What makes a jaguar?

[marvelfreak]

What cross with what makes a jag or is it a morph? And how many different kinds of jags are there?

[shaunyboy]

the jaguar carpet python is a co - dominant colour and pattern mutation.a guy called jan eric engell of denmark produced the first jag.he put 2 coastal carpet pythons together,they produced one strange looking hatchling (a jaguar).he bred the hatchling back to the parent and got roughly half the clutch jags the rest normal.as said the jaguars are a proven co - dominant colour and pattern mutation of the coastal carpet python.breeding jaguars to jaguars seems to produce new types of jaguar pattern mutations in many clutches.so far:hypo jags,red hypo jags,super hypo jags,super red hypo jags all with reduced melanin,have come out of regular jaguar breedings.the jags colours improove as they mature,the brightest yellows showing from 3 years onwards.there have been leucistic jaguars produced but none have lived.numerous leucistics jaguars have been seen in their eggs and a few have hatched only to survive for several hours,the longest being 3 days.some breeders think that this could be a lethal gene others disagree and feel its merely bad luck.one other theory is that the breeding of parents who produced these clutches could have been too closely related.no one really knows at this stage,a lot of breeders are confident that its only a matter of time before a healthy leucistic is produced.what an amazing sight that would be...!! hope this all helps marvelfreak.
cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

heres a picture of my coastal jag,he's got an axanthic look to him.
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/025.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/027.jpg
my hatchling 75% jungle x jaguar
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/spilota01/rose.jpg
the hatchling was produced by mum = 50% jungle /50%jaguar. dad pure jungle.so a 75%jungle 25% jaguar,hence the 75%jun/jag
cheers shaun

[gonesnakee]

Not to be picky but IMHO you should not refer to them as a 50% Jungle 50% Jaguar as IMHO all it does is lead to additional confusion.
A Jaguar is a Jaguar no matter what subspecies it consists of there is no percentage of Jaguar other than 100% or 0% & of course no hets so no percentages there either again either 100% or 0%.
It is the percentage of Coastal present to which you refer ;)
It is actually (most likely???) a 50% Jungle 50% Coastal & IMHO should be refered to as such. Afterall an actual "Jaguar" can be ANY mix of ANY of the Carpet species.
Too many folks get confused enough as it is when it comes to Jaguars.
I know (or think I know LOL) what you mean, however calling it a 50% Jungle 50% Coastal leaves no doubts, get where I'm coming from.
I always try to talk about Jaguars in actual percentages of actual subspecies as of course a "Jaguar" as stated can be any mix & could also contain multiple different subspeices as well.
It either is a Jaguar or is not so why even state "Jaguar" when you are actually refering to Coastal. Of course ALL Jaguars have some Coastal in them no matter what, but to refer to their percentage as "Jaguar" rather than "Coastal" gets rather confusing to most.
I'll call my 50% Jungle 50% Coastal Jaguar a 50% Jungle Jag, but will state its 50% JCP 50% CCP as thats what it is as far as Jaguar goes its 100% Jaguar as they all are, as they either are or are not. The percentages don't refer to whether it is a Jaguar of not, but rather what percentages of subspecies the Jaguar is made up of.
Not to nitpick but I try to make it as straight forward as possible.
Like if I have a Jaguar that is the result of breeding a 50% Diamond 50% Coastal Jaguar to an IJ I would call it a 25% Diamond 25% Coastal 50% IJ Jaguar or an IJ Diamond Jaguar, not 25% Diamond 25% Jaguar 50% IJ. Cheers Mark

[marvelfreak]

Shaun and Mark thank you very much. That help a lot. Shaun you got some really nices looking jags there. You both were very helpful. Mark you made my head hurt with all the % talk. :confused: LOL Just messing with you. Actaully i always wonder if the % really made much differents. So because a (jag) is a morph it the % of coastal or % of what ever other carpet it cross with that matters ? If it a jag it 100% because this is a morph. I believe i got it. Is there any true to the whole jags having a head twitch? Also i know a few people on here have jags. If you do post some pics. You know you want to. Perfect chance to show them off. LOL:)

[shaunyboy]

gonesnakee your 100% correct,its my bad.i was trying to keep it simple and have done the exact oposite.i was trying to explain why it was refered to over here as a 75%'er.so i should have just explained the jungle side of it.on the jag thing you have explained it much better as your right its " either a jag or not ".its a colour and pattern mutation and it either has it or it has'nt.we desribe the 50%'s the same over here,they are merely jungle/jags.thanks for clearing that up.i too would call what you spoke about a ij/d/jag.when you put a pure jungle into a jungle jag,do you advertise them as jungle/jags ? and dont refer to percentages.i understand my mistake on the 25% coastal thing.
cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

marvelfreak,like gonesnakee said its either a jag or not.if it has the jag pattern mutation,then its a jag.if it dont then its not.i'm sorry for any confusion i may have caused.i was refering to the percentage of jungle influence in that particular snake.the more jungle you put back in the more influence it has over the colour.it has no influence on the jag pattern side of things,again as gonesnakee said its either 100% jag or 0% jag.i should have approached this as 2 seperate issues.on the jag head shake thing.i personally have had no problems.i have read of people who have and they think there are neuro issues with jags.
cheers shaun
p.s.i must admit my heads hurting a bit now,percetages are not my strongest point.

[marvelfreak]

Shaun thank! Don't worry you you didn't cause me any confusion. You both help me learn a lot i didn't know about this beautful snakes. Love to see some pictures of everyones jags. (hint,hint)

[gonesnakee]

I think no matter what way its described it gets a little confusing LOL
I always like to point out the known percentages as a Jungle jag could be anywhere from 50% Jungle to 75% or even 87.5% & so on (or less) LOL
I have a breeding here right now between a Coastal Jaguar (100%) & a Jungle Jaguar (50/50) so if that works out they will be 75% Coastal & 25% Jungle, still a Jungle Jag but a much smaller percentage of Jungle than most other JJs, specially compared to a 75% or 87.5% Jungle one.
On the head thing I do not think all Jaguars have it but some definitely do.
I had one of my Diamond Jaguars (50/50s) have some "motor skills" issues so I have seen it first hand.
I too think it may have something to do with the gene & maybe comes more into play with Jaguar to Jaguar breedings, thus the "fatal white gene" thing as well as mentioned above. There has been so much outcrossing with Jaguars now that it shouldn;t be a close relation type issue IMHO, but more related to the gene itself somehow? Mark

[marvelfreak]

So here's some really cool pics of jags. This aren't my pics. Really love to see pictures of anyone who as a jag. (hint Hint) the forth one is a really cool morph. 8906

8907

8908

8909

8910

[shaunyboy]

will leary's red hypo jag in the 2nd last picture imo is the ultimate jag.i dream of owning a jag like that. :freakedout: the 2nd pic i like a lot too.
thanks for the pic's mate.
cheers shaun