Love is in the air!

[Will0W783]

I just got a new arboreal caging setup. It's a massive glass and tile and aluminum cage: 6.5' tall x 4.5' wide x 2.5' deep inside dimensions. I divided it down the middle with Plexiglas and put 5 scorched PVC perches on either side along with hanging plastic plants and vines. I put my GTP pair on one side and my ETB on the other.
I was a bit concerned at first because the male GTP seemed scared and peeved. But when I woke up this morning......

:D They didn't waste any time. The female is 4.5 years old and 1800g and the male is 7 years old and proven breeder. I am hoping they continue on their lovin' streak and give me some bright little wormies this year. We will see. It's a bit late in the season- honestly I didn't expect it this year, but the new caging can comfortably house them all with far more room than they had in their original separate cages.

[Hillsberry]

Awwwwww!! Good luck!!! :P

[Will0W783]

I am sooo excited- I want to tell everyone..lol.:D

[Rham_Es-Hestos]

I feel left out. I could have heard about this before now. :( Thanks. 'friend'


Jes kiddin. :D Hope you get a nice clutch out of this.

[Aaron_S]

That's pretty cool but did you witness any actual copulation? I can't see if there is from the pic. Best of luck to you!

[emseeKAY]

ouuuu :) very nice! good luck! :D

[siz]

Cool, good luck with them :) You should post a picture of the setup(s).

[infernalis]

awe "Snake Porn"

[Will0W783]

Thanks for all the kind words guys! I am so incredibly excited about this. I thought it was too late in the season for them, but apparently not. Yes I did witness actual copulation. I couldn't get a better picture with my lousy phone camera, but I did see the hemipene inserted, and he was stroking her with his spurs and moving up and down a bit. They separated about noon, and last night he was chasing her around again and they seemed locked up again this morning. They had their tails wrapped together but this time I couldn't see the insertion- they had to hide it from me...grrr. The male, Archimedes, does this really neat throat puffing when he's chasing Mystique around the cage and he rubs his head all over her. I've never seen actual snake courting behavior, so it's a really neat experience for me so far. I'm watching them like a hawk, and keeping a little journal.
Their new cage has much much better thermal gradients in it so she should be able to move around and bask comfortably should she begin to show signs of being gravid. If she looks to be ovulating and is noticeably fatter, I will remove her and put her in a separate cage so he doesn't keep tormenting her. As soon as my other female comes out of quarantine (just got her Monday- see Sunset thread) I will let her in there for Archimedes to have his way with too...lol. He's a randy little fellow.

[marvelfreak]

Cool, good luck with them :) You should post a picture of the setup(s).
Best of luck and I got my fingers cross for you. Some pics of your set would be cool. Pleassssse! Don't make us beg. LOL

[Will0W783]

Lol. I will try to get some pictures tonight. It's just ticking me off that the door on one side is all fogged up. We spent forever working on it and apparently it's double-paned glass that someone let moisture into and it's fogged between the panes but sealed so we can't get into it. I will have to buy a new door so I can properly view my pretty ETBs. But the GTP side is clear so I will get shots of them tonight. They will probably be doing it again, the horny little devils...hehehehe.

[shaunyboy]

awe "Snake Porn"

put on a barry white album,then it will be snake love.i hope the happy couple have some mini me's soon willow.

[Will0W783]

I do too! Mystique was coiled very tightly this morning, and Archimedes was rubbing all over her, trying to get her to accept him again. You could almost imagine her saying, "Go...away...tired....no...more...." lol
I've caught two definite locks and 3 other times when he was trying. Since I don't have a video camera, I have no idea what they do when I'm asleep, but I know they have to be locked for a good several hours for him to deposit sperm. Hopefully over the next few weeks they will breed more and it will take. If not, there is always next year. At the very least, I know they will breed.

[Will0W783]

Well, this has been an awful weekend. Mystique, the female, was definitely gravid, but she had complications. Friday morning I found her limp in her water dish and rushed her to my vet. He said she had dumped too much into making the eggs and gave her calcium and fluid injections. She was to go back this evening, but she passed away last night. Poor thing, I wish I hadn't tried to breed her, but she was 4 years old and plump and 1100g and in all outward appearances in prime condition. I will miss her, sweet girl, and chalk this up to one of those things that just happens.

[Lankyrob]

So so so sorry for your loss Willow, the worse thing about keeping any pets is when they are no longer with us. We lost a cat this weekend that we had for about 8 years after rescuing it and it does hit hard when it happens.

At the end of the day she had a wonderful keeper and a lovely life with you - hope you are well.

[Will0W783]

I'm so sorry to hear about your cat Rob. It's devastating to lose a pet. Thank you for your kind words though. I cried when I took Mystique to the vet, and when he gave her the calcium and she perked up and started looking around, I thought she had a chance. I cried when I found her last night. At least she isn't suffering though.
I know this is something that happens when you breed snakes, especially with chondros, as they are delicate. It doesn't make it any easier, but at least I know it wasn't something I did.

[shaunyboy]

willow i am so sorry to hear that she passed away.its no ones fault,as you said just one of those things,mother nature at her cruelest.
my condolances shaun

just read your post lanky rob,i'm sorry to hear of your loss mate.your right the downside of keeping living things is they pass away.
my condolances shaun

you have to dwell on the good times,they help get us through all the cr*p life throws at us.

[Lankyrob]

The good certainly outweighs the bad with keeping any animals and after my last few years i am getting pretty good at finding the positives in life!!

Many thanks for your thoughts Shaun and Willow

[infernalis]

Condolences to both of you.

[Feebo]

Ooooh bugger. :( Sorry to hear that Willow :( That takes me back to a conversation we had a while back. They really can look absolutely fine can`t they? But then suddenly drop dead... It`s awful when you see one of your snakes die, I`m really sorry to hear it....

[Will0W783]

Thank you guys for all the kind words. It was a tough blow for a first time breeding, but I am ok and will learn from it and next time calcium supplement the female and make sure she's a few years older even. My vet recommended waiting until the female GTPs are 6-7 yaers old rather than the generally accepted 4 to make sure they are fully matured and strong enough to handle the strain.

[emseeKAY]

sorry for your loss guys :( always sucks losing a member of the fam, do these things usually happen while breeding chondros?

[Will0W783]

They can happen. While they are not the norm, they are not that uncommon. Chondros are a delicate species, and any number of things can go wrong: poor ovulation, burst ovary, reabsorbed follicles (this doesnt hurt the snake usually, just means no babies), calcium depletion and weakening of the mother, egg-binding. These things can and do happen to any species of snake, but they seem to be more common in chondros and emerald tree boas, which are both delicate species, from what my vet told me.

[shaunyboy]

my mate had a hognose who had a double clutch,it went the same way with the lack of calcium.it looked like it was having seizures and spasms.its mouth was gapping open all the way through it.it was a horrible thing to witness.
cheers shaun

[Will0W783]

Ooh, that is awful. Mystique didn't have seizures or anything- she was too weak to. She just got progressively weaker and more lethargic. I didn't notice at first because she was just coiled on her branch and I was trying not to mess with her too much since I knew she was developing follicles. I didn't know until she fell off the branch and couldn't get back up. By then I guess it was too late and she was too far gone. That's the problem with our exotic friends- in the wild they have to be able to conceal illness and weakness very well or they become someone else's dinner, so in captivity they don't show us they are sick until they are very very sick and by that point it's often too late.

[Hillsberry]

Awwww man Kim I am so sorry! :'( Well at least she knows you tried your best to save her. She will be missed! So sorry again. :(

[marvelfreak]

Kimberly and Rob you both have my condolence. May you remember the joy they brought you.