View Full Version : Frilled dragon weird behavior
Will0W783
05-17-09, 08:22 PM
I have a female frilled dragon lizard of unknown age. I got her from a guy who got her from a guy he knew who got her from a pet store he worked at. So, no idea how old she is. But she is shedding well and seems to be in good health. She had a full vet check right after I got her. My question is- can reptiles get anything like a form of narcolepsy? I know it sounds bizarre, but she falls asleep ALL THE TIME. She will crawl up a branch and fall asleep in mid-step. She also falls asleep with mice hoppers in her mouth. She will zealously chase it, kill it, crunch, crunch..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
She'll just pass out with the thing hanging out of her mouth! If I wake her up, she will look around like, "huh? Wha..oh yeah, I was eating" and start munching again, then she's out like a light again after a few chomps. What the heck?? I'm at a loss here.. She has plenty of heat, the temps are in the 80s during the day with a basking spot near 90. She has a UVB bulb. She always has water and branches to climb on and she is in a 55-gallon tank so she has plenty of room. Anyone have any idea what could be going on?
that is kinda funny in a sort of way. I have no experience with lizards at all so i really can't help you, but that would be kinda funny to see it fall asleep mid-chew.
Will0W783
05-18-09, 08:23 AM
It is funny- when I rap on the tank and she wakes up and starts chewing again I have to laugh. But it is also disturbing. I think from now on I won't feed her hoppers- I'll only give her stuff she can eat in one bite to avoid the passing out while chewing. I just hope there isn't anything seriously wrong with her. It's so bizarre.
Maybe she is just tired. does she sleep at night?
Will0W783
05-18-09, 08:29 AM
She sleeps all the time. She is narcolepsy lizard. She just flops down everywhere all the time. I've honestly never seen such a lazy lizard.
Haha well that is kinda funny. maybe she is pregnant or just that time of the month. It's a girl and i've never been able to figure out the crazy stuff you all do. so im not even going to try and understand a female of another species. and if she hasn't been exposed to a male then mabye it is lizard Jesus coming to save the whole herp population.
Will0W783
05-18-09, 09:05 AM
She's never been bred. She is also rather skinny but she won't put on weight. She eats ok, and I have had her dewormed and checked out thoroughly by the vet. She just....likes to sleep.
well then there is no explanation to it just like other females. lol
Will0W783
05-18-09, 05:38 PM
Haha.... lol actually, I think men are not understandable. Anyway, I am rather concerned about her, so if anyone has any advice on what could be going on with her, I'd really appreciate it.
I would very much doubt it would be because she was gravid...
What do you supplement with and what is your schedule?
Will0W783
05-18-09, 07:33 PM
I was dusting crickets with Repti-Vite once a week for her, but she has decided that she doesn't want them anymore. For the last few weeks she has just been getting fuzzies and cockroaches that aren't dusted.
You should dust with calcium containing D3 several times a week. (RepCal is a great brand). You should only dust with Reptivite a couple times a month. Your UV light is pretty much useless if you don't use calcium as well - UV lights help with calcium absorbsion.
Mouse pinkys and fuzzies should be a once a month treat due to the high protien (and fat I think) content. A variety of gutloaded insects including crickets, hornworms, superworms, silkworms, roaches etc and dark leafy greens such as collards, mustard greens, dandilion greens etc are part of a healthy diet. I will pull a great link for you of healthy and toxic veggies.
I would suspect this is why she is falling asleep, lack of calcium and possible protein 'overload'. It could also be early signs of MBD but at this stage it would be easily reversible.
Will0W783
05-19-09, 09:56 AM
What is "MBD"? I will get a calcium supplement for her and start dusting the cockroaches for her. She won't eat the crickets anymore- she lets them all die in her cage, so I'll try her with some dusted mealworms. I also couldn't get her to eat veggies- I tried her with romaine and mixed greens salad, and carrots, and squash, and she didn't want any part of it. Is there a trick to getting them to eat greens?
MBD is Metabolic Bone Disease.
MBD is complex disease. In it's simplest terms, MBD results from an improper calcium to phophorus ratio in the body. Normally this ratio should be around 2:1 calcium/phosphorus (in the range of 1:1 to 2:1). When the calcium level is relatively low the body tries to compensate by taking calcium from wherever it can, for example the bones. This leads to a softening of the bones, making them susceptible to fractures and also leading to a deposition of fibrous tissue as the body tries to strengthen the bone in an absence of available calcium. Calcium also impacts a number of other physiological systems including muscle contraction (including the heart) and blood clotting. The 2:1 ratio of calcium to phosphorus that is ideal in the diet, but calcium metabolism is not that simple. Vitamin D (especially D3) is also vital to calcium metabolism, and because some reptiles do not absorb vitamin D that well (much like humans) they need ultraviolet light exposure to manufacture their own vitamin D.
Signs and symptoms:
bowed, or swollen legs, or bumps on the long bones of the legs
arched spine or bumps along bones of spine
softening and swelling of the jaw (bilateral) - sometimes called "rubber jaw"
receded lower jaw
in turtles, softening of the carapace or plastron (the shell)
tremors
jerky movements-twitching in the muscles of the legs and toes
lameness
anorexia
constipation
fractures of the bones due to bone weakness
lethargy
weakness and even partial paralysis (sometimes unable to lift body off ground)
both from Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) in Reptiles (http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/reptilesgeneral/a/metabolicbd.htm)
All these things don't happen at once and some symptoms are subtle and progress before you even really notice. Keep in mind I am not saying this is what it is, just seems likely to me with your supplementation schedule. Mealworms and superworms are good but should not be feed too often because of their harder outer shell, it can cause impaction if fed too much. I find my dragons and the frilled I have cared for in the past enjoyed eating veggies..sometimes it is just a case of finding what they like. If she is younger, (I forget if you mentioned her age), younger dragons tend to be more interested in insects and less so in greens. I have tried putting worms in the veggies and mashing the insects into the veggies. In my experience, once they try it they realize they love them lol.
Here is the veggie list:
Exclusive Dragons - Bearded Dragon Nutritional Content Information & Chart (http://www.exclusivedragons.com/Nutritional_Content.html)
She won't eat the crickets anymore- she lets them all die in her cage, so I'll try her with some dusted mealworms. I also couldn't get her to eat veggies- I tried her with romaine and mixed greens salad, and carrots, and squash, and she didn't want any part of it. Is there a trick to getting them to eat greens?
Also I find they sometimes tire of crickets so maybe just try giving her a break from them for a while. Lettuces are poor quality greens, they contain little except water and usually makes for runny poops. In my experience, favourites are bell peppers (any colour but red seems best), green beans, collards, endive, dandilions and butternut squash
Will0W783
05-19-09, 06:26 PM
Thank you so much. I will get a good calcium supplement tomorrow and get some veggies for her as well. I hope this will work for her! I will let you know if I see any changes in her when I change her diet.
Will0W783
05-20-09, 06:09 AM
When I got her she was very lethargic too. The kid I got her from had been keeping her in a homemade wood and screen cage with virtually no humidity at all, and he had her in his basement which routinely fell below 70 degrees. He said she was "hibernating" and hardly ate, but I was shocked at how inadequate her keeping was, so I bought her. I don't think he ever supplemented her with anything and he fed her only crickets and mealworms, no veggies or mice. I hope there isn't irreparable damage from poor keeping. :(
MBd can be stopped and sometimes partially reversed so GOOD LUCK :D
edit: Oh by the way, now you owe me pictures :p
citysnakes
05-20-09, 08:05 AM
Frills dont really need veggies or mice. i dont think many eat veggies at all and ive never really felt that mice are too healthy for them although im sure others will disagree. personally i would feed it a variety of insects dusted with vitamins a few times a week and, depending on the age of the dragon, calcium powder once a week. mist daily to keep humidity up and sometimes you may even be able to bottle train him(thats fun). double check your temperatures and place the UV bulb within a range where it will actually serve its purpose. i dont know what else to say, maybe hes just lazy... if you havent done so already, give him lots of secure climbing areas. this may promote more activity in him.
Will0W783
05-20-09, 09:22 AM
She has several large branches to climb on, and she does, but she will fall asleep and slip off the branch and just lay on her back where she falls. Eventually she will move and roll over, but it takes her some time. She seemed a bit perkier this morning, but she fell off the branch and laid on her back until I picked her up and put her back on the branch. If I can't get her to take any dusted insects tonight I will mash some up (dusted with Calcium) and add water, fill up a syringe with it and squirt it into her mouth so she gets some good nutrients.
Hope it goes well for you today!!
She has several large branches to climb on, and she does, but she will fall asleep and slip off the branch and just lay on her back where she falls. Eventually she will move and roll over, but it takes her some time. She seemed a bit perkier this morning, but she fell off the branch and laid on her back until I picked her up and put her back on the branch. If I can't get her to take any dusted insects tonight I will mash some up (dusted with Calcium) and add water, fill up a syringe with it and squirt it into her mouth so she gets some good nutrients.
To be honest this is worrying...I didn't realize she was falling right off branches. When you handle her, is her grip loose too? Definatley try to get that calcium and D3 into her ASAP!! As Julian mentioned, make sure she is close enough to her UV source and that she is nice and warm and hydrated. I know you can also get pure liquid calcium which they injest orally through a syringe but I have never used this before it is just a suggestion.
regarding veggies: greens are less essential to a frilled dragons diet than a bearded dragons diet but still are a part of a complete diet as they are omnivorous.
Here is a link to the nutritional value of some insect feeders, you may find it helpful ChamownersWeb Insect Nutritional Values (http://chamownersweb.net/insects/nutritional_values.htm)
again, GOOD LUCK with her!
Will0W783
05-25-09, 11:59 AM
My poor Sephera passed away. My fiance and I got the Rep-cal and mixed it with mashed insects and syringe fed her. But I guess it wasn't enough.
I'm so sorry to hear that :( :(
Will0W783
05-25-09, 05:12 PM
I have no idea how old she was, but she wasn't young, considering all the scars she had. And I don't know how she was cared for, other than the last kid wasn't giving her UV or supplements or anything. I did what I could for her, I will miss her. Thank you all for your concern and consolations.
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