Housing snakes in natural vivariums?

[Nafun]

My snakes are currently all in normal reptile enclosures, however I'm getting a garter this summer (hatch damn you!) and when he gets older I would like to make a natural vivarium for him.
I live in ohio where the specific subspecies of garter I'm getting is from (I know, because I had to get a permit to keep him), I grew up seeing them in the backyard and I got my first taste of herpetology when I rescued a garter that my mom was desperate to chop up with a shovel. I have read repeatedly that things like rocks, soil, and sand make terrible substrates, but can I make a vivarium with normal, natural plant life native to the area (grass, dandelions, duck weed, etc) and keep him in it?

I know that parasites are a risk, but I think I can avoid this by starting the vivarium sans-snake, and growing the plants from seeds.

My plan was to take a 10 gallon aquarium, cover the bottom with a mixture of washed sand and washed pea gravel, then build up soil on 2/3 of the enclosure and fill the remaining third with water. Then plant grass and weeds in the soil, and duck weed at the water's edge with an aquarium filter circulating and cleaning the water.

I know a snake can be perfectly happy on newspaper in a plastic container with holes(and that's where he'll stay until he's big enough to handle a larger enclosure), but I want to do my best to recreate natural habitat.

I want to recreate that little bit of childhood on my desk, a snake in the grass, catching fish and worms at the water's edge. I realize that a snake in tall grass is one I won't see very often, but that's part of the appeal to me, it will make it more satisfying when I do see him.

Anyway, my questions are.

Is my plan for a vivarium viable? If not, why? What changes do I need to make to make it work?
Is a full spectrum UV light sufficient for plants?
What is the best way to provide a basking spot in a vivarium?

[dragunov.762]

i don't know of any problems with what you have, thats not to say there isn't but i don't know of them. As the snake would naturally be on dirt i think if you wash it first it should be fine.
you don't need full spectrum light for plants i grow my bonsai under a normal compact florescent light and it works well. for a garter native to Ohio (where i am also from) you wouldn't need and added heat (except a basking spot or a UTH for digestion and slight thermoregulation) but nothing crazy. actually i have heard that plants do the best under the tube florescent (this is not including some of the more expensive bulbs like halogen and metal halide that will produce too much heat for the snake).
the best way i think to provide a basking spot would be a small watt basking lamp (zoo med make good quality lights). an under tank heater would help with seed germination though. i also recommend a dome with a dimmer switch (if you don't already have one) that will save you money on lights in case you bu one that is too powerful. they are easy to get (available at any hardware store) and cheap.

[infernalis]

Here is a few modifications to your plan that will ensure success....

Scrub the 10 gallon thought and invest in a 20 long. Thamnophis (regardless of sub-species) are extremely active snakes, give your new snake some room to move around. I only house mine in 10 gallon tanks during the first year or for extremely small males.

Garters also are agile climbers, they enjoy exploring and climbing, so make sure the top is secure, or the snake will find a way to reach the top of the cage and escape. (had it happen too many times myself)

Find soil that is not treated with chemicals or fertilizers, bagged potting soil almost always has nitrates added to accelerate plant growth, fertilizers can irritate the snake.

I would not worry so much about "parasites" in the soil, however many people find piece of mind by baking dirt in the oven for a bit to wipe out any organisms in the dirt.

You can also put a few night crawlers in the soil, they will help the plants grow, and if one should surface, the snake will eat it right up.



So what sub-species is it you are getting?? Radix?? Ribbon?? Eastern?? Bulter??

[Nafun]

Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis

Eastern Garter Snake

[infernalis]

Nice! That's the only species that occurs in my area at all.

What part of Ohio?? "rumor" has it there are a lot of melanistic specimens wandering around in the central region.

http://www.thamfriends.com/MPFG/images/limbo.jpg

[Nafun]

Northwest ohio. Paulding to be exact.

[infernalis]

Interesting, My wife hails from Toledo.

Please post pictures when you get the chance.

[Nafun]

It'll be a while, he hasn't hatched yet, I just have him reserved.

[infernalis]

It'll be a while, he hasn't hatched yet, I just have him reserved.

Just to clarify, Thamnophis bear live young ;)

"Reserved" would that be from Scott Felzer? (almost all my Thamnophis collection came from him)

[Nafun]

Yeah, from him.

I guess he hasn't been born yet then, had no idea they were live born.

[citysnakes]

Nafun, theres a book, "The Art of Keeping Snakes" by Phillipe de Vosjoli, that you should definitely look into before you start this project.

[infernalis]

Yeah, from him.

I guess he hasn't been born yet then, had no idea they were live born.


Any other questions, never hesitate to ask. Thamnophis are my specialty.

[Aaron_S]

Just to clarify, Thamnophis bear live young ;)

"Reserved" would that be from Scott Felzer? (almost all my Thamnophis collection came from him)

Dammit you beat me to it!

Anyways Wayne, would you know how the snake pooping is going to affect this design? Granted, it's a small, single snake but it's still a small enclosure. How would you go about cleaning this without disrupting everything?

[infernalis]

Garter poop is very liquid and absorbs into the soil quickly, in turn fertilizing the grass.

The best way to "clean" a natural viv is to make it "rain"

Heavy misting with a water bottle.

I personally gave up on natural, I have way too many snakes to maintain and the time to properly care for a natural setup is more work than the snake itself.

[emseeKAY]

I love the look of natural vivs but they can be so temperamental as Wayne said, I personally, love the look of waterfalls/fountains and think they can add a little artistic style to the viv if you make them yourself lol, some of the stuff you can find on youtube is ridiculous but cool looking, as for a natural viv, i love the concept, post some pics ASAP, id love to see it all come together!

[Nafun]

Well, It'll be a while. The snake it's for hasn't been born yet, and he'll spend at least a few months in a rubbermaid with holes in it until he gets settled. Right now it's an empty aquarium, a bag of sand, a bag of river rock, and a bag of grass seed.

[dragunov.762]

if you are still toying with the idea of a natural viv (which would be awesome but lots of work) remember that any type of native plant (trees and shrubs especially) will need the cold winters or they will die. i don't know if you were planing on growing a small tree or not but you would need to get a tropical species if you do (once again i don't know your full plan just throwing it out there)

[Nafun]

I won't be going with trees and shrubs, the enclosure just isn't that big (29 gallon aquarium). However, I was planning to let garters brumate, which they could do in a tub while the vivarium enjoys the full onslaught of winter.

[dragunov.762]

thats probably the best way to do it

[infernalis]

That all depends.. I never brumate my males or my non breeding garters. They all do just fine and I have the added pleasure of enjoying them all year round.

Those of us who brumate for breeding usually only chill the snakes for 4-6 weeks to trigger ovulation, then bring them back out for breeding.

[diamond]

Nafun, theres a book, "The Art of Keeping Snakes" by Phillipe de Vosjoli, that you should definitely look into before you start this project.
This book seems to be interesting

[Jennet]

This book seems to be interesting
That book is ace if you are considering 'natural' vivaria

If you are thinking of having both land and water area, the easiest way is to divide the tank and then work with the seperate sides - that way, you can clean out your 'water' area far easier.

Best of luck