you're looking for active then corns, garters, kingsnakes are the way to go.

[infernalis]

baby snakes like that one are around $45 + shipping.

With the radix being far more relaxed and easy to handle, while the Puget (Sky) is a nippy species that bites a lot.

The Radix in general are very laid back and tolerate handling.

[Azzarth]

:O that's well within my price range! Thanks for all the quick responses everyone.

Is there any difference in gender traits? I'm assuming that males would be more colorful than females, to attract mates and such.

I don't think that Mom would like me having a nippy snake, just for the fact that most people have a ridiculous fear of them.

If you read in my first post, I have a 30 gallon aquarium with rubber seals on the edges, plexiglass lid with lots of tiny, tiny holes (less than 1/8") I could easily add a locking mechanism. Would that be sufficient for a Garter?

[infernalis]

Yes that would be plenty, most of mine are in 20 gallon tanks.

Gender wise, Males are a bit smaller than females, and females kept without a male present are likely to "throw jelly beans" meaning give birth to unfertilized eggs.

Temperaments are about the same.

[Azzarth]

Ok, so I would probably go for a male then.

What kind of stuff do they need in their habitat? I know they need a heat source for warmth, a place to crawl under, like a rock cave or something, some sort of bedding material, a water supply, a rough surface to shed on, and maybe some stuff to climb on. Did i get it all?

[infernalis]

Yes, but here is a little secret about garters, you really don't need a heat source, a basking lamp on one end is plenty.

Garter snakes can be found from Mexico to Alaska and all points in between, so they are able to do fine in a wide range of temperatures.

I don't use heaters on any of my tanks, and I have a lot of them.

Aspen shavings or coconut fiber or bark all work well for garters.

If you use textured water bowls or rough hides, they can shed just fine. Pics soon

[Azzarth]

Thanks so much for all your help! As of now I want a "common name: Florida Blue" but I'm still looking :)

[Nafun]

They should have a water dish that is deep enough and big enough for them to submerge in, but small enough that it's easy for you to clean it. Snakes like to poo in their water.

They need two hides at least. One on the warm side of the enclosure (where the heat light, or under tank heater is) and one on the cooler side.

Bedding can be just about anything from newspaper to a living vivarium of plants and shrubs.

Popular choices are aspen shavings, cypress mulch, astroturf, and newspaper.

NEVER use any of the following as substrate:
rocks
sand
dirt
pine shavings
cedar shavings

Those can all either cause impaction through accidental ingestion or release poisonous chemicals.

If you use aspen, cypress, or other loose substrate, you will need to move your snake to a different enclosure (known as a feeding tub), to feed him so he doesn't accidentally ingest any substrate.

Heat should be applied to only one third of the enclosure (the right third, or the left third, not the middle third!). How much heat you need will depend greatly on how hot, or cool your house is and how big its enclosure is.

Please note: Most snakes will nip as babies. They are scared, it's only natural. It won't hurt, but you will flinch, and that will reinforce the behavior (which is bad). Until you're comfortable enough with your snake that a nip won't make you flinch, I recommend handling with gloves!

Also note! Many colubrid constrictors will musk if frightened. This basically means, you scared the crap (literally) out of them. The smell varies by species, but what it definitely does is make the snake very, very slippery and hard to hold.

Here's a "to buy" list for snake keeping to let you know what you're getting in to. None of these items are "optional" If you can't afford them, you can't afford a snake.

Enclosure:
20 gallon aquarium minimum. ~$40
Substrate. $0 for newspaper up to $10 for a large bag of aspen shavings.
Undertank Heater - ~$15
2 hides - ~$0 for old butter dishes with a hole cut in them up to $10 for commercial hides.
Water dish ~$0 for an old butter dish to $20 for a commercial hide
Screen top for aquarium- $15

You'll also want a big rock or something similar for on top of the screen. Snakes are strong, and will easily pop a screen lid off and escape.

Climbing sticks, and rocks for sunning, or abrading skin can be taken from outside, just be sure to wash them with bleach and water, and then bake them in the oven at 250 degrees for a couple of hours.


Also something to consider is average lifespan.

Corn snakes can live 20+ years.
Garter snakes average more like 5-10 years.

Nearly all snakes eat whole vertebrate prey. Garters and corns do well on pink mice (new born mice) which are available frozen from pet stores, and will grow into full grown mice or immature rats. Snakes should always be fed frozen/thawed prey when possible (for the snake's safety). Never, under any circumstances feed a snake prey that is still frozen.


About the biting though... there is no hard and fast rule for it, but.. snakes will nip sometimes. They generally grow out of it with regular handling, but it's just something that they have to be broken of. (It's no different really than getting a cat to stop clawing the curtains, or a dog to stop peeing on the rose bushes.)

Baby snakes are prey for *everything*. When you pick that little snake up, every cell in its body is saying "this is going to eat me!" You have to teach it that you won't eat it. The only way to do that, is through consistent handling. When it nips at you, ignore it. If you back down you're reinforcing the behavior by telling him he has frightened away the predator.

Eventually, your snake will learn to treat you with the same aloof disdain that cats do. You are the warm taxi service that brings the food.

[Azzarth]

Nafun, that was absolutely wonderful. I have this page bookmarked now, and Im copying all the instructions into a notepad file. I'll let you guys go for tonight, but I'll be writing down any more questions :D

[BlindOne]

Enclosure:
20 gallon aquarium minimum. ~$40

You'll also want a big rock or something similar for on top of the screen. Snakes are strong, and will easily pop a screen lid off and escape.

Some good advice in this post but for God's sake, don't trust a rock to hold your animal in. Get a critter cage with the locking screen top. Rubbermaid containers will also work well and be equally secure.

I'd also recommend an undertank heating pad (UTH) for your heat needs. I prefer the exo-terra rainforest pads(~100 degrees) because you can -easily- burn an animal using the desert style(~140 degrees) heat pads

[Nafun]

I've had good success with rocks, if I use 4 big rocks (greater than 5 lbs) one on each corner. And poor success with one big rock (greater than 10lbs) in the center.

However, I guess I can't really recommend the "big rock" method.

One failure was one too many. Latches don't fail. But expect to pay a lot more for an aquarium with a locking screen lid.

They take a cheap *** aquarium, slap a latching screen lid on the top, call it a "reptile terrarium" and put a $90 price tag on the bastards.

I wouldn't recommend a rubbermaid container for corns/garters. I'm sure other people use them without incident, but in my experience, even with ludicrous amounts of airholes, I have trouble keeping the humidity level inside plastic tubs below "swamp level".

I realize I live in a swamp, and this might have something to do with it.

I would also like to thank you for being mature beyond your years. You're obviously a young man, and it's nice to see a post start "I want to get a reptile" and not end "What should I get? An anaconda or a rattlesnake?!?"

You are absolutely starting in the right place with a garter or cornsnake.

[Lankyrob]

Just wanted to show off me cornsnake as much as anything but here is a picture of my nearly full grown corn and her vivarium.

[Will0W783]

You can buy cage clips from most pet stores (usually $4-10) that will do a lot better than a rock. You can also buy a Critter Cage. These are tanks with sliding screen tops that lock in, and are much more secure than the screen lids that sit on top. Zilla | Products » Critter Cage (http://www.zilla-rules.com/products/critter-cages.htm). I would highly recommend this style of cage. When I used to use tanks, I found the Critter Cages to be far superior to tanks with lids that I had to clip down.

[dragunov.762]

i would agree get a critter cage or the like. also you can custom build one (if you are handy) or use a large sterilite container with a UTH. as far a beginner snakes go i would suggest a Corn (as has been said before) and king snake (some can be flighty or a bit nippy but they calm down really well, mexican blacks are always a tad flighty though from my experience) i have no experience with Garter snakes except seeing some at the park so i am no help there but if Wayne says they are good they must be good (he is the forum expert on Garters and has us all wanting one). I have heard Balls are a decent beginners snake but they tend to be picky eaters and that freaks people with no experience out most of the time so i don't know if i would suggest them, maybe someone with more experience than me can comment further on BP if you are intrested in one

[infernalis]

A common misconception is that Ball pythons are a good beginner snake....

They have delicate humidity requirements or you will never get a good shed, they are nocturnal, so they never give any real "display" during the daytime, the picky eating issues, and really I'm sorry if anyone disagrees with me, but proper husbandry is really better left to intermediate keepers, someone who has a lot of patience and time to really learn how to get it right.

Fortunately they are a very hardy species and will survive less than optimal husbandry practices, but is that fair to the snake? my answer is no.

That leaves us with Corns and garters.....

so the real issue there is size and desired colorations.

since Garters are available in almost all the same colours as corns, and also are available in BLUE, I guess the real choice is size.

Another thing to consider, Garters are very diurnal, and very active. They have a sense of curiosity I have never seen in any other species of snake, Mine will come right up to the glass and watch whatever it is I am doing with interest. Never seen that with any other species.

[emseeKAY]

I have never seen in any other species of snake, Mine will come right up to the glass and watch whatever it is I am doing with interest. Never seen that with any other species.

Unless of course it's feeding time ;)

[shaunyboy]

If you're looking for active then corns, garters, kingsnakes are the way to go.


was just going to suggest a kingsnake.if you get a good one thats already been established as a non biter they are really good easy snakes to keep.sounds like you've fallen in love with corns though.so the only advice i can give you is follow your heart.you've already taken care of all the thinking side of things re your set up,etc.whatever you get i'm sure you'll have a lot of fun taking care of it.i also bet this time next year you have a lot more snakes in your care.they're very,very addictive...!!
cheers shaun

[marvelfreak]

:) IMO carpets are the best beginner snake. A Irain Jaya or Bredli don't get overly big. Awesome eaters, very active, and usely very mellow. Jungles are sometime a little nippy as babies ,but mellow with age. I believe carpets make a better first snake than balls. Diamonds and Jags are some of the most beautiful snakes ever. All i have to say is if you did a poll of what kind of snake everyone here owns and would like to own i bet carpets would easily be number one. :)

[Will0W783]

Corn snakes are very nice easy snakes to keep. My only advice is do NOT get a baby. When they are very small, they are susceptible to getting shed stuck on the tip of the tail, which can restrict blood flow and kill the tail tip. Try to get at least a yearling.

[Palor]

I think many species of Kingsnake, Black Rat snakes, Rosy and Rubber Boas can all make good starter pets. Also I think some of the dwarf boas can be great beginner pets, Solomon Island Ground Boas are fairly easy to care for and have a great temperament.

[Nafun]

I would like to echo what infernalis said about bps not being a good beginner snake.

My first snake was my Ball Python. He is my least interesting, and highest maintenance snake. I think the only reason they are recommended as a good "beginner" snake by so many places is because they are very reluctant to bite. While this is true, they are also very reluctant to eat, shed, and move.


I would recommend getting a yearling or older snake over a baby as well. Babies tend to be very very skittish (they're the bottom of the food chain, and they know it.). This makes them hard to handle and very easy to stress.

I really think a garter is your best bet for a first snake for one simple reason.

They are less of a time commitment (they live less than half as long), and you're still young. You can always get more snakes, but it's very hard to humanely get less snakes.

[Azzarth]

Gosh, thanks for all the input while I was away everyone :)

Special thanks to Nafun, your comment made me very happy. I don't think its as much about me being very mature (lol) I just realize that animals are ALIVE. they can die and get sick just like we can. If I was someones pet, i wouldn't want to lay around in my own poo all day :( I just tell myself to take care of animals like humans.

Went to Petsmart today, they were sold out of every snake they had -_- My local one sells Mexican Black Kingsnakes, "Fancy" Corn Snakes, and Ball Pythons. The Fancy Corns are basically regular Corns with color morphs I think.

But I did look at habitat accessories and stuff. They have a hide that looks really nice, its got a rough sandy finish to it, big enough to allow growth but small enough to provide a feeling of security.

They also have under-tank heaters! Those stick to the bottom, on one side, correct? how long should it stay on per day? Do I need both a basking light and an under-tank heater?

[Nafun]

If at all possible, you should get your snake from a breeder rather than a pet store. Less chance of disease, and less chance of getting a wild caught specimen passed off as captive bred. They'll cost about the same as a pet store too. Pet stores generally charge like $60 for a corn snake, but you can get a corn snake for $20 plus ~$35 shipping online.

[Azzarth]

Yeah, Infernalis said he could set me up with one of his blue Garter varieties for $45 + shipping. That's in my price range, and I've been hearing good things about his animals.

[Freebody]

If at all possible, you should get your snake from a breeder rather than a pet store. Less chance of disease, and less chance of getting a wild caught specimen passed off as captive bred. They'll cost about the same as a pet store too. Pet stores generally charge like $60 for a corn snake, but you can get a corn snake for $20 plus ~$35 shipping online.
ya i was going to say the same thing. If i was you and had decided a snake was the reptile you wanted to start with,as opposed to a lizard, then I would talk to infernalis hes got some jaw dropping garters and you can count on getting a real healthy little one your herp pleasure.
remember to post us some pics of what ever you get.
just to let you know you dont have to start with a small snake just because your a beginner, do alot of reading, ask all the questions you want here to confirm what you have read for mixed reviews, and get what you really deep down want, it will trully make your herping that much better. GL bro and welcome to the forum

[dragunov.762]

before you get the snake get all the stuff you will need first and have his viv set up before you get him/her home. it makes it alot simpler to catch mistakes in the setup or if you happen to be missing something you can get it before it becomes a problem. i have been there before with my first snake and it is easier to set everything up first and set the snake in a cage than try and get together a vivarium while holding a snake.

[infernalis]

All excellent points folks.

[Azzarth]

I plan to have the habitat/enclosure fully set up and ready for the snake's arrival

[cathatesrudy]

So it seems that you're pretty well set on a garter, but I wanted to weigh in since it was asked for posts by those who "spoil" their corns earlier on in the thread, and I wanted to post my vivarium pic with my corn snake who was about 8-10 months when I got him for $25 from Serpinco at my very first reptile show in Raleigh, NC in 2002, and with the exception of having one regurgitation after I'd had him about 6 months, has NEVER given me any problems as far as his total care is concerned. He has always shed well, eaten well, and it looks like we had a successful pairing with him and our new female corn, so in summary a corn snake was a perfect first reptile for me (I can say I'd have probably been just as good if I'd started with leopard geckos also after keeping them for a while now as well) but at any rate, here is my corn snake set up http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/swinginuttersgrrl/rory6-10-10001.jpg I have one of the expensive "locking" reptile tanks from a normal retailer but I got it second hand for dirt cheap otherwise he'd be in a regular tank instead of the kind with the sliding lid, it is the 40 gallon size, I use ecoearth/bedabeast substrate with scattered rocks, driftwood, silk plants, a log hide and moss tucked here and there which gets wet down for humidity, he has one large under tank heater under the driftwood side and otherwise his temps fluctuate with those of our house over the course of the year.
Conversely, our female corn lives in a rubbermaid storage bin with the same substrate and the "economy" black plastic reptile hide boxes simply because I wanted to have a display tank for my corn snake and my husband chose simple utility for his corn snake (I'm not knocking on utility, just illustrating separate preferences)
anyway, goodluck with whatever you choose (and don't forget to mull over some of the easier lizards also, leopard geckos especially, and if you're willing to do some homework cresties also) and happy herp keeping!
~K

[Hillsberry]

For me I say get a Capert Python. One the are so beautiful. Easy to care for. And they get to be a good size snake. Depending on which type of Carpet python you want the size does vary. Personally I say go for a Jungle Capret Python. They only get a about 6 to 7 feet. They are my personal favorite. They are yellow and black. And I just love mine! This is Raven. She is a female Jungle Capret Python. She is 2 years old. Just turned 2 years old. She is about 5 feet now. She is so sweet. I love her to death. I think this would be an easy first snake. If you can handle the size. There are other Carpets that get bigger and other one that are alittle small. Hope this helped! :)

9487

[Aaron_S]

Everyone has had great suggestions but let's look at what they asked for. An active snake. Most pythons, even carpets, aren't overly active. Garters, kings and corns are probably some of the most active snakes I've ever seen. Constantly on the move during the day.

Also as a first snake, I think these are better choices than the larger carpet species. You can also get more colour variety for a better price. Besides that, for a first snake, no one wants to tame one down.

[Azzarth]

Sorry to ask the same question again, but no one answered it :/

Do I need an under-tank heater AND a basking light? or if I have one can I do without the other?

[Nafun]

Plus, a carpet python will run you $100-$800 depending on subspecies!

I love my carpet, but I wouldn't recommend one as a first snake for the same reason you don't buy a 16 year old a brand new sports car.

Garters and Corns are pretty tame, they're cheap, they don't have high temperature or humidity requirements, and they're small enough to live off of mice if that's all you can get.

[Nafun]

An UTH is sufficient. Snakes generally don't need UV lights. For a tropical or desert species you might need both, just to maintain temps, but for a temperate species like a garter or a corn an UTH should be sufficient.

[Azzarth]

Alright sweet! Sorry if it takes a while for a response, I'm currently raiding Icecrown Citadel with my friend Destery.

[Freebody]

Sorry to ask the same question again, but no one answered it :/

Do I need an under-tank heater AND a basking light? or if I have one can I do without the other?
its up to you which of them you prefer, for the most part get yourself a light put a temp guage on both sides of the tank so you can measure cold side and hot side,and adjust your watt of bulb to match the temp needs of the type of snake you pick. if you have a rack system with multiple snakes its alot easier to use under tank heaters.

[Freebody]

hehe WoW player, i think their is a couple of us on this forum.
i use lights myself, actually i use a ciramic heat dish, i find lights burn out to fast.

[totheend]

Okay, Garters are great snakes.......but really is that all we can offer?

Good beginner snake depends on what you are looking for in a snake.

My 1st snake was a BP and in my opinion doesn't take rocket science to figure out how to care for them. If it isn't shedding well then proper husbandry hasn't been met. As for any snake...proper husbandry is VERY important. People think a good beginner snake is one that can handle improper husbandry and still live..........

2nd snake was a JCP, also not rocket science.

List of good beginner snakes could be long.......you need to decide what you are looking for in a pet.

So here is a short list:

Rubber boas
Sand boas
dumerils boas
ball pythons
spotted pythons
childrens pythons
corn snakes
many different rat snakes
king snakes
hognose
African house snakes
rosy boas
gophers
........I am sure that others can add to that list. I think that you should look at all of your options before you decide :D

[Azzarth]

I'm not picking a garter because they are all that are available, I'm picking them because they have everything I'm looking for in a snake. I have found a very reliable source for garters that has really fair prices. No one has offered to tell me where I can find a corn snake breeder, they've only said not to buy them from pet stores.

[totheend]

I wish that I could help you with corn breeders, but I am not familiar with breeders in the US.

Good luck with your Garter. If that is what you are looking for in a snake than you have made the right decision. Enjoy him :D

[Aaron_S]

I think it's great to give someone options but let's not over do it with species. Really, there are a very small handful of species of snakes that would be considered beginner. Corns and possibly garters are tied for the tops. I can find cons that any beginner may have issues with with any other species.

[infernalis]

Thanks once again Aaron.

[Freebody]

i would have to agree with corns and garters for a first snake, learn movement and predicting your snakes movements to learn its temperments,are all things i think us verterans would take for granted as part of the learning curve,i have handed my perfectly friendly snakes over to my friends and was not paying attension for a sec and then look bad over and seen the methode in which my friend is handling had pissed her right off and shes getting ready to lay a can of whoop $%# sort of speak,i chop that up as just being inexperienced not my snake which i never been bitten me out of anger. so not just the basics which can be learned in a book or website. hense why i think get a smaller snake like a garter cheep,small, beutifull with many different patterns to choose,if you mess up one day and get tagged,its not going to be such a learning experience as if it was a full grown burm :P you can always get 20 more snakes later when you got few years under your belt. more is better than less as far as im concerned. did i mention i want pics of your new snake when you get it lol

[Azzarth]

Of course I'll post pics! it might be a while though, my mother is still thinking the idea over :/

[marvelfreak]

Okay, Garters are great snakes.......but really is that all we can offer?

Good beginner snake depends on what you are looking for in a snake.

My 1st snake was a BP and in my opinion doesn't take rocket science to figure out how to care for them. If it isn't shedding well then proper husbandry hasn't been met. As for any snake...proper husbandry is VERY important. People think a good beginner snake is one that can handle improper husbandry and still live..........

2nd snake was a JCP, also not rocket science.

List of good beginner snakes could be long.......you need to decide what you are looking for in a pet.

So here is a short list:

Rubber boas
Sand boas
dumerils boas
ball pythons
spotted pythons
childrens pythons
corn snakes
many different rat snakes
king snakes
hognose
African house snakes
rosy boas
gophers
........I am sure that others can add to that list. I think that you should look at all of your options before you decide :D Hognose are venmous so i wouldn't say they're a good beginner snake.

[dragunov.762]

most people have no reaction or very little to hognose venom. i think it is supposed to be almost an amphibian specific venom as that is what they eat in the wild. i have seen people get bit by them first hand with no ill effects so this is not hear say. that being said some people are allergic to the venom and can have serious side effects. but do to the hoggies tendency to "bluff" it rarely bites in self defense. I am not disagreeing that it isn't the best beginners snake just thought i would throw that out there though.

[infernalis]

when hoggies "roll over" they defecate and musk, its nasty.

And I know it's personal preference but those faces are butt ugly to me.


I see we have an anti Garter snake member here. :(

[citysnakes]

hognose snakes are rear fanged so thats why you may have seen people get bit and not have a reaction to the venom.



My 1st snake was a BP and in my opinion doesn't take rocket science to figure out how to care for them. If it isn't shedding well then proper husbandry hasn't been met. As for any snake...proper husbandry is VERY important. People think a good beginner snake is one that can handle improper husbandry and still live..........


this is a great point.


i also think that many snakes on the list above are good "beginner" snakes.

[Nafun]

I'm not saying balls are hard to care for. All snakes require a specific heat, humidity, and set up that is analogous to their native environment in order to thrive. Balls, however, are lazy. It would be very easy for someone to get a ball python as their first snake and decide "snakes are boring".

I would say that an ideal beginner snake is one that is docile, active, hardy, common and with an activity cycle (diurnal, crepuscular, or nocturnal) that coincides with its owner.

Docility to keep the novice keeper from being intimidated.
Active to keep the novice keeper interested.
Hardy because we all made mistakes on our first snake.
Common so that proper husbandry information is abundant and easy to obtain.
Activity cycle because the most active snake won't seem active if you only ever see it when its sleeping.

Proper husbandry is important. It is the most important thing about keeping snakes. However, no amount of research into a snake before you acquire it can take the place of experience, and without experience, mistakes will happen.

[Hillsberry]

Aaron S- Question are kings really active snakes because I have a King and so o a few of my friends and they are never out.

Nafun- If you get a Carpet at a expo you can find them for $85-$150. I got mine from an expo and she was 85 and I got her from a really good breeder. And also why do you think Carpets arent good starter snakes? My carpet was my second snake and I have not had any problems with her at all.

[citysnakes]

generally, if a captive snake isnt hiding then it is sitting out in the open. im unaware of any species of snake that puts on a show for their keeper to keep him or her entertained. anyone who decides a snake is boring because the thing hides all day probably purchased it for the wrong reasons anyway. if one is not genuinely interested in keeping snakes then it will not matter what species he or she keeps.

[totheend]

I really hope that you were not referring to me as being anti garter snake! Not at all. I love all snakes, all animals. In fact I would love some garters one day. All I said was that garters were not the only beginner snake. I was offering a few more options. If I was asking about beginner snakes I would hope that people would offer more than one choice. Sure, garters are great beginners........so are many other snakes.

Hognose are beautiful snakes (in my opinion). They are pretty reluctant to bite and if they do, you have to let them chew on you for anything to possibly happen. I hope common sense says "don't let the animal chew on me!". If you lack that common sense then maybe you shouldn't keep any pets.

People seem to be bashing Ball Pythons are good beginners. Yet the BP is probably the #1 purchased beginner snake.

I think that everyone has different ideas about what a beginner snake is. And some people are no doubt biased in their opinions. In the end it all depends on what you are comfortable with, the amount of time and space you have and most importantly what interests you the most.

[Aaron_S]

The kings I have owned were active. I've seen a few others too.

Julian, not all snakes hide during the day. Garters are diurnal. They are out during the day time hours and not at night such as a ball python would be.

Again, I'm not saying no one's suggestions are unreasonable but this person wanted specific things in their first snake. Active, small-ish, easy to keep. Garters and corns still top this list. As I said before give me a species and I'll tell you why it doesn't make a good "beginner" for everyone.

[totheend]

I will have to say the rubber boa is a great beginner snake. If you can tell me why it isn't, please do!! :)

[infernalis]

Of course as a breeder, keeper and someone who is fascinated with Garter snakes at all levels from genetics to biology, I am biased. ;)

However, they have these qualities that you can hardly ever find in any other species...

Active and curious, diurnal, wide range of temperatures are acceptable. I keep all of mine without any sort of heaters at all, normal everyday household temps are just fine, but they do enjoy a basking area (light), once you get hooked, it's perfectly normal to house more than one in the same enclosure without any stress to the animals, they will actively climb, swim and burrow in the substrate often popping their heads to to play "peek a boo"

Bites when they happen are almost entertaining unless it's a very large female and even then it's more of a pinch than a bite. They will occasionally musk if spooked, but soap and water is an easy solution for that.

they seldom go "off feed" and will gladly accept fish, worms and or pinkies for food, so if you have very little money at the moment you can just go out and catch some night crawlers for free and keep them fed, or buy some tilapia fillet at the grocery store for a couple of dollars to keep it fed.

I'm sure everyone here has valid points and I respect that completely, we all have our favorites, and that is why I like this forum so much, variety!! unlike MOST other forums that have a narrow focus.

So I'm not trying to force garter snakes off on anyone, but I will warn you, they are addicting once you get to know them.

Thamnophis (http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/thamnophis.htm)

[citysnakes]

hehe, Aaron thanks for that little tidbit of information but i never said all snakes are nocturnal.;)

i think you get the point i was trying to make however...

[Aaron_S]

Julian, I also never said all snakes are active. ;)

Yes I did get your point.

Rubber boas, find me one place to get them in Canada. Also they are HARD to get to eat. I only know of 1 person who has bred them in Canada over the past few years and they have to put the babies through a year of brumation before they eat. Not a beginner snake.

[totheend]

Julian, I also never said all snakes are active. ;)

Yes I did get your point.

Rubber boas, find me one place to get them in Canada. Also they are HARD to get to eat. I only know of 1 person who has bred them in Canada over the past few years and they have to put the babies through a year of brumation before they eat. Not a beginner snake.

I know the person very well, have bought many rubber boas from him........all eat great some of the best eaters I have. They are not HARD to get to eat. They require no heat source and don't get big and also don't bite. Good breeders don't sell until babies eat. You wouldn't buy a corn or ball before it ate, why would you buy a rubber boa before it ate. We are talking about buying from a breeder. Sorry but rubber boas are extremely easy to care for. And he has some for sale.

[citysnakes]

Julian, I also never said all snakes are active. ;)


i never said you did...:confused:

[Aaron_S]

Where the hell are these snakes for sale? I have wanted rubbers for ages!

By the way, this is the first breeder I've known in 10 years who have produced and are willing to sell babies, if they are available to the general public! I'm very interested.

[totheend]

Aaron, I assume that it would be the same person. He does have one or two left from last season. If you are interested and know him, shoot him a pm. He asked me last week if I knew anyone interested. They are amazing snakes and the easiest snake I have ever cared for. Interesting animals too. The first time I caught my male laying on his back I thought he was dead!!! Turns out males will sleep like that. You also have to love a snake that has no interest in biting or crapping on you.

[shaunyboy]

:) IMO carpets are the best beginner snake. A Irain Jaya or Bredli don't get overly big. Awesome eaters, very active, and usely very mellow. Jungles are sometime a little nippy as babies ,but mellow with age. I believe carpets make a better first snake than balls. Diamonds and Jags are some of the most beautiful snakes ever. All i have to say is if you did a poll of what kind of snake everyone here owns and would like to own i bet carpets would easily be number one. :)


i vote chuck for president,you just cant have enough carpets mate.i cant wait till my 17 year old leaves the house as im getting his room as my reptile room.or should i say carpet room.....!!!
cheers shaun

[Azzarth]

I have wanted rubbers for ages!


This made me lol, literally. Sorry I couldn't respond over the weekend, I was at Dad's house (no PC there)

Thanks for all the advice and stuff people, I really do appreciate it.

I don't really have any further questions at this point, but if you all think of anything you would like to add, please do so.

[marvelfreak]

i vote chuck for president,you just cant have enough carpets mate.i cant wait till my 17 year old leaves the house as im getting his room as my reptile room.or should i say carpet room.....!!!
cheers shaun :yes: As your president i will make it my mission to put a carpet python in every home. We will start having program in school to teach children at a early age about how to take care of snakes. Up on completing this class they will each recieve their first carpet python. And we will do away fear and ignorance people have of snakes. As your president this i promise. LOL:yes:

[totheend]

This made me lol, literally. Sorry I couldn't respond over the weekend, I was at Dad's house (no PC there)



LOL, that is why I try not to refer to them as just rubbers......too much can come from that !! I like to try to always say rubber boas!

[Nafun]

I don't like rubber boas. I can't get mine to eat, and it's lazier than my bp.

[totheend]

LOL Nafun, looks healthy to me!

[Freebody]

lol he looks healthy , look at that color and his shine :P

[totheend]

Yep, he looks like the perfect beginner snake :P

[Lankyrob]

:yes: As your president i will make it my mission to put a carpet python in every home. We will start having program in school to teach children at a early age about how to take care of snakes. Up on completing this class they will each recieve their first carpet python. And we will do away fear and ignorance people have of snakes. As your president this i promise. LOL:yes:


You got my vote!!

[shaunyboy]

:yes: As your president i will make it my mission to put a carpet python in every home. We will start having program in school to teach children at a early age about how to take care of snakes. Up on completing this class they will each recieve their first carpet python. And we will do away fear and ignorance people have of snakes. As your president this i promise. LOL:yes:

THIS IS WHY I ALWAYS VOTE FOR CHUCK .....!!!

THE PRESIDENT WITH A PLAN .....!!!

long may your reign continue,wait a minute thats a king.must admit KING CHUCK has a better ring to it.as a king you could make it the law.you must own a carpet python to belong in the carpet kingdom...!!
cheers shaun:yes:

[marvelfreak]

My wife just read this and say that you guy are going to give me a even bigger ego.:rolleyes: She said President is one thing, but King another. The last thing the world would need is for me to be power to have people beheaded. :cool: LOL Just think people who are mean to animals or don't like snake or they're a Pedophiles OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! HaHaHa A place were everyone own carpet python would be Utopia. :)

[infernalis]

I like Chucking better.

I just fell down, will you help me upchuck?http://ball-pythons.net/forums/images/smilies/banana.gif

[C#@$e]

milks are also great first snakes, but thats even if you want a snake. i also have a leopard gecko and there great pets too. snakes in my opinion are one of the best pets you can have but its your decision...............choose wisely ;)

[marvelfreak]

I like Chucking better.

I just fell down, will you help me upchuck?http://ball-pythons.net/forums/images/smilies/banana.gif
Laugh so hard i up chuck all over and Mt. Dew shot out my nose. lol

[marvelfreak]

I don't like rubber boas. I can't get mine to eat, and it's lazier than my bp.:Wow: That's the scarest anaconda i ever seen. Does it bite? :yes:lol

[infernalis]

Laugh so hard i up chuck all over and Mt. Dew shot out my nose. lol


http://www.laserpointerforums.info/pics/camera.jpg

[shaunyboy]

My wife just read this and say that you guy are going to give me a even bigger ego.:rolleyes: She said President is one thing, but King another. The last thing the world would need is for me to be power to have people beheaded. :cool: LOL Just think people who are mean to animals or don't like snake or they're a Pedophiles OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! HaHaHa A place were everyone own carpet python would be Utopia. :)


your wifes missing a very important part mate.she would automatically be queen:crazy2:.i bet even in royal house holds the wifes always in charge.:yes:
cheers shaun

p.s.trust you to pull chucking out the bag wayne.:yes::yes::yes:

[shaunyboy]

http://www.laserpointerforums.info/pics/camera.jpg


eeew that would be gross :yes:

[marvelfreak]

Me and my freind Shawn just seen something that makes me want to Chuck someone head off. Shawn got a call from a guy wanting us to ID a snake for him and move it outside of down so it wouldn't get hurt. It was behind his barber shop. While he was on the phone with Shawn a couple of Drunks from the bar two doors down were walking down the road saw the snake and killed it with a brick. When the barber went back outside he saw them walking away laughing. The one still had a brick in his hand. When he ask why they kill it the drunk said "it looked like a rattler". Guess what? It turn out to be a common corn snake. People like this should be beheaded. Plus who in the world is drunk at 11:00am in the morning? Also the only kind of rattler around here are timber rattlers and i have never heard of anyone ever seeing one around here. I lived here my whole live.

[infernalis]

So sad when that happens. some people are just morons.

[Coffee Black]

This thread exploded haha. I seem to want garters quite badly now, along with more morelia. Hmm...

[Coffee Black]

and what "morph" of garter is this ? http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/Thamnophis_files/BN1.jpg

[shaunyboy]

and what "morph" of garter is this ? http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/Thamnophis_files/BN1.jpg


waynes got my wife wanting her first project of her own.shes fell in love with garters.although i only work with morelia im really looking forward to my wife getting her garters.dont know what kind the one in your picture is but its beautifull.
cheers shaun

chuck thats one crappy story mate.pitty the drunk guys didnt hit each other with the bricks.

[Azzarth]

Ooh I like that Garter morph!

[infernalis]

and what "morph" of garter is this ? http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/Thamnophis_files/BN1.jpg


That is a 100% naturally occurring Texas black neck. No morph, just all natural. She is a huge momma too. Unfortunately very hard to get hold of.

Texas herp laws prohibit gathering, and only like 3-4 people breed them.

They produce small litters of really big babies. So the overall available numbers are small.

The waiting lists are long. I had to accept a "non feeder" to get mine. She was a real bear to get eating.

As soon as I can get her a male, I will breed her.

[marvelfreak]

:Wow:That is one wicked snake.:Wow: One of these day Wanye i just might have to get a Garter. If i ever do i'll be giving you a call.

[Coffee Black]

I would say it rivals the san francisco.

[infernalis]

I will take her outside in the natural light sometime soon and take some better pictures with my arm included for perspective.

By garter snake standards she is a big girl too.

[Evra0914]

and what "morph" of garter is this ? http://www.danceswithreptiles.com/Thamnophis_files/BN1.jpg
I love that Garter! :)

[C#@$e]

that is a very nice morph

[infernalis]

Thanks , Appreciate the comments ;)

[Coffee Black]

Changed my mind. i think it blows the san francisco away! However, i have yet to see either in person ( low chances of the san fran) so I'll reserve judgement.

[infernalis]

Changed my mind. i think it blows the san francisco away! However, i have yet to see either in person ( low chances of the san fran) so I'll reserve judgement.


Since I cannot keep a San Francisco garter snake legally, I have to settle for my Infernalis' (California Garter snakes) and I admire both of these sub species equally.

I just got notification that I will be receiving ANOTHER Infernalis female. Very happy about that news. They were completely sold out this season, and someone backed out of a deal. She's mine now.!!!

http://www.thamnophis.us/cherry/infernalis2.jpg

[Nafun]

The sheer beauty of the garter morphs you post have made me regret deciding on a melanistic garter. I'm sort of hoping now that scott felzer doesn't get any melanistic this year, just so I can get something a little brighter instead. (Wife has put a limit on snakes, unfortunately, so I can't just get both.)

[Coffee Black]

Noice! I like her.

[Azzarth]

Is there a thread where I can see pictures of all the Garters/Corns available to me? I keep seeing all these beautiful snakes on this thread and I keep switching my choice :(

[C#@$e]

why cant we keep San Fransisco garters?

[infernalis]

why cant we keep San Fransisco garters?

Federal endangered species laws.

There habitat has been reduced to almost nothing.

That's why I am a huge fan of Infernalis' they are close as I am ever going to get to a san fran.

[C#@$e]

do you think that we would ever be able to keep them?

[Nafun]

Federal endangered species laws.

There habitat has been reduced to almost nothing.

That's why I am a huge fan of Infernalis' they are close as I am ever going to get to a san fran.

I wonder what it would take to convince the federal government to let you start a captive breeding program for wild release?

[C#@$e]

yea then you can actually have a san fran for a little while

[emseeKAY]

i believe they are legal to keep in canada are they not?

[infernalis]

do you think that we would ever be able to keep them?

Doubt it, Bottom line is the habitat is now known as San Francisco.

I wonder what it would take to convince the federal government to let you start a captive breeding program for wild release?

It has been tried, not even zoos can do it. There is talks about rehabilitating injured snakes and using them for zoo displays.

i believe they are legal to keep in canada are they not?


Yes, perfectly legal in Canada.

They are "The world's rarest reptile" (Honestly)

[C#@$e]

what made garters your favoirte snake?

[infernalis]

I grew up surrounded by "normal" garters, always thought they were cool.

But when I first laid eyes on a picture of a cherry red flame, I knew I had to have one.

Then I made friends with Scott Felzer, the nations largest breeder, it took off from there.

Besides, since they stay small, I can have a whole bunch of them without needing a warehouse for a reptile room.

You can keep several in the same enclosure, so it's easy to have a huge number of them without needing a million dollar budget to house them all.

about $100 a month feeding bill to keep them all happy, not too bad.

and by the way, I would not even be here right now, Jason (boots) the owner of this site is a fellow garter snake fan as well.

[C#@$e]

sounds awsome..

[Azzarth]

How many snakes do you have total Infernalis?

[infernalis]

How many snakes do you have total Infernalis?

I don't know for sure?? there's like somewhere around 100 babies going on right now.

The "keeper" collection

2.1.0 Thamnophis Infernalis- California Red Sided Garter Snakes
0.1.0 Flame X Erythristic Eastern Garter Snakes
1.0.0 Melanistic Thamnophis Sirtalis Sirtalis
1.2.0 Kansas Albino Red Sided Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis Golden / Albino cross
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis Anerythristic morph
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - axanthic morph
2.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Iowa Snow
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Iowa Albino
1.1.2 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Snow/Nebraska Albino double Het
0.1.0 Thamnophis RADIX - Christmas Albino
0.1.0 Thamnophis cyrtopsis Eastern Black Neck Garter
0.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis Eastern Snow "Snowflake"
0.1.0 Thamnophis Malagascar - mexican garter snake
1.1.0. Thamnophis elegans vagrans Wandering Garter
2.3.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters (2 gravid right now)
0.0.1 Thamnophis HybridAlbino Checkered Normal eastern"Mutt"
0.0.1 Thamnophis proximus orariusCoastal Ribbon Snake
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis HET Anerythristic
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky"
1.0.0 Florida Black racer - fiesty yet way cool.
1.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snakes Pink eaters!
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" adult CB (pet store sale)
1.0.1. Pueblan Milk snakes "Oreo" adult & a '09 baby CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Dewie"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Getting Huge!
1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cain" Rescued from a crack house
0.1.9 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmella" sweet temperment
1.5.0 Storeria dekayi - Brown Snakes

[Azzarth]

That's quite a list! Can you explain what the 3 numbers in the front mean, if you don't mind?

[BlindOne]

That's quite a list! Can you explain what the 3 numbers in the front mean, if you don't mind?

male.female.unsexed