Help.

[ColbyKun]

Umm my snake has been completely fine. She's a 6-7 month old hypostripe corn snake. We just found her lying on her back curled up. What does this mean? Shes barely moving.

[eatnom21]

make sure your temps and humidity levels are correct... how often do you feed her and are you feeding her enough. she may just be basking but if you are that concerned research it or take her to a vet....you may find similar cases online

hope this helps.

[Will0W783]

Ok, well let's get the simple stuff out of the way- what's the temperature in the cage at both ends? When is the last time she shed/ate/defecated?
Lying on the back curled up does not sound too good- could be a large number of things. I'm sorry I just noticed this thread now- how is she currently?

[ColbyKun]

Umm she died in my hands when I picked her up. It was really sad. :'( She ate 3-4 days ago. Think she was constipated. Had a huge...crap. Umm Im not sure about tank temps on both side, I just ordered another thermometer 2 weeks ago but there has been a delay. The one in the middle is 20-22 degrees C. It is nice and warm on the warm side and the cool side seems rather nice and cool. I did find mould on the log hide so I cleaned that and sparayed the tank with special reptile friendly disinfectant from the pet shop. She was out at the time. i wiped it and put everything back in. I was a bit worried but not too worried since they live in the wild and stuff with moss and well, mould is everywhere in the wild. Came back in today and she was curled up on her back. I picked her up, she moved a bit then stopped and died. :'( She ate very well and was never vicous to me. Hasn't shed because I've only had her for 2 weeks and seemed completely fine and was so lovely. Im sad shes gone. Beautiful snake. How the hell do all my snakes die or go missing. Everytime I buy a new home for them, they die. Im not doing anything wrong with the vivarium or feeding. I watch how to care for them, how to feed the snake, how to set up their vivariums, and the info. But I do hear shop breeders usually dont give out the best snakes. I don't know. I'm too sad to bother with that.

[Will0W783]

Colby, first of all, I'm so sorry you lost another snake. It is always hard to lose a pet. But I think I do have some advice for you- if the temp 20-22 celsius is in the middle of the tank, that is waaaay too cold. Your cool end should be 24-26, your warm end should be around 30, and you can offer a basking spot of up to 32. Also, mold is a big problem. If your cage developed mold, it means that you were not cleaning it often enough. Corn snakes generally do not need as much humidity as pythons, and if you are misting aspen bedding you need to change it frequently and keep a close eye on it and all furnishings for mold, as aspen molds very easily. I only mist my corns if I see they are in shed. Otherwise, they have their water bowls. Mold can cause fungal infections, although I doubt it was a fungal infection if it was a sudden death thing. Hatchling corns, well hatchling anything, can be very delicate and you can lose them easily. I am very sorry for your loss.

[ColbyKun]

Oh crap. I got told 22. Ah damn it. Well I'm getting a bulb then. Thetank seemed quite warm still. Will a bulb do a lot of difference in heat wise from 22? Will it make it go to 30? I've ordered two faunariums so I can't put a bulb in that. I didnt really get a chance to clean it. I was planning to clean it every 2 and a half weeks. Only been 2 weeks. The aspen didn't mold, the log hide did at the back so i didnt see that. I didn't even realise it would mold. Why does mold effect them that bad by the way? Since they bury in moss and when in wild, they must come across mold? Curious about that, not doubting your info. =] You dont need a lamp for a little plastic faunarium right, just a heat mat? Stupid Supplier shouldn't of delayed or snake would probably be alive. I'll save for a lamp and the accesories for the lamp and that for the wooden vivarium. What humidity should it be at? Fed up of crappy sites with wrong info. Not this one though.

[ColbyKun]

Oh and what is your recommended substrate?

[Insid3r]

Can't mold be prevented if you got good ventilation?

I'm currently using Zoo Med Repti Bark in all my snake terrariums.

[Will0W783]

For corn snakes I do recommend aspen. Repti-bark would also work, but most people I know keep corns on aspen. They really don't require extra humidity. Like I said, I don't mist them unless I see they are in shed, and even then only like once every other day. I don't use log hides, or anything that can mold. If you got mold, you either had too much humidity or too little ventilation, or both. I've had mold problems when I first started, and I clean my rack tubs every week and spot-clean poop and pee out whenever I see it, as the rack tubs tend to hold humidity better than tanks and therefore mold more easily if not kept very clean. Heat is the most important thing to snakes, as they cannot generate their own body heat like we can. They depend completely on you for supplying them with a proper heat source. You should always have a basking spot in a cage; whether it be heated with a lamp or heat tape or UTH, there should always be a small spot of concentrated warmth for the snake to go to heat itself up. Without proper heat gradient, they cannot regulate their temperature, and the enzymes in their bodies will not work properly. They will not be able to digest, or produce the proteins and vitamins and things they need. If you have a plastic cage or something that you cannot use a lamp or other heat source with, do not keep snakes in it. It's just not the best idea. The plastic will not hold the necessary heat for the snake and if you use a lamp it will mold. I would get a few 10-gallon glass aquariums with screen lids.

[ColbyKun]

It has good ventillation. It actually moulded my the ventillation. I clean poo out whenever I see it so thats daily. When I said I was planning to clean it, I meant take everything out etc. The plastic tank can have a UTH. Thats the main heat sources atm. I am using heat mats with everything. Umm I think 10 gallon tanks are too big for hatchling snakes and probably get stressed. My shipment has evetually been dispatched. Bit late. I tried with fish tanks but really expensive and lots of escape bits. Also, I'm not sure what thermostat to get for bulb or mat from Net Pet Shop Pet Store is the best online Pet Shop for Pet Supplies in the UK (http://www.netpetshop.co.uk) thats where i buy my stuff. There okay in the plastic tank because thats made for snakes. =] Can the thermometer tell heat of a heat mat? My thermometer is the exo terra one that you stick on the wall. So I can't take it off. If I buy a thermostat, can I turn up the heat of the heat mat so it is suited for the snake?

[Will0W783]

The stick-on thermometers are crap. They are not at all accurate. Considering the trouble you are having, you really need a digital thermometer or rheostat. And even if the plastic cages are listed as being ok for snakes, they are not good homes for them. I know which cages you are talking about, and they would be ok if you had a fully heated room and only needed to add a little extra heat. But unless you have a whole room temp-controlled for snakes, I would not use them. Buy yourself a proper snake enclosure- melamine or fish tank. Fish tanks are not the best either, but it would be a lot better than what you have. And a hatchling corn would be fine in a 10-gallon tank. Corns are far more active than ball pythons so they can use the extra space. Just make sure you have several hides in there for the snake. If you buy a thermostat, yes, you can turn up the heat of the mat, but it will likely melt the plastic cage. Just get rid of those Faunariums- they are not good for snakes.

[Will0W783]

Something like this would be better: Reptile Vivarium Tough Plastic Easy Clean Vivarium 24" (http://www.netpetshop.co.uk/p-22057-reptile-vivarium-tough-plastic-easy-clean-vivarium-24.aspx), or one of these: Perfecto Glass Reptile Habitats (http://www.netpetshop.co.uk/p-28500-perfecto-glass-reptile-habitats.aspx). Please trust me when I say you will not be able to achieve a proper heat gradient in one of those tiny, plastic things you have now. I'm not trying to be tough on you, I'm just telling you what you need to keep your snakes healthy. Obviously what you are doing now is not working.

[ColbyKun]

ahh i see. i havent actually got the faunarium yet. i ordered it but hasnt arrived. im snakeless atm. umm im not sure if it was me cos theres something green inside it which has got bigger. i noticed that when i got her but i thought it was her lung. i havent buried her but i see it has grown. not sure if i bought a ill snake. i dont have the money for another tank butthats okay since i have no snakes but i like the 2nd one, the glass terrerium. and thank you for using that site because i dont have anywhere else to buy stuff from. I do actually have a nice big wooden vivarium that she was in so i did buy a proper snake enclosure. umm yeah, i have a room which i turn the heating up for them. the room is dedicated to snakes so everything is there etc. i dont think fish tank is better than a vivarium that is made for snakes though, right? Fish tanks at the nearest shop i can get to are crap, they will escape. :S I know your not being tough on me, trust me, i appreciate the help. Ill get a digital thermometer as well one as well. thank you for all the info, big help. =]

[CAL]

Colbykun,

Sorry to read about your snake - it must be very distressing.

I picked my digital thermometer up from Ebay. Its only cost about £10 and has two probes on it, one for the hot end and one for the cold.

I have used it with both a heat mat and bulb, and now just a heat mat and they work fine for both. I altered a few things in my viv earlier in the year and realised I didn't need the bulb once I had sorted my heatmat and put it on a thermostat.

I know thermostats can be very expensive. I bought a habistat and needed to send it back for repair (my fault - not the unit). The repair was done FOC and the unit was only missing for 36 hours. Not bad when I live 300miles away from their place and it was posted both ways.

CAL

Forgot to say:

I used to use both a mat and bulb to get 30deg but since I removed some of the substrate off the mat I can get 30deg easily with the mat alone. I did used to use abut 2" of substrate over the mat but dropped it to an inch and got the extra temp. If the mat is on the inside of the viv, i.e. with a wooden viv, then some people cover them with a tile to prevent snake to mat contact. If the mats on the under side of the faunarium then you don't have to worry about that and it shouldn't get hot enough to damage the faun.

The cold end of my viv tends to equalise out with room temp, so 20deg ish. For what its worth my corn spends about 90% of his time there, unless its the first three days after being fed in which he's in the hot end.

Sorry if it appears that I'm trying to teach you suck eggs but I had a few thoughts reading through the posts and I've put them all down...

[kellen]

Do i REALLY need a thermostat? - Reptile Forums UK (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/snakes/174166-do-i-really-need-thermostat.html)

[ColbyKun]

The shop just told us the LX24 is too big and it is likely it died of stress. They keep them in hatchling boxes.

[Will0W783]

That's total crap as far as I'm concerned. I sincerely doubt it died of stress. Of course the pet store isn't going to admit to anything that might be their fault, although you've had them for a while. I'd say it is more likely it was kept too cold. But I don't know for sure. Again, it's better to stick with adult corns until you've had more experience. Hatchlings are very delicate.

[ColbyKun]

2 weeks. Don't you turn the heat mat off so they can hibernate, leaving them with no heat?

[Will0W783]

It's better not to cycle temps with any captive snake unless you are intending to breed them that season. Cooling is risky for any snake, especially young ones. In the wild they hibernate, but the weak snakes generally don't survive, and the strong ones have large territories and multiple means of escape from a temperature that isn't ideal for them at that time. Captive snakes are stuck with however you keep them. And 2 weeks is not that long. Again, I don't think it was stress from a too big cage that killed your snake. I've researched a lot on many different kinds of snakes, and I have never read that a cage that is too big will kill them of stress, or even particularly stress them out. I'm assuming you offered it hides- did you give it multiple hides in both ends and the middle of the cage so it could feel secure while thermoregulating? Also, don't buy snakes from a pet store. They are rarely as healthy as a breeder's and the pet stores really don't know that much about them for the most part, plus you are wasting your money because stores charge a big markup as they have to buy from breeders or wholesalers and still turn a profit. Better to cut out the middlemen and talk directly to the breeder and get care tips, history, etc.

[citysnakes]

a faunarium is just a low quality, over ventilated and overpriced rubbermaid tub. you can keep a hatchling corn snake in there no problem as long as you cover up some ventilation and use a thermostat in combination with your heat mat. why would you purchase a faunarium though when you can find a rubbermaid or any plastic tub to better suit the animal's and your needs and at a lower cost?

it is generally accepted that excessively large enclosures may cause various types of stress to many species of snakes of various ages. with a hatchling corn snake i would assume this to be the case as well although i do not believe your cornsnake died from stress of excessive space alone. i mean you bought it from a pet store. it could of died for one or more of many factors determined by that type of environment and/or one or more factors determined by your husbandry and quality of care. for this reason it is impossible to determine a sole cause of death and the OP's description doesnt help much either.

anyways before you go out to purchase your next snake and listen to whatever the pet store guy tells you, first, stop taking advice from pet store employees but do go to that same pet store and only purchase a book that focuses solely on the care and husbandry of corn snakes. if you cant find one there then you can easily do an online search and order one off the net. read it. read it again and then decide what equipment youre going to need to keep this snake alive and healthy for its entire life. purchase that equipment, set it all up and then find a local breeder, ask questions and then purchase a guaranteed healthy animal from a good breeder.

hope this somehow helps...

[Will0W783]

I agree completely Julian! :yes:

Colby, you really do need to do more research on corn snakes before you purchase another one, and I believe if I remember correctly you had gotten two- so you still have one right? Do go and get a good book, such as
Amazon.com: Corn Snakes: The Comprehensive Owner's Guide (Herpetocultural Library, The) (0748869707066): Kathy Love, Bill Love: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Corn-Snakes-Comprehensive-Herpetocultural-Library/dp/1882770706/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259774386&sr=8-3)
or Amazon.com: Corn Snakes (Bartlett, Richard D., Reptile Basics.) (9780764111204): Richard Bartlett, Patricia Bartlett: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Snakes-Bartlett-Richard-Reptile-Basics/dp/0764111205/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259774386&sr=8-12).

[ColbyKun]

First one died, when I bought two, I actually lost one in a stupid gap that I never noticed, and the second of the pair died. I haven't taken any advice from pet store since it was online and none where I live. I only take advice here. One hide on each side, climbing branch looped around a fake rainforest plant for the snake and aspen bedding. Thats all. And a UTH underneath the wood 1/3 of tank. Fed really well. No problem. Had a huge crap though. Maybe constipated? The only person off;line I listened to is a breeder that has breeded them for 20 years. I ordered faunariums which are nearly here because I buy things online, its easier for me. I can't talk to the breeder cos they are sold through wholesale to the shop and they breed it and care for it. Just so you know, there are NO shops around here that sell any reptile stuff, Except mice. I've actually read over 10 times, snakes get stressed in big spaces. :S I was going to order a book this weekend with some hides that wont mould. I have a better idea now of the whole lot.

[Chu'Wuti]

theres something green inside it which has got bigger. i noticed that when i got her but i thought it was her lung. i havent buried her but i see it has grown.

I'm curious about this statement, Colby-Kun--something green inside the snake? How could you notice it when you got her? And it's grown? This sounds really strange . . . could you provide some details?

One thing that comes to my mind as another possible factor in her death is that with the low temps you had, digestion wasn't working as well as it should have, and her meal could have decomposed and become toxic before she could digest it. However, I'd really like to know more about the "green" thing.

[Will0W783]

theres something green inside it which has got bigger. i noticed that when i got her but i thought it was her lung. i havent buried her but i see it has grown.

Lol. I think that it was probably her liver you were noticing. I have a leucistic Texas ratsnake and if you hold her and look carefully, especially in a well-lit or backlit room, you can see all of her internal organs. The liver will look greenish through a white or cream-colored snake. And it would make sense that internal organs would grow along with the snake. That would be my guess as to what it was, but pictures would help us to determine if it was just an organ or if it was a pathological tumour or the like.

[Will0W783]

Chu, the low temps preventing proper digestion would be what would kill a cool snake. They get chronically malnourished from not being able to get the proper nutrients from their meals. Usually when a meal begins to turn toxic the snake regurges it, but meals that can't be digested properly over time could cause a buildup of toxins and a deficit in necessary vitamins and minerals. Also the cool temps cause some body enzymes to shut down and the animal cannot produce all the proteins it needs to develop new skin, digest food, grow, neurologically function, etc. I still think the low temps combined with possible mold infection are what killed Colby's snake.

[ColbyKun]

Even though it was never warm enough, I never saw he on the warm side, Just on a climbing plant or burrowed in the cold side.

[Chu'Wuti]

To a snake, being on a warm spot out in the open could be dangerous, whereas being covered up even though cold could feel safer. As far as the snake is concerned--esp. a new snake unfamiliar with you--you are a giant Godzilla who might be planning to eat it. So it hides. Even being on the climbing plant could feel like hiding in the open while watching for tasty furry critters to come along.

[ColbyKun]

But he could of burrowed there or in its hide? :S

[ColbyKun]

on the hot side

[Chu'Wuti]

with the low temps you had, digestion wasn't working as well as it should have, and her meal could have decomposed and become toxic before she could digest it.
Chu, the low temps preventing proper digestion would be what would kill a cool snake.
Sounds like we're in agreement on this. Colby-Kun, if you had a hide on the hot side and if the hot side was at 30 deg in the hide, then he would probably have gone there. The problem is that what feels "nice & warm" to us is not necessarily what feels "nice & warm" to the snake--it can be too cool for some snakes and it can be too hot for others. The temps--all of the temps--have to be set and maintained according to each species' needs. If your UTH doesn't have a thermostat regulating it, then it's highly likely it wasn't putting out the appropriate heat level.

Before getting another snake, follow the suggestions given here about studying up on the needs of the species you want to get & find the appropriate equipment for meeting those needs. Better luck in the future!

Sandy

[Will0W783]

what feels "nice & warm" to us is not necessarily what feels "nice & warm" to the snake-:yes:

This makes a lot of things difficult with snakes- judging cage temps, judging bath water temps, judging food temps.

[ColbyKun]

i had a hide on the warm side with aspen bedding.