Why should you house 2 dragons seperatly

[GoodSmeagol]

Especially males....


Bearded Dragons with Complete Setup

Price: $500.00


Ad ID: 122904722
Visits: 74 Address: Bute and Davie, Vancouver, BC, V6E View map (http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-ViewMap?AdId=122904722)
Date Listed: 02-May-09

I have two male bearded dragons for sale. They have been together since birth and live well together. Just under a year old. The reason for selling is that I need money for school. They are healthy and very friendly. They will come with everything you need. 60 gallon tank, UVB heat lamp, food and water dishes, basking logs, kricket keeper, cricket food, calcium dust, care guide. Email with any questions and for pictures





I asked how much they weighed.

The response
hi.
i have no idea how much they way. def under a pound a hey are still quite young.

thanks

From what I know, a year old dragon should be some 80-90% done growing.... In the picture posted with this ad, the look like they are 100-200 grams by estimation, and knowing how mine have looked(facial structure) at that weight.

[milldabeast]

80-90% dont at one year does not sound right. i could be wrong im not to sure. i have chinese water dragons and at 1 year they arent 30% dont growing. they are still growing at age 5 hes 7 and still getting bigger.

[auburn_09]

I don't get what this persons poor keeping habits has to do with housing 2 beardies separately. I'm somewhat confused. No 2 males, no 2 females. No 2 anything in my opinion. Beardies are solitary.

[Chu'Wuti]

GoodSmeagol agrees with you. He's expressing his distress that the two beardies have been kept together, with the proof of how bad it is being revealed in what appears to be a significant lack of growth.

Auburn, I can tell we're going to get along with you--you clearly know about proper husbandry than some people who come here. You can help us educate them . . . thank you!

[citysnakes]

actually beardies are social animals...

[GoodSmeagol]

Bearded dragons are as social as ball pythons.
2 males, one will most deffinetly take a dominance role.
The underling will not thrive.
There are many cases where 2 females or a male female pair will live happily ever after.
However there are many MORE cases of bearded dragons suffering missing limbs, tails, and death.
So make up your own mind.

As a new owner a few years ago. I housed 2 unrelated females together, one ended up missing a third its tail within a week.
Fed seperatly blah blah fed well...

They are not social animals.

[GoodSmeagol]

and..
By 2 years a dragon is considered fully grown.
at 1 year, most of the length is there, and over the next year, will start to fill out.
The girl I have now.
at 12months old was 450grams
at 16months(now) at 500grams
Within the first 6 months, the dragon should/could be 14++inches easily.
At a year 17++...
18months-full grown(18-24"), a bit of weight still to be gained.
Bearded Dragon Growth Charts (http://www.dachiu.com/beardeddragoncare/growthcharts.html)
Dachiu says 16" avg at 6months


I consider a dragon an adult at a year.
4-11months Juvie
less, baby.

[citysnakes]

a dominance heirarchy is natural in most social animals and should be considered when keeping beardies together. this doesnt mean that they cannot be housed together. obviously a big enough enclosure and dragons of similar size are important considerations.

comparing the sociality of beardies to balls is like apples to oranges so lets just say i agree to disagree with you.

[Will0W783]

By 2 years a dragon is considered fully grown.

Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that growth is ended. My ex had a bearded dragon that he fed a dozen crickets to every other week. He had her from a baby until she was 4 years old. I kept telling him it wasn't enough food, but he wouldn't listen. When we broke up, I got the dragon and started feeding her daily. Within 6 months, she had doubled in size. She wasn't fat, just grew much longer and filled out. So no matter how old the dragons are, proper feeding could enable more growth.

[siz]

a dominance heirarchy is natural in most social animals and should be considered when keeping beardies together. this doesnt mean that they cannot be housed together. obviously a big enough enclosure and dragons of similar size are important considerations.

That's an excellent way to put it Julian. The two german giant siblings I got a few months back get along - they don't fight (physically, over food, basking spots or anything) and they are both growing well. They will still be seperated eventually.
However, the second and third beardies that I ever got (got them together but unrelated) did not get along well. There was no physical fighting, but my female always got pushed away from the basking spot, the male wouldn't let her eat etc. Some dragons will actually fight but some of the other signs are much more subtle. It helps to know your animal's 'personality'.

[GoodSmeagol]

Like I said, there are MANY pairs that live happily ever after.
there are MORE pairs that will fight and nip each other.
Maybe not right away, but the risk is ALWAYS there.

Apples to Oranges?
Then that apple has an orange skin.
Cause lets think for a second

2 balls, can be housed together, and live happy lives given a big enough cage, proper feeding etc.
2 dragons can be housed together, live happy lives given a big enough cage, and proper feeding etc..
2 balls can have dominence issues, leaving one much less healthy then the other
2 dragons can have dominence issues, leaving one much less healthy then the other

Experts will agree, 2 balls together should not be done
Experts will agree 2 dragons, if kept together, you must be ready to seperate them at any time.

Just because you do not see dominance, one dragon may be more stressed then the other therefore eating less
Just because you do not see dominance, one snake may be more stressed then the other therefore stop eating

So I think the comparison is rather fair.

[milldabeast]

and..
By 2 years a dragon is considered fully grown.
at 1 year, most of the length is there, and over the next year, will start to fill out.
The girl I have now.
at 12months old was 450grams
at 16months(now) at 500grams
Within the first 6 months, the dragon should/could be 14++inches easily.
At a year 17++...
18months-full grown(18-24"), a bit of weight still to be gained.
Bearded Dragon Growth Charts (http://www.dachiu.com/beardeddragoncare/growthcharts.html)
Dachiu says 16" avg at 6months


I consider a dragon an adult at a year.
4-11months Juvie
less, baby.
i disagree i think thats way to young.an adults is not 12months old. an adult to me is a fullgrown dragon.

[milldabeast]

Like I said, there are MANY pairs that live happily ever after.
there are MORE pairs that will fight and nip each other.
Maybe not right away, but the risk is ALWAYS there.

Apples to Oranges?
Then that apple has an orange skin.
Cause lets think for a second

2 balls, can be housed together, and live happy lives given a big enough cage, proper feeding etc.
2 dragons can be housed together, live happy lives given a big enough cage, and proper feeding etc..
2 balls can have dominence issues, leaving one much less healthy then the other
2 dragons can have dominence issues, leaving one much less healthy then the other

Experts will agree, 2 balls together should not be done
Experts will agree 2 dragons, if kept together, you must be ready to seperate them at any time.

Just because you do not see dominance, one dragon may be more stressed then the other therefore eating less
Just because you do not see dominance, one snake may be more stressed then the other therefore stop eating

So I think the comparison is rather fair.
lol wow u found 2 things they have in common. i guess there the same as everyother reptilian species? balls and beardies are not alike and do not have a lot in common. the temperment is way different

[GoodSmeagol]

Obviously you did not get my point.
Keeping pairs of BOTH Ball Pythons and Bearded Dragons...
In which case they are close to being alike.
The point is, keeping 2 dragons, is like keeping 2 balls.
It can be done...
But is not recomended.

As far as adult dragons.
Again, I will compare.
An adult human, 20 years old.
Are they done gaining weight, filling out....
NOPE
yet they are adults.
A dragon at 12 months is WELL on their way to being full grown.
And at 12 months, I start converting to a more green diet.

[siz]

I disagree and think your comparison is a little skewed. Beardies CAN tolerate living with another of it's species. IMO this should NEVER be done with ball pyhtons (except to breed obviously). I don't think you can compare snakes to dragons when it comes to housing.

[milldabeast]

Obviously you did not get my point.
Keeping pairs of BOTH Ball Pythons and Bearded Dragons...
In which case they are close to being alike.
The point is, keeping 2 dragons, is like keeping 2 balls.
It can be done...
But is not recomended.

As far as adult dragons.
Again, I will compare.
An adult human, 20 years old.
Are they done gaining weight, filling out....
NOPE
yet they are adults.
A dragon at 12 months is WELL on their way to being full grown.
And at 12 months, I start converting to a more green diet.
yea your comparisons are wack. did u send me that chart? where u get that? is it from a published book? cus if not then any shmoe coulda posted that.