New Ball seems sick - advice needed

[stlphotogal]

I'm so frustrated and a bit freaked out about this :confused: - as per my original post, we picked up our new ball python (our first snake) on 3/28/10 and last night while holding her we noticed a mite crawling on her - to top it off we noticed that she was whistling from her nose when she breathed (I've not heard that before yesterday but she's not breathing out of her mouth) so we are taking her to the vet this evening to have her checked out. I called the shop we purchased her from and they said that they don't have any guarantee's in writing as to the health of their animals :mad: (stupid of us not to ask ahead of time I suppose but she seems healthy apart from those two issues). I should mention she's not eaten since we got her (although we've tried a couple of times). We are feeding frozen mice (2) and she initially shows interest but then doesn't eat. She's appx. 30" long and about 2" at most around at her largest point.
Her tank details are as follows:
Temps: 78-82 on the cool side, 86-90 on the warm side, 55% humidity steady with occasional misting. I have a UTH on her warm side that stays on all the time, a UVB bulb, and a 75 watt bulb in a ceramic reflector for warmth. We keep her lights on from 8a-8p and then leave them off (with on the UTH for warmth @ night) - temps in our house have been averaging about 75 for the past week. She has two hides, one on the cool side and one on the warm side, a 9" bowl (of which she's not been spending any significant amount of time in - i.e. dip in, and then out once or twice), and a branch for her to climb/shed against. Her tank is a 18 x 18 x 36 glass with a locking screen lid.

Any advice/help/calming words/vibes would be helpful...thanks so much.

Angela

[infernalis]

OK, The mites are a bear but easily fixed.

You MUST strip down the enclosure and clean it with bleach and rinse it out with hot water.

Soak the hides, wash the bowl and replace the bedding.

The wheezing sounds like a respiratory issue, the vet is a great idea....

[emseeKAY]

as infernalis said a vet is a good idea, and if there is A mite, there is bound to be more than just one. also do you have any other reptiles? if so it will be a good idea to remove them from the same room as the BP as well as the other reptiles (that is, if you have any more :D) good luck hope it helps!

[citysnakes]

you'll definitely need to treat the snakes enclosure with Provent-A-Mite if you want to permanently be rid of the infestation as well as treating any other snakes enclosures in the house(assuming you have more that one).

ask your vet to do a bacterial culture to determine what antibiotics are needed to fight off the respiratory infection(if RI is the diagnosis). dont just let them prescribe you some broad spectrum antibiotic that may not even be effective in treating your specific case and result in you doing the culture anyway and another round of antibiotics.

[mykee]

I recommend Nix over PAM any day.
It's easier to find, cheaper and more effective in my opinion. It also won't stink you out of your home, or choke you half to death if you decide to stay.
Do a search and you'll find hundreds of thread on the topic.

[shaunyboy]

i recommend prevent-a-mite.you take everything out the tank spray it with prevent a mite.then spray the tank.DO NOT SPRAY WATER BOWL OR SNAKE.leave everything for 2 hours then put the tank back how it was and thats it.prevent a mite stays active for 30 days.it kills all the mites then waits on the mite eggs hatching and kills them too.you can repeat the treatment after 30 days.i have never had to do this as this product has worked first time everytime for me.it comes from the states,you get a lot of use out a can.somewhere around 30 to 40 tanks it will do.imo you get your moneys worth from this treatment and it has never let me down.it costs me £28 delivered to my door.as said it comes from the states so you should get it a bit cheaper i would think.the whistling from the nose sounds like an R.I. has the snake shed recently ? as some times a bit shed stuck in the nostril can make the same noise.i also rescued a snake once and after treating it for an r.i. it got a clean bill of health.but to this day it still whistles out one nostril as it was damaged by the r.i. like you said a trip to the vet will give you piece of mind.its also not uncommen for snakes with an r.i. to go off their food.best of luck with your treatments,i'm sure you'll do just great.
cheers shaun


p.s. if its a bit shed stuck up a nostril it needs the vet to reverse flush it with a catheter.they put the catheter inside the snakes mouth and flush the nostril so its nice and clean and whistle free.you usually have to give the snake warm baths for a week or two before the flush can be done.

[Will0W783]

I have to agree with Mykee on the Nix method. I have used it several times in the past always with excellent results. It kills not only adults, but eggs and larvae and it's relatively non-toxic to the snakes, unlike Provent-a-mite and most other commercial mite treatments.
What you do is go to your local Wal-mart, pharmacy or such, and get a box of 56oz Nix lice cream rinse. Dissolve the cream in a gallon of distilled water- this may take some doing. Shake it all up, and pour into a clean spray bottle (it's better to get one that hasn't been previously used). You will want to remove all bedding and furniture from the cage and the snake. Spray down the cage very thoroughly and put down clean paper towels. Spray the paper towels. Then spray the snake very well, making sure to get all around the face and throat. Put the snake back into the enclosure and remove the water bowl for 24 hours. Put it back after the 24 hours and repeat the whole process in a week and another week after that, for 3 total treatments.

[citysnakes]

it's relatively non-toxic to the snakes, unlike Provent-a-mite and most other commercial mite treatments.


Im not really sure how you came up with that conclusion as both Provent-A-Mite and Nix, and most likely many commercial mite treatments, contain the exact same chemical. Permethrin is a commonly used insecticide with an apparently low toxicity to mammals but is great at killing cold blooded pests(obviously including your pet reptiles). Only one of the mite treatments mentioned in this thread has been developed and tested for the purpose of eradicating snake mites but both of these treatments can be effective and both can kill your reptiles if used improperly. Is one option better than the other? Well they both do the job...

[infernalis]

any opinions on this......I have a bottle that was given to me by a friend.

Natural Chemistry De Flea Reptile Relief

http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/7/717108110356C.jpg

[Will0W783]

Don't know, as I have never used it. They sell it at the pet store I frequent, but when their snakes get mites they only use Nix.

[shaunyboy]

i'm with citysnakes on this.prevent-a-mite was develped for snakes.the stuff your using willow was not.from what i gather this nix stuff is designed to kill human lice ? (please correct me if i'm wrong) i'd rather use something that was designed for use on reptiles.ive never seen your product before infernalis,but it is designed for reptiles.
cheers shaun

[Will0W783]

Yes Nix was designed to kill human lice, but it does kill snake mites very effectively, smells nice and is relatively non-toxic to the snakes. It is also a heck of a lot cheaper than PAM. I understand if you're leery of it, but I will continue to use it when the need arises (God willing it won't again, but you never know).

[infernalis]

Rubbing the whole snake down with light olive oil works well to eradicate mites, it makes their skin shiny and was the method people used ages ago.

But you still have to bleach out the cage, change out the bedding substrate and boil all the hides and water bowl.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My personal opinion of this product is "it's rubbish" If you are lucky, you may drown a mite or two, but it is not effective at all.

http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/shop/shop_image/product/d64ce7e45bf3130510a62b27e11600ea.jpg

[mykee]

Rubbing the whole snake down with light olive oil works well to eradicate mites, it makes their skin shiny and was the method people used ages ago.

Dude! Seriously?..

[infernalis]

Yes very seriously, I would not suggest it over the more proven modern methods, but the oil clogs up the mites ability to breathe and kills them.

the downside is it does nothing to kill the eggs.

Back before we had all these fab products available to us, oiling the snake was THE method of getting rid of mites.

[citysnakes]

Dude! Seriously?..

my thoughts exactly...

and i would also never recommend wasting money on the products pictured in this thread.

[shaunyboy]

Yes Nix was designed to kill human lice, but it does kill snake mites very effectively, smells nice and is relatively non-toxic to the snakes. It is also a heck of a lot cheaper than PAM. I understand if you're leery of it, but I will continue to use it when the need arises (God willing it won't again, but you never know).

the point i was trying to make was provent a mite has been designed for snakes so should have had the appropriate testing done on it.when they test human products snakes dont come into the equasion.this is only my humble opinion but there must be plenty products that cause no problems for humans but might for a reptile.for peace of mind i prefer to use the safest form available imo something designed for the job in hand.i'm not trying to be cheeky but i do not see the relavance in it smelling nice or the cost for that matter.if it has not been tested for snakes im curious as to how anyone would know how toxic it can be towards them long term.i do not doubt you when you say it works but i get more peace of mind using prevent a mite.
cheers shaun

[Will0W783]

There isn't any relevance really to it smelling nice. I am not trying to be cheeky either, but it's the only stuff I will use because I've seen myself how effective it is and how safe it is for the snakes. PAM you can only spray in the enclosure and you have to make sure it's dry before you put the snake back in. The Nix you just spray right on the snake and within an hour you'll see dead mites fall off the snake.
If you google it there is a paper on it that a well-known breeder wrote. He used it for over 20 years in his collection and never had a bad reaction to it. He also prophylactically treated snakes that he took to shows- he would treat them as soon as he got them home just in case- often several times a year, and never had problems.

I know it wasn't made for reptiles, but I just like how quickly it works and how easy it is to buy, mix up, use and keep on hand. I have personally never used PAM, but I did research on it and chose Nix over it because of ease of use and effectiveness at killing eggs.

[infernalis]

One way to look at it is also like this, My vet has administered drugs to my snakes before that were specifically designed for dogs...

Worm meds, pain meds etc....

The vet also prescribed Silvadine cream, this is a human antibiotic.

NIX and common mite treatments all contain the same active ingredients.

[mykee]

Nix:
1. Cheap (one $12 bottle will treat 100+ snakes if diluted properly). That's 12 cents a treatment.
2. Easy to find: any drugstore.
3. Very easy to use: spray everything.
4. Kills all three stages of mites.
5. Won't harm the users respiratory system like PAM.

[infernalis]

Excellent point Mykee....

The warnings on PAM have always concerned me.

[Aaron_S]

i'm with citysnakes on this.prevent-a-mite was develped for snakes.the stuff your using willow was not.from what i gather this nix stuff is designed to kill human lice ? (please correct me if i'm wrong) i'd rather use something that was designed for use on reptiles.ive never seen your product before infernalis,but it is designed for reptiles.
cheers shaun

You know if we use this way of thinking then I wouldn't be using rubbermaids as enclosures or paper towels as substrate. Let's not forget my flower pot hide boxes. None of these were designed for reptiles but work better or as well as any reptile specific product. In fact, I don't think there's anything I own except my thermostat that was invented purely for the use of reptiles!

[mykee]

In fact, I don't think there's anything I own except my thermostat that was invented purely for the use of reptiles!
You forgot rats Sir. Rats were invented for exclusive use as snake food.

[infernalis]

and Lizard food ;)

[mykee]

...and lizard food.

[Will0W783]

A lot of products may not have been invented just for reptiles, but work very well for them. I think it's really just a personal choice in the end. I like Nix, and I know a lot of people who do, but I also know a lot of people who swear by pest strips and Provent-a-mite. I just personally prefer the least toxic stuff I can use.

[Aaron_S]

You forgot rats Sir. Rats were invented for exclusive use as snake food.

They are bred for snake (and lizard) food but doesn't mean they were "invented" for such means ;)

[Will0W783]

I think Mykee was making a joke....
I think we were all kidding around. But in all seriousness, there are a lot of products out there that will treat mites, but as far as I know Nix is the only one that will kill eggs that haven't hatched yet.

[citysnakes]

guys, no matter what chemical you decide to use just be careful with it and follow directions because all chemicals have potential side effects and can be dangerous to you and your animals if misused.

[shaunyboy]

You know if we use this way of thinking then I wouldn't be using rubbermaids as enclosures or paper towels as substrate. Let's not forget my flower pot hide boxes. None of these were designed for reptiles but work better or as well as any reptile specific product. In fact, I don't think there's anything I own except my thermostat that was invented purely for the use of reptiles!


aaron your an intelligent guy,so i'm left here wondering why you would think i would apply the same concerns to something as simple as hides,rubbermaids,etc as i do towards chemicals that can effect my snakes.all i was giving was my own personal view on what i use and why i chose to use it.the subject matter was chemicals used to kill mites,not vivarium furnishings.i have no problem adapting safe objects to furnish your tanks but surely chemicals are a whole different and more complicated matter.
cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

A lot of products may not have been invented just for reptiles, but work very well for them. I think it's really just a personal choice in the end. I like Nix, and I know a lot of people who do, but I also know a lot of people who swear by pest strips and Provent-a-mite. I just personally prefer the least toxic stuff I can use.


couldnt agree more willow,its down to personal choice.at the end of the day as long as the method you choose.

1.does no harm to the snake
2.does the job required
3.gives the keeper peace of mind

then all is well in snakeland...!!
cheers shaun

[Chu'Wuti]

About a year ago, there was a thread about mites in which the owner tried the olive oil method. As I recall, the snake began losing scales; it made me very leery of ever trying olive or any other oil for mites. It may have been the way the owner did the treatment, of course; I wouldn't know for sure.

I've read a lot about using Nix, all good. Haven't read as much about Provent-a-Mite, but haven't read anything bad about it other than it costs more than Nix.

Many of the products sold in pet stores for fleas & other pests are not very strong and do not work well.

With ALL treatments, it's important to follow directions carefully and monitor your animal for stress or other negative responses.

Good luck!

[Will0W783]

I wouldn't use oil- if the snake has a particularly hot basking area, it could get burned because oil heats up very quickly. It wouldn't get hot enough to cook the snake, but could give it burns. I still stand behind Nix. But in the case of the OP's snake, I think it needs a vet visit to check for RI too.

[mykee]

Ok, just to shed some new light on this whole mite debate:
I can come at this as someone who has personally used both products and can intelligently make these claims;

1. Both worked.
2. Both products killed all mites, and all eggs never to have the problem arise again in my collection.
3. Both snakes survived the ordeal and went on to lead healthy stable lives.

Now, that we have cleared up the effectiveness of each product for coming through with their claims,
Through my personal experience, I can critique both products unbiasedly:

Cost/Availability:
PAM:
I purchased PAM through a pet store near where I lived at the time for I believe $24. The bottle had roughly 3-5 (double treatments) in it.
Cost per treatment: $4.50-$8.

Nix:
I purchased a 28ml bottle of Nix at my local drugstore for $12. I mixed a third of the bottle into 2 liters of water. Enough mixture to effectively (double treat) over 50 snakes and their environments.
Cost per treatment: $0.08.

Ease of use:
PAM:
Removed snake, furnishings and water dish from enclosure. Spray as per directions. Wait as long as directions say. Replace snake, all furnishings and new bedding.
Problem: The fumes from this product forced me to leave the house for hours. Breathing in this chemical (the same one used in Nix BTW) caused me to cough and hack as well as become light headed.

Nix:
Remove water dish and substrate. Spray it all. Replace water dish and substrate.

Nix wins! If both products work as described, using the SAME active ingredient BUT one of these products would have definitely have melted my alveoli, it's pretty clear to me which product stands out. I'll stick with Nix AND recommend it to anyone who has mite issues.

[infernalis]

And if you have school aged kids, you probably already have some NIX laying around.

about twice a year during school, we have to buy nix anyways.

[mykee]

Wayne, for $hits and giggles whenever I go into the drugstore to purchase Nix, I stand at the counter furiously scratching my head and neck.
Great fun.

[infernalis]

do people move away???

Carry a picture of your snakes, then tell the pharmacist "I need nix for my balls"

or "my balls have bugs" "there's little black specks moving all over my balls"

[Lankyrob]

oh dear!! ;)

[mykee]

LOL! The ball jokes abound...

[mykee]

LOL! The ball jokes abound.
"My balls have mites!!! Oh the horror!!!"

[Will0W783]

Wayne, for $hits and giggles whenever I go into the drugstore to purchase Nix, I stand at the counter furiously scratching my head and neck.
Great fun.

Oh my God, that is too funny! I may have to do that next time.....hehehehe.