View Full Version : My run of bad luck continues....
Oh maaaaan :no: First I lose nearly a whole clutch of Carpet eggs, then I have a BABY Rainbow die on me and now it looks like my juvenile Blood python has I.B.D. ! :mad: Her neck is crooked and when I pick her up she`s flopping about a bit, much like a snake with I.B.D. You can see it in this picture, the angle her neck is at there is very wrong. Obviously it`s straight off to the herp vet with her. I don`t really know much about I.B.D., can anyone enlighten me a little? I`ll go and look into it aswell now obviously but I thought I`d post here first. I know it`s contagious so I`m more than a little worried about this as most of my collection is Pythons and Boas. I`m wondering if my little Rainbows death is connected to this now too.......
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/feebix/newlense013.jpg
shaunyboy
05-29-10, 03:42 PM
i really hope your wrong mate as its a horrible thing.ive witnessed in person once.it was a common boa.it was like it had had a stroke.to start with it kept extending itself (climbing up to the top) in the corners of the tank all the way up to the top then it would fall over like it had no cordination.it was also like it couldnt hold its head up and had very little cordination.it lay listless like it was dead at times (with its mouth slightly open sometimes) then would try and move all of a sudden out of the blue.it ended up striking at itself and biting its own body.they can take biopsy's also i'm pretty sure they can mri scans to look for lesions in its liver,etc.
type in inclusion body disease
after you type in the above,theres a good paper on this site by melissa kaplin's at anapsid.org
but type in inclusion body disease before you look for that paper as shes wrote a few papers.if you just type in anapsid.org you'll have to sift through a lot of her stuff i think.
you'll see what it says about morelia mate the symptoms come on very fast with them.
on an upside it might be a neuro issue,but the brb going as well may not be a good sign.did the vet take tissue samples of the brb ? im pretty sure the easiest way for the vet to get the quickest test results is post mortem tissue tests.its a reportable disease so by law your vet will have to follow procedures.i'm really sorry about all the negativity but i'd be lying if i said anything other than its one of the big 4 diseases and very dangerous to your whole collection.
i wish you all the best and hope it not ibd mate.
shaun
It's very contagious, and always 100% fatal. There's no treatment.
It's a virus, that much they know. They're not sure how it's spread, but one theory is mites. It only affects boas and pythons, but if it is spread by mites, that means colubrids and hots can be carriers. It can also be spread through shared accessories, such as using the same feediing tub for all snakes, or moving a hide from one enclosure to another.
There is a blood test to determine whether your snake has it.
I seriously hope you've been following proper quarantine procedure, otherwise you'll lose every boid you have =(
When you call your vet, make sure you tell them that you suspect IBD. That way they can make sure that no other boids are present at the office.
All snakes with IBD will die an excrutiating death as the disease attacks their organs and nervous system. The only "cure" is euthenasia, which should be done if your animal tests positive, both for it's sake, and the sake of all of your other reptiles.
*IMPORTANT* Boas live longer and show fewer symptoms than pythons, for this reason it is of absolute vital importance to *ALWAYS* quarantine boas for the full 3-6 months as recommended by most herp sites.
My advice would be for you to immediately quarantine your *entire* collection. You said you have carpets? Carpets are very very very susceptible to the disease. Watch them. I've even heard of people keeping a single carpet among boa shipments as a "canary" for IBD since they die so quickly from it.
Until then, remember...
Always quarantine new arrivals for a minimum of one month, 3-6 months recommended.
Never share tubs, hides, etc unless they've been cleaned with bleach.
Always, *ALWAYS* wash your hands immediately after handling a snake in quarantine. Hot water, antibacterial soap for at least 30 seconds.
shaunyboy
05-29-10, 03:58 PM
Nafun,ive heard of the canary thing as well mate.ive heard boa importers in the states will throw a carpet in with say 100 imported boas.if the carpets alive 3 to 4 weeks later then they deem the boas to be ibd free.in most cases morelia die within 3 weeks.i really hope its not ibd.its a devistating disease.
cheers shaun
Lankyrob
05-29-10, 04:04 PM
Got me fingers crossed for you mate
Cheers... I can`t even get an appointment for the vet until tuesday. Now I know what`s potentially going on, I`ll not handle any snakes, not open the tanks if I can help it and chuck a load of mite drug over the outside of some of the tanks as I`m still finding the odd live mite on one of my tanks. I couldn`t find a secind snake with mityes though so it`s proving difficult to kill the buggers off. They`ll spread it all over my snake room if it`s IBD :( Any other quaranteen proceedures I don`t know about? Please enlighten me. I`ll be sure to tell the vet I suspect IBD. Good point on the dead snake! I`ll ask if the vet would like me to dig him up and take him along for tests. Oh crap this sucks this does. :( How the f**k me did IBD get into my snake room!? :(
Lankyrob
05-29-10, 05:01 PM
Will continue to think positive thoughts for you mate - its possibly a horrible coincidence that these three things have happened together.
shaunyboy
05-29-10, 05:05 PM
i can give you a phone number for a supplier of provent a mite.it gets delivered to my door within 7 days,its £28 all in last time i bought it.
it kills all adult mites instantly.
remains active for 30 days
it does not kill the eggs but it kills the mites the second they hatch.
put your snakes in pillow cases in a different room until you completed the treatment.
you take everything out the tank and spray it all apart from the water bowl.wash it with hot soapy water.
you spray the whole inside of the tank.
the tank and furnishings youve sprayed gets left for 2 hours to let the fumes dissapate.
its a sure way of stopping the mites from moving about your snake room as theyre all dead.eggs may get tranfered if theres any but imo its irrelevent as the second they hatch theyre dead before they can bite a snake hence carry the virus.
cheers shaun
emseeKAY
05-29-10, 05:39 PM
WilloW explained IBD very well i'm not so sure how to link to threads so if Wayne sees this can you help me out? anyways this is what she said (its in "Looks like i need some help" thread)
"Boas and pythons can both contract IBD. It's a retrovirus, like AIDS. Also like AIDS, there is no cure and it is invariably fatal. However, it affects boas and pythons somewhat differently. In both cases, often the first sign is repeated regurgitations of food. Then it progresses to neurological problems, like the "stargazing" where the snake lifts its head straight up in the air and the head often falls over backwards...the animal won't be able to right itself if you turn it onto its back and movements will be uncoordinated and "twisty." I've seen cases where a snake corkscrewed its whole body up. Often there will be signs of respiratory infection as well. Pythons almost always show signs quickly and die within a few months. Boas can carry the disease without showing symptoms for months or even years, until some discrepancy in husbandry or environment or other illness weakens the immune system and sets of the symptoms of IBD. Necropsy will show eosinophilic inclusion bodies in the liver, kidneys, brain, heart, lungs and other organs, depending on how long the snake had the disease before it died. The brain inclusion bodies are the most characteristic sign, so the only definitive test for IBD is to sacrifice the snake and send the brain in for testing. If you have a snake showing symptoms indicative of IBD, it will most likely not survive for long and you'll definitely want to have a necropsy done to determine if it was IBD.
You shouldn't consider IBD as a reason not to buy a boa; if you buy from a respectable breeder, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. IBD has gotten fairly rare today due to good housing and quarantining practices, but it does pop up once in a while, especially when dealing with imported boids. However, when buying ANY new snake it is always recommended to quarantine it for up to 3 months. Some people even say 6. If you go onto Youtube and search for "inclusion body disease" you will find videos of snakes showing symptoms of IBD."
Again, this is from Willow not me. Hope its not IBD though, i really hope everything gets better feebs, Good luck! and hope that info helps.
infernalis
05-29-10, 07:27 PM
Fingers, legs and toes crossed for you.
Cheers guys and thanks for that link Emseekay, I spent last night swatting up a little. I already knew the symptoms to look out for, the first thing I said when I saw it was ooooh f**k meeeeeeeeee IBD :( I didn`t know it was fatal however and now, well you can imagine how I feel eh :( She was doing so well too. It`ll break my heart to see multiple snakes that I love die. :( I might have to call the emergency vet number actually and see if I can actually speak to her somehow.....
shaunyboy
05-30-10, 04:02 AM
when my mate boa had it mate the vet procedure was to euthinise the snake take mutiple tissue samples.these were all sent for testing and a second batch of samples were stored as reserves in a freezer.they were kept until the original samples were confirmed suitable and the test went according to plan.also a post mortem exam was done looking for tell tell signs of leisons on the liver,kidneys,etc.
was the brb and the blood the last additions to your collection mate.i was thinking you could contact the people you got them from and ask if they're having any symptoms in their collections.it may give you a bit peace of mind if theirs are all ok.
robs correct mate,it could be coincedence.brb could be blood poisoning and the blood could be a neuro issue.
cheers shaun
Yeeeeeah I can only hope that it is coincidence. They weren`t the very last snakes I bought no, I`ve had them quite a while but I`ve only just moved them to two new tanks I bought that may have been imported from France.... I had thought if it does turn out to be IBD I should probably mention it to both shops I go to and the shop I bought the snakes for sure....
emseeKAY
05-30-10, 09:37 PM
yeah it does not sound good if it is ibd, lets hope its not. i know id be crushed if i lost one of my snakes let alone more. fingers crossed for you!
Freebody
05-30-10, 11:47 PM
im so sorry to hear about your loved ones, my heart goes out to you, i really hope its not IBD and if it i i pray you collection is ok :( i cant help to put myself in your shoes an imagine what it would be like for you right now.
Cheers guys.... I`ll be speaking to the vet about an appointment tomorrow so I`ll let you know what`s happening......
Yep, IBD. My Beautiful female Blood python was put down five mintues after arriving at the vets :( I`m buying an industrial atomiser normally used in chicken sheds to fumigate my snake room with dilute F10 every day. I`ll just sit back and see how many snakes die then, there just isn`t anything else I can do. Keep it all clean, all on lockdown, treat everyone for mites and hope I`m lucky. :( I just can`t believe how unlucky I`ve been, what a pisser. Just when I thought it was all going really well.....
emseeKAY
06-01-10, 01:56 PM
really sorry about this whole thing buddy, i hope you dont lose anymore, keeping my fingers crossed for you. good luck feebo
Lankyrob
06-01-10, 04:35 PM
Maaan!!!! Am totally gutted for you mate - if there is anything i can do give me a shout.
Will pray/keep fingers crossed for your other guys.
dragunov.762
06-01-10, 06:31 PM
sorry to hear about the IBD outbreak hopefully you wont loose anything else
marvelfreak
06-01-10, 07:55 PM
:no:Sorry to here about your BRB, Borneo, and your clutch of carpet eggs. I guess bad luck really does come in threes. Here's hoping the rest of your snakes are ok. I got my fingers crossed for you. I truely feel for you. I lost 3 balls, 2 boas, and a burm to it years ago. It wipe out my whole collection at the time.:no:
Cheers.... I`ve just had to resign myself to it now. I`ll be fogging the room everyday as soon as I get my equiptment, I should think that will keep it in check as long as I haven`t got any more mites hanging about. I have an all new hatred for those little sods now. >:(
Paradise
06-02-10, 03:13 AM
In a lot of places (RSA)I.B.D. is diagnosed because of the shared symptoms of many other herp diseases. If IBD is your problem I am really sorry to hear. I have 3 boas and the 2 juveniles apparently both have IBD they have been ill since birth 6 months ago none of the other hatchlings got sick or even showed signs of illness. My point is don't worry about the problem until you know what the problem is. Yes I understand the need to protect your other children so by all means quarantine them and treat them, feed them all separately in their own feeding bowls, but make sure you have an IBD issue it may be something totally not related. Turns out my boas had stomach mites last week they started eating by them selves and things are just getting better.
To get IBD in your snake room you must have had contact with a sick snake. IBD does not just happen.
Like the rest of the good people here. I hope you experience a quick recovery from whatever is wrong with your blood python. I really hope it is not IBD!!! and wish you the best of luck. please keep us informed.
shaunyboy
06-02-10, 08:32 AM
Yep, IBD. My Beautiful female Blood python was put down five mintues after arriving at the vets :( I`m buying an industrial atomiser normally used in chicken sheds to fumigate my snake room with dilute F10 every day. I`ll just sit back and see how many snakes die then, there just isn`t anything else I can do. Keep it all clean, all on lockdown, treat everyone for mites and hope I`m lucky. :( I just can`t believe how unlucky I`ve been, what a pisser. Just when I thought it was all going really well.....
did the vet take tissue samples and send them to be tested mate ?
imo i cant see how he can make the diagnosis just by looking at the snake.yes the symptoms of ibd may be showing but there are other causes such as neuro issues that can cause similar symptoms.im not saying hes wrong but surely he sent tissue away to confirm his diagnosis 100%.
did he do a post mortem ? that can show liesons on the liver,kidneys etc.im just puzzled as to how he can be so sure using eyesight only mate.
its a good idea the fumagation but i'd be wanting tests done on the blood python.
i really hope that its only the brb and the blood you loose.i'll have everything crossed for you feebs.
cheers shaun
pepianpel
06-02-10, 08:42 AM
I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck. I hope that things brighten up for you soon!
Paradise
06-03-10, 07:03 AM
That really is terrible. I am very sorry but Shaunyboy has a point. There are so many other diseases which can be cured that have the same or at least similar visual symptoms as IBD. They really should have done tests or something. Anything more than just look at the reptile.
The problem I find is that the vets don't see our pets as patients but rather as just another animal. I have met very few vets that share a concern about about our pets well fair. here is to hoping that will change one day soon.
I hope the rest of your collection is safe and health.
The good thing with bad luck is, it goes away eventually.
I litterally couldn`t afford an autopsy AND the treatment and equiptment I need so I had to forego the autopsi. However the vet, a specialist herp vet, was confident, given the history, the fact that a Python and a Boa were affected and the symptoms, that it was IBD. I discussed the possibility of neurological issues mimicing the symptoms of IBD and he was still sure of it, IBD. I asked if it was possible, even though I don`t think this was possible, that both thier enclosures were too hot and they both had a stroke.... nope, IBD. What can I do? I have to listen to the herp vet. Whether or not it was IBD, the treatment is going to be the same, fumigate, clean,treat all snakes and enclosures for mites and be on watch for symptoms. My fogger is due today, my wife is moving her arcitecture drawing board and mess and crap and paper out of the room lol and I`ll get started with the big disinfect, although i`ve already given myself rsi spraying the bejeebus out of the entire room......
shaunyboy
06-04-10, 08:00 AM
sorry mate i didnt take costs into account.im very lucky my vets very qualified,works at 2 zoo's and lectures universitys on zoo and wildlife.he's also an expert at reducing my bills.his exact words to me were id make a s**t buisness man as i hate taking money of people.when my jag got keyhole surgery last month all he took was £146 he clocked off work so i didnt have to pay for his time.long story short he only charged me for the anesthesia.the x rays alone should have been £140.sometimes i forget how lucky i am to have this man practise just down the road from me.its funny you should use the word stroke feebs as thats exactley how my mates boa looked when she got euthinised,like a stroke victim.i'll have my fingers crossed the rest of yours is ok.
cheers shaun
citysnakes
06-04-10, 09:03 AM
you say the vet is experienced and this and that but a vet that makes a diagnosis like that without proper testing is not one i would want to go to. i think without proper testing, your vet should not have diagnosed IBD.
shaunyboy
06-04-10, 09:23 AM
in my part of the uk (scotland) by law a vet has to alert the health authoritys about ibd.so vets up here i assume are duty bound to take tissue samples and have them tested.then report the findings to said authoritys.if the client cant pay for it im pretty sure the vet has to go ahead with the tests regardless.
id still have hope feebo as the vet did not back his diagnosis up with tests.
cheers shaun
Will0W783
06-06-10, 03:27 PM
Feebo, I am so very sorry to hear about your blood python. However, there are a number of other things it could be. About a month and a half ago, my male hypo boa went neurological on me and went from fat happy snake to skeletal in two weeks. His muscles all basically atrophied. I thought for sure I was dealing with IBD and was a wreck. But it turned out he had genetic kidney disease, and my vet and I did several courses of antibiotic to stop the concurrent respiratory infection and force-feeding to keep his strength up. He did not make it, but none of my other snakes have gotten ill.
Also she could have injured her head. If she managed to break her back or fracture a neck vertebra mildly enough she could survive but have motion impairments. Infections that have gotten to the bloodstream cause septicemia which has neurological signs; commonly pneumonia not caught soon enough does this. Finally, what have you been using to treat mites? If you've been using pest strips and the snake came into physical contact with one, that could cause toxicity. Usually this is a problem with Vapona-containing pest strips. I personally only use Nix remedy because of its very low toxicity. If you've been using Provent-a-Mite I do not think it is supposed to be used ON the snakes, and if it gets into their water I don't know if it can also be toxic. Just know there are other things it could be, but exercise the utmost caution until you're sure.
When was the last time she ate? Has she ever regurgitated her food? Are there any signs of respiratory distress? Usually with IBD you'll notice the snake throwing up its food before any neurological symptoms appear. Hopefully you've got a good herp vet who can guide you through the process, but right now you're doing all you can. Make sure you take the blood python's entire cage out of the snake room, and if you can't vacuum out all the bedding and spray the cage down with a bleach solution (I would recommend making it stronger than the usual 10%, perhaps 25% to make sure you kill everything). Let the bleach solution dry for a few hours, then wipe the cage down with paper towels wet with water. If the cage is light enough to carry, just take it outside and hose it down after the bleach treatment. Make sure the blood python is in a completely separate room from your other snakes, and do anything you need to do with your other snakes before going into the room with the blood. After doing anything with the blood python, change your clothes and scrub down your hands/arms with soap and water for at least 30 seconds and then use hand sanitizer.
I wish you the best of luck and I hope it turns out ok in the end. Please keep us posted.
The Blood python was put down less than ten minutes after I entered the vets building Willow. :( In answer to some of you questions Willow, no she hadn`t shown ANY other signs of ANY sort of distress proir to the diagnosed IBD showing it`s self. She was eating and had eaten just a week before showing signs of illness. I didn`t find a single mite in her tank. The mites originated in the Rainbow Boas tank, I kept finding them on the outside of the tank aswell for a good few days after I treated the tank with Frontline. No other snakes were infected with mites. I`ve always used Frontline to treat mites, I treat the snake with 3ml per kilo of snake and a little squuirt for good measure in the corners and runners. As for disinfecting the affected tanks and the snake room, I`ve bought a poultry house fogger as recommended by the herp vet. I`m using dilute F10 and fumigating the room every day for the next few months. I`m also disinfecting the insides of the tanks with F10. Every last non essential things has been removed from that room and I`m up there every day disinfecting and cleaning the room and the snakes. As for your comment Julian, yes I do agree that a tissue sample would have been ideal. So I also don`t consider it a rock solid diagnosis as it isn`t backed up with proof. The vet has basically made a diagnosis based on the history and the visual symptoms, taking into account that the snakes affected were Python and Boa. I did ask if other illnesses could present the same symptoms and he gave me a very confident, No. Then explained his reasoning as above. I do see your point but at the same time I really have little choice but to listen to the vet, to an extent anyway, it`s always good to be armed with as much knowledge as possible in the first place isn`t it. So basically it`s clean clean clean, disinfect disinfect disinfect, watch for symptoms and pray I don`t lose any more snakes. I`ve got eggs due to hatch next month, selling babies while all this is going on can`t happen obviously so I`ll be housing them for longer than planned. I have a number of someone else to speak to about this so I`ll be calling her soon aswell. I`m doing everything I can here but I don`t see how I can ever carry on with breeding and selling unless I can have my snakes tested for IBD. A lung wash will show it up apparently, but as I say, that conversation hasn`t been had yet.....
Here is my fumigator. It was £256 so $300 ish. It leaves every single surface in the room "thouroughly disinfected" walls, floor, ceiling and behind tanks, everywhere. I`ll be using it at least a few tiumes a month after all this is over. I think I`d have to highly reccomend anyone with a snake room and thousands of $ or £ worth of snakes get one of these at some point when you`re feeling flush. It`s worth it just for knowing absolutely every single surface in the room is disinfected. I`m glad it`s something I can go on using really.....
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/feebix/malagassy015.jpg
Will0W783
06-07-10, 10:52 AM
Oh man, I'm so sorry it turned out that way. Are you having a necropsy done on the blood python? Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, the only really decisive way to test for it is to test brain tissue which must be done postmortem. If your vet feels confident it's IBD, then it probably was, but I'd still get the testing done to be safe. I have heard that you can't buy or sell anything for at least 1 year after the last snake shows symptoms of IBD, so if your others stay clean for the next year, you should be ok. Some people say 3 years, but my vet said he usually goes by 1 year when we were wondering if that was what my boa had. I wouldn't go testing all the others just yet, because it can take a while to show up. I would just get the brain tissue of the blood python done and go from there.
Noooo there wasn`t an autopsy unfortunatly. I couldn`t afford both the treatment AND the autopsy because I`ve had two big money things come up right at the same time. If you look back a page or two I explain about the vets reasoning for his diagnosis, even in the absence of tissue samples. If I were to lose another one, I should be able to afford an autopsy but obviously I`d rather not! The treatment remains the same with or without anyway, fumigate, clean clean clean and watch out for symptoms. Whatever happens it`s a year, as you say, nobody in, nobody out.
Every time you post Feebo, my heart jumps, because I'm afraid you've had more snakes show symptoms.
I continue to wish you all the best.
shaunyboy
06-08-10, 10:45 AM
your big carpets still doing fine so thats the best sign yet mate.carpets dont last long when theres ibd about.im not slagging your vet off as he will have gave you answers to the best of his current knowledge.i know i keep going on about my vet mate but im so lucky to have him so close to where i live.he has told me in the past there are things that throw up similar symptoms to ibd that isnt ibd.a brocken neck as willow suggested being one of the things i remember.there were a lot more mate.my vets is also the special lecturer at nottingham universty on zoo and wildlife.this guy knows his stuff mate and i have 100% faith in him. so id have to disagree with your vets resounding no on the does anything else show symptoms like ibd.ive still got everything crossed for you mate.
all the best shaun
Will0W783
06-08-10, 01:02 PM
Yeah, Shaun, I have to continue to disagree as well. There are multiple reasons why a snake would show neurological symptoms, and the fact that it ate only a week before it started showing neuro signs makes me leery of agreeing it was IBD. It's usually not that sudden, but more of a gradual progression with the regurging as the first sign. I was so sure my boa had it, but it turned out to be kidney disease and the toxicosis from the messed up calcium/phosphorus levels in his blood was causing weakness, muscle atrophy and spasms. There ARE things that will look like IBD that are not, and there is really NO way of knowing for sure without postmortem testing/autopsy. Personally, I'd have scrounged up the money somehow-I'd never be able to sleep at night not knowing for 100% sure. Best of luck to you Feebs, you're in my prayers! I really really hope it was a one-time thing and everyone else will be ok.
Well I`m facing eviction aswell Willow so I couldn`t scrounge up the money, I`m living on a financial knife edge and if I have nowhere to live, the snakes have nowhere to live. The vet said he was taking the history into account also when he said what he said. I do see your point and obviously I don`t want IBD so it being something else would be better. I just had to listen to the vet I was able to see at the time, my usual herp vet is on holiday. I just had to listen and follow his recommendations, I had to.... Arguing with him wasn`t really an option lol :) Thanks very much for your thoughts guys and girls, it means a lot :)
Azzarth
06-08-10, 05:03 PM
Feebo, reading your posts made me feel so much better about what I thought was my bad life.
I am so very sorry about your pet, hopefully that fumigator will work very well. I know what you mean by financial knife-edge, I'm going through the same thing atm. My brother broke both his legs after falling off our upper deck, our water-heater had a blow-out and flooded out entire downstairs, so we have to buy new carpet, furniture, and my Xbox was ruined :( and we just got through paying a $1,600 plumbing bill. Hopefully some good will show up in our lives, eh?
shaunyboy
06-08-10, 06:41 PM
Well I`m facing eviction aswell Willow so I couldn`t scrounge up the money, I`m living on a financial knife edge and if I have nowhere to live, the snakes have nowhere to live. The vet said he was taking the history into account also when he said what he said. I do see your point and obviously I don`t want IBD so it being something else would be better. I just had to listen to the vet I was able to see at the time, my usual herp vet is on holiday. I just had to listen and follow his recommendations, I had to.... Arguing with him wasn`t really an option lol :) Thanks very much for your thoughts guys and girls, it means a lot :)
please believe me when i say i am in no way having a go at you.im trying to give you some light at the end of the tunnel.all based on truths and facts from a vet that is most likely one of the highest qualified vets in the country right now.i cant remember the letters after his name but his jobs are as follows.
my local vet
3 days a week at edinburgh zoo
the on call surgeon for london zoo
special lecturer zoo and wildlife at nottingham universaty
i honestly believe that your vet for all his best intentions has got it wrong.im not even slagging the vet as in his heart of hearts he believes what he's saying.nor am i saying i am more intelligent.im talking from being with a mate every step of the way when dealing with his boas ibd.he didnt drive so i took him to every vet appointment.i gleamed all my information from my vet who talked us through every possibility and the outcome.as ive said on numerous occasions i am so lucky to have this guy on my door step.you have done evrything humanly possible mate.your also still not giving up hell your fumagating your snake room daily.i really do feel for you mate as i had a tiny hint of what it was like returning to my collection thats 100% morelia.thinking what if i carry it to my lot.i had helped my mate and the vet handle the snake.she was strong and all over the place even biting her own body.i couldnt knock my mate back for a lift so i just kept thinking its going to be ok (after numerous showers and a day inbetween,before i went near mines).i always remember the vet saying to my mate,your carpets will let us know before the test results come back (results take a while).so feebs your big girl is still ok and thats been 11 days since you first posted the bloods symptoms.21 days is usually the max a carpet survives,so the signs are good mate.lets hope it turns out to be a wrong diagnosis.
cheers shaun
Will0W783
06-09-10, 08:02 AM
I'm also just trying to give you some comfort and light at the end of the tunnel, that it may still turn out to be something else. I'm so sorry to hear about you financial troubles- I'm almost there too myself right now. My fiance is a car sales manager and the dealership he works at is under new management and the people figured he was making too much to have "incentive to sell more cars" so they cut his pay 40% after it had already been cut %10. He's now making $400/week BEFORE taxes plus commissions, but try to sell a ton of cars in this economy! We're living on the edge right now too, so I can totally sympathize. *hugs* I hope it works out for you.
You're doing all you can right now and fighting every step of the way to protect your other snakes, and that is the best that could be done right now. I do still think, from the quick onset, it's likely to be some sort of chemical toxicosis rather than IBD, but I don't know for sure, I just hope. Either way, you're in my prayers and I'm rooting for you and your snakes!
shaunyboy
06-09-10, 08:36 AM
same here finance wise.the last 2 years have been the worst in a long time.i left school in 1982 just as our prime minister maggie thatcher was privatising all our industrys.imo its worse today than back then.they say the credit crunch is over,but not from where im standing.when my next grandchilds born in 7 months time that will be the fourth pram ive bought in the last 12 months.at £200 a time its breaking me.now our car insurance is due in 10 days.last year i had to sell 4 of my jungles to pay some odf our kids xmas's.so its hitting us all hard mate.its getting tougher and tougher to make ends meet in the now cut throat world we are living in.im rooting for your collection and hope you all get through this bad few weeks.
i really hope your finances sort themselves out mate.
all the best shaun
dragunov.762
06-09-10, 09:19 AM
you are definitely not alone in the financial troubled world my friend i worked for a company that made honda parts and got laid off. i went from working 2 full time jobs plus being in the national guard and making a little over 2000 a month to make 700 a month with going to school full time (and taking care of kids and paying rent and every thing else people have to pay for) thank God my GF still has her job but times are tough. sorry about all your snake troubles on top of all the financial troubles and i understand lack of funds to get the autopsy but your right that it is beeter to be safe than sorry.
I`m sorry I mentioned the finanial thing now lol Wifey would go potty lol Enough of that I think!
Right, I`ve just spoken to another more qualified snake vet at the same practice. She is basically saying what you guys are saying, no tissue samples, no IBD diagnosis. I wanted to speak to her about how on earth I`m going to be able to declare my collection disease free. I can`t do that at all, but no more than anyone else can. There isn`t a 100% test. There is something that can be done post mortem but it`s very expensive and involves the snake being, well.. dead. If I lose another I`ve put money away for an autopsy so that`s sorted. Basically, if I don`t have any more deaths, and no more symptoms in a whole year, I`m then just as likely to be disease free in my snake room as anyone else. Apparently shops just won`t test for it because if one comes back positive they`re screwed and there`s just nothing they can do. So once a year has passed I`m back to where I was, I don`t know for sure, but neither does anyone else. I`ve got fifteen eggs due to hatch in a month, so I`ll be housing those for a year and THEN selling them. I think a good indicator for IBD aswell is, before I knew what was happening, and contrary to how I usually operate, I touched my big female Carpet python after touching my little Blood python that was put down. No hand washing. The Carpet should be dead by now if that was IBD. THAT, coupled with a years worth of no symptoms and no deaths, is going to have to do, like it has to do for everyone else that is unable to declare, "I don`t have IBD" My snake room has never been so clean :) On a microscopic level that is.....
shaunyboy
06-10-10, 09:05 AM
thats great news your big carpets fine mate.the only fully qualified herpetologist (im lucky he stays in the same town as my vet) i know once told me that some big importers in the states sometimes threw a carpet in with a new batch of say 100 boas.3 weeks later if the carpet was alive they deemed that batch of boas to be ibd free.me personally mate iwould sell the hatchlings as per normal.my peace of mind for doing that would be i handled the blood then the carpet and shes ok.this is just my way of thinking mate.for the record i would never sell anything i though could lead to someones collection being infected.in your case mate im pretty sure its been a false alarm brought on by a vet that wasnt up on his reptiles.its all looking good for you and im glad for that mate.:rolleyes:
cheers shaun
Lankyrob
06-10-10, 04:34 PM
Lets hope that our prayers have been answered mate then and that it was just an awful coincidence.
I will be SOOOO happy for you if you are given the "all clear". We have all been thinking of you a lot over the past weeks.
Cheers guys :) Odd.... I posted here earlier on and it`s disapeared......
shaunyboy
06-23-10, 10:39 AM
hows things mate.since we've not heard from you i'm thinking things are ok.let me know how your collections doing mate.
cheers shaun
emseeKAY
06-23-10, 11:42 AM
i'll second that havent heard from ya in a while
Yeah I`ve been busying myself and haven`t been on the internet much at all recently. It`s been good weather so lots of time in the garden! :) The snake room is still nice and quiet thankfully. I`m still fumigating often, I`ll do it at least once a week now I`ve got the thing, it`s nice knowing every nook and cranny is disinfected. No more symptoms at all. I`m thinking it wasn`t IBD at all, as is another vet I`ve spoken to as I say. My Carpets are still ok and after touching my big female right after touching the affected Blood, she should be dead by now if it was IBD. I`m still shutting up shop for a year as a precaution, it`s not like I rely on it for a living so I can afford to take such a measure. I think once that`s done, I`ll sell my big Blood python. I was going to breed but I was always a little bothered about space, even after being told by "man in shop" that two adult Bloods can live and breed in a four foot tank, I think not. Now I`ve lost the female I`m cancelling the whole Blood breeding thing, I`ll sell him and use the space for other snakes that can make better use of it. I thought maybe I might find a female Jungle Jaguar Carpet actually, I`ve alrteady got a male and a Jungle female so that would prove an interesting little threesome.... Thanks for asking guys, it all seems good, I think I`ve been relatively lucky.....
Lankyrob
06-28-10, 06:14 AM
Great to hear form you mate - and glad to hear its good news with the snakes!!!
marvelfreak
06-28-10, 02:09 PM
:)Nice to here your lucks turning around.:) To bad you didn't live in the states i buy your blood. Oh well it just nice to here your doing ok.
Cheers :) I am feeling a little more confident about the situation I must say... I`ve been in two minds as to whether to use the empty tanks I now have actually, I need to move a few snakes around. The mites are definatly gone, I`m using a really pokey disinfectant, I should think it would be ok but I`ve been putting it off for obvious reasons......
percey39
06-29-10, 04:12 AM
Just read this thread, im glad hear all is clear and all your snakes are now fine. Im sorry to hear about your losses, it always hurts when you lose one.
I hope all goes well from now and everything turns around for you on whole.
emseeKAY
06-29-10, 01:08 PM
I wish you lived closer as well, lol wouldnt mind getting some of your BRB's big genes with my males ;) i've been looking for some BRB's lately and cant seem to find any at a reasonable price, i hear they're quite tricky to breed though
I like a challenge :) I`ll be looking out for a breeding size male once this is all over, I`ve just got to breed those guys. Thankfully males will be a lot easier to find.....
shaunyboy
07-01-10, 10:45 AM
im glad all is well.its great news your getting more carpets (im a tad bias on that though).a nice 75% female jungle/jag would produce some nice 88% jungle/jags if you stuck it with your jungle male imo mate.
i just got an 07 75% irian jaya jaguar reduced pattern male its one of morphmans so its from a great german bloodline.
also got an 07 very high yellow jungle/jaguar male,im thinking of putting him with my 08 75% jungle/jaguar female with a clean spotless full back stripe.
the courier i used was not up for the job.he took the snakes to ireland with him so he picked them up in essex thursday 2pm dropped them to me monday 2pm.the van was set up with heat cables,lazer temp guns and the guy slept in it with the reptiles.i thought its no big deal taking 4 days in those conditions.
when they arrived i told him the snakes were freezing he replied " i keep them cold so they're not too lively ".
the more expensive irian/jag has developed an r.i by tuesday morning.im nebulising it with f10 15 minutes morning and night.if it gets any worse over the next 10 days i will wiegh him and start giving him the proper dose of batryl every other day.
needless to say im very angry at the service the courier provided and i will be going on the uk forum to let everyone know the guy just isnt up to the job.i asked him what temps my carpets should be kept at and he couldnt answer me.he wouldnt even tell me what temps he had them at.i am not exagerating when i say the snakes felt as cold as a can i took out my fridge.i actually thought the irian/jag was dead when it first came.the jungle jag seems ok for now but im keeping an eye on them both.
cheers shaun
Will0W783
07-02-10, 02:31 PM
Feebo, I'm so glad it seems everything is ok. I was really worried about you and your snakes. It is never easy to lose one, as they become like family members, but at least your others are ok. When I was uncertain what was wrong with my boa, I was a mess wondering if my others would get sick too. I hope you continue to stay all clear and move on with your collection and get that jungle jag soon. :)
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