Can one get dewormers and other common snake meds without going to the vet every time

[Will0W783]

Hi guys,

This question is aimed mostly at the bigger-scale guys and breeders. I was wondering if you need to take snakes to the vet every time you notice sniffles or need to deworm one, of if one can obtain some of these medicines without a prescription? I was just wondering, as I have a rather large collection and am curious if I can do some home remedies when (because I'm sure I will have them from time to time) there are problems?

[Chu'Wuti]

Kimberly, I'm sure Julian or Mykee or Mark will jump onto this soon, but I can tell you this much just from reading their posts over the past year--they almost never take their snakes to a vet.

As far as I know, you're unlikely to see worms in any of your CBB snakes--they rarely occur unless your snake is WC. If you have a WC snake and it isn't thriving, you can just take a stool sample in a plastic bag to the vet. Collect it fresh, keep it in the refrigerator, and get it to the vet within 24 hours of it being deposited by the snake.

Most people raise humidity & temps as soon as they "see sniffles" and rarely have to take the snake to a vet for any RI. RIs are almost always caused by low humidity + low temps; screen tops & drafty rooms can contribute. If a snake develops an RI and you have a screen top, cover it to help retain humidity and decrease drafts.

Mites can be a problem if you get a snake carrying them. Quarantine your new snakes for 6 months (some people get by with 3 but 6 is recommended) to prevent a new snake from giving all the others mites or anything else. Check out the thread: http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/82231-medical-mite-treatment-nix.html for great info on treating mites without going to a vet.

That's just my two cents; your further "education" (hah!) is up to the other guys now!

[Will0W783]

I do quarantine any new snakes I bring in. I learned that lesson after having a bad mite outbreak and breaking my back cleaning and treating all the cages and snakes. I was mainly curious because I have a carpet who is currently being vet treated for an RI and noticed clicking while breathing in one I just brought home last weekend and had to treat for mites (he's in a different room and I think it might have been a little cool for him). He now has a heat lamp on a timer and I got his mouth open and checked for mucus and he seems clean so I'm hoping the heat will fix anything that might be starting. I also have a WC Spilotes pullatus I just got yesterday. It has been in captivity for a few months and treated for external but not internal parasites. I don't want to stress it unduly by lugging it along to the vet, but my vet won't do fecal samples without my bringing the animal in for a full workup. He's a great vet and very good with reptiles, but EXPENSIVE. I care about my animals and if it comes to a vet visit I will take them, but I was curious how much home care I could manage. Thank you.

[Chu'Wuti]

I figured you probably quarantine; you have come across as pretty knowledgeable and smart about snake husbandry. However, enough people don't understand the importance of quarantining--or even know to quarantine--that it's worth a mention in a thread like this.

You may have done this already, too--raise the humidity for the carpet and the new snake that's clicking? For any snake with an RI or possible RI, increasing humidity to the upper limits of that species' range can be very helpful, as it helps make breathing easier.

I guess the extra training that a herp-certified vet gets leads to their being able to charge higher prices :( . I know what you mean, though--we'll pay the $$$ if it's needed to help the snake! Too bad your vet won't check a fecal sample you take in; mine is good about that, but every vet is different.

There is a lot you can do yourself, though--I've never had to take any of my snakes (a pretty good number over three+ decades, all WC until the past five years) to a vet because I've done my research--just as you're doing now--in order to keep them properly. A book that I've found to be pretty helpful with the WCs I've had over the past decade+ is What's Wrong with My Snake? by John Rossi, DVM, and Roxanne Rossi.

Here's hoping that Julian/Mykee/Mark/Aaron (or any of the other experienced breeders/keepers) get on with more suggestions!

[Will0W783]

I do quarantine, and I have the clicking snake in a separate room with a heat lamp keeping his temps in the mid-to-upper 80s ambient and about 93 basking. He is still undergoing the Nix treatment- his final treatment will be tonight. I have soaked him a few times a week in 90 degree water. The hot water soak was recommended by my vet the last time I had a snake with an RI. He seems to be doing better; I got him to open his mouth with a q-tip and didn't see any mucus, and I haven't heard the clicking in over 24 hours, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. It's so hard to keep the humidity up during Nix treatment, but he'll be done with that soon.

[gonesnakee]

Unfortunately I'm no expert on treating for internal parasites etc. as I only deal with CAPTIVE BRED stock & don't deal with those that deal in WC if I can help it at all.
I can;t recall offhand the name of a common dewormer used & cannot describe its dosage et. if I were to remember its name.
It is a common item usually found in livestock & feed stores but the name excapes me.
Flagyl is one I think but there is also another commonly used (a type of creme). Mark

[Will0W783]

ivermectin? panacure?

[gonesnakee]

Ah yes Pancure (sp?) Mark

[Will0W783]

Thanks Mark. I talked to my vet and he said he will let me bring in a stool sample without bringing the snake in for a full exam. That way I'll know if it is even necessary. I have a WC Spilotes pullatus and want to do all I can to ensure its survival, so if it has parasites I want them eradicated. It's quite a neat little snake, but territorial..lol.

[Chu'Wuti]

Glad to hear the snake is doing better, Kimberly, and also glad to see that others have been able to offer some solid info re deworming! Good luck getting the poor snake into completely healthy condition.

Pics?

[gonesnakee]

Be careful if deworming & get a safe dosage from someone that knows FOR SURE!
They can also be bad for dehydrating animals as well so lots of fresh water etc. is required during treatment, Mark

[Will0W783]

Thanks Mark. I just acquired an imported Spilotes pullatus subadult. He is about 3-4 feet long and seems to be doing well. The seller had treated him for mites but not internal parasites and had him for about 3 weeks; he had gotten the snake in a trade. He is fairly tame and quite handleable and supposedly eating f/t so the previous owner must have had him for a while too to be able to accomplish that. I have no idea if the importer treated him for internal parasites as the seller I got him from had no information on the importer. I have him in quarantine and have checked him for mites via soaking and substrate examination. I haven't found any on him, but until I have a fecal sample run and vet check I'll keep him in the quarantine room. I just wanted to know if I could deworm him on my own, but I have decided to take at least a fecal sample into my vet to find out if it is even necessary. I don't want to put him through medications if he doesn't need them.

[Joel La Rocque]

Hi Kimberly:
De-worming any reptile is a risky business. I personally have my daughter handle that end of the problem as she is in DVM school now and I am not that sure of myself. We use a combination of two drugs, the first is Ivermectin followed by Praziquatel. I keep all of my animals on a 100% white cotton bath towel, used as a substrate. I find it best because I can see anything odd such as a mite, tick, flea or blood spots. I also see any fecal matter immediately and replace the towel with a new one. Every dropping is checked under a microscope for protozoa or worms and we go from there. These drugs are very harsh to the GI system and they should be given with great care. Check the droppings with a magnifying glass or get a cheep microscope at toys are us, it will come in very handy when you suspect a problem.
I don't know what you put in the bottom of your tanks but in the past 15 years I have used nothing but cotton beach towels and I have caught several potential problems very early. It requires a lot of changing and a lot of separate washings but my animals are well worth the trouble. Later Joel

[Will0W783]

Thanks Joel. I am going to have a fecal sample run by my herp vet before I treat him, so I won't give him harsh meds unnecessarily.

[Joel La Rocque]

Hi New friends:
I regret that I find it necessary to leave this group and go back to life in the Lab with my friends. I am afraid I let my temper get away with my on the subject of Venomoids and for the sake of my blood pressure I will leave this stuff to you guys. I am sure that my email address is here somewhere so if I can ever be of service to any one just give me a yell. It was very nice talking (so to speak) with you all. Joel

[Chu'Wuti]

Joel, I hope you'll reconsider. I for one have been very glad that someone who is very experienced with hots has been so informative on both the hots and the venomoids--I've hoped that your great experience & credibility will help certain people understand what we've tried to tell them for months.

You certainly are not the only person to let my temper get away with my on the subject of Venomoids, so please don't feel concerned that you might have offended anyone--far from it for most of us!!

More than that, I've been glad that another person with good experience had joined to help newbies with their concerns, or to help more experienced people like Kimberly here with new concerns. Often it has been the same three-five people, and we all have other commitments in our lives and can't get to a new post expressing concerns as fast as we'd like. Having more experienced & knowledgeable people helps cut the response time and improve our overall ability to provide quality information when someone has a problem.

Re your blood pressure--do go watch your snakes awhile--should be like watching fish for blood pressure, I'd think! ;) I wish I could see your facility & animals sometime.

At least drop in every once in awhile, OK?

[siz]

Completely agree with Chu..I also let my temper go on the same thread but PASSION is a part of snake keeping and you are passionate about your venomous snakes, which I admire. It's always nice to see experienced keepers come on these forums, and especially nice to see someone specialized in venomous, as we have had a few questions gone unanswered due to lack of knowledge.
I'd like you to stay :)

[Will0W783]

I'd like you to stay as well Joel; I was very impressed by your knowledge of venomous, and the fact that you are a venom extractor is pretty cool as well. Don't worry about losing your temper, many people do on touchy topics such as venomoids.

[Joel La Rocque]

Hello Folks:
My wife made a very interesting comment to me yesterday. " You know Joel, the reason I married you was strictly maternal? I knew that as long as I had you, I would have a baby to care for". Kind of put me in my place don't ya think?
I went to a forum on Venomoids (That I knew I should never have gone to) and I saw a picture that nearly drove me insane. I simply can not tolerate anyone causing harm to an animal, and this photo was about the worst case scenario I had ever seen. I have no doubt that I would have beaten someone to death, had I walked in on something like that. It was my fault for going there and I won't be that stupid again.
Some well meaning fellow said that I was proud of my tags! If the English language has not changed I believe I said "to my "Discredit" I believe Webster defines that word as being ashamed of the record. But for the record I will say the I have received one (1) legitimate bite (accidental) and 56 illegitimate bites (Bites I could have avoided). I am defining the bigger words so we can get by this "What did he mean" session and get on with life. I am 59 years of age, I will be 60 on March 29th 2010 at 6:40 in the AM. I started playing with snakes at the age of nine (9) in upstate New York. In that part of the world, most people are part snake (the good part). I started studying them at the age of seventeen (17) and started working with venomous snakes at the age of nineteen (19). My first bite was the only legitimate bite I had ever received and that was in July of 1972. A cottonmouth tagged me on the right side of my Butt, one fang got my wallet the other got me. The other 56 bites could have been avoided had I changed my desire to study snakes and went into selling Ladies hand bags. Some husband would have shot me so I feel that working with snakes was the better and safer choice for me.
Each of the 56 were due to my becomming "complacent" a very bad work when dealing with animals of any kind.
I go through life on my terms not the terms dictated by others, I fail far more then most but I enjoy the try. Most people think I am an idiot. They come here to watch the fool play with animals they have nightmares about and to them I am not quite normal! I would not trade one minute of my time with these animals for all they have in the Bank. I have succeeded in doing something that few humans ever dreamt of doing. I can walk less then fifteen feet to my left and pick up a venomous snake, drape it around my neck and finish writing this letter with out incident. All of my animals have names, not numbers, they know me and respect me as a person who would do them no harm. Do you know what it feels like to have a seven foot plus Egyptian cobra sit in your lap while you watch TV and accept you as an equal? It took my well over thirty years to figure out what makes them tick and another three years at imitate them to the point of being accepted. I threw my snake sticks away and I only use my hands and since that time I have not received one bite.
Oh I just remembered the other idiots name, Bill Hasst, a real moron logging in with 157 bites, 100 more then me. "Bill if you read this, I am being my usual sarcastic self!" I would hardly call Bill Hasst an amateur, next to God, he is in command when it comes to venomous snakes.

Anyway, I am sorry for loosing my temper and acting like a $%#*&. Please excuse my childish behavior and I will try an do better in the future. Now that I have apologised, there might be a chance of getting something to eat around here. Be safe friends
Joel

[jparker1167]

you really believe the snakes think of you as an equal? free handling makes all keepers look bad. i would not consider bill hasst an idiot his bites are from handling and milking 100s of venomous snakes. i dont believe i have ever heard him say he would put a cobra around his neck or have one sit in his lap cause they belived he was an equal.

joel when i posted and said it looked like you where proud of the bites you had not said to your discredit you said i have 57 bites under my belt in 40 years. if you would have said to my discredit i would not have replied with what i said.


"But for the record I will say the I have received one (1) legitimate bite (accidental) and 56 illegitimate bites (Bites I could have avoided)"

any bite you take is a legitimate bite, if you make a mistake that could be avoided that is still a bite. if you get bit while hiking i would not count that. but if your bit when you handling your hots it still counts. my friend was bit through an air hole in a deli cup at a reptile show. he counts that as a bite he shouldnt have had. even though it is not a high chance of the snake getting a fang through the little air holes.