Need help python may be sick!

[butters5620]

Hi I really need some help and if nobody can help me i'll see if there is someone a little more knowledgeable about ball pythons. I've read the forums and haven't really found any helpful information. Ok so here's the problem. These pockets of blood (not dark but pinkish, sometimes darker than others) and clear liquid have appeared on my ball python. They're in the middle of him and are about 8 cm long on either side. They have been there for a few weeks and I'm afraid that they haven't gotten much smaller. He cringes when I touch them (he's actually always been a little sensitive to touching lol) so I'm not sure if that's pain or fear. He's a little shorter than 2 feet now and probably isn't even a year old (still a little baby haha). He still poops and eats but i'm worried about the little guy and I really hope somebody has some information on what I should do about these bubbles under his skin. thank you

P.S. These bubbles kind of make him look fat I will try and see if I can post a picture if people need some more info like that to help me

[Kmef07]

ya post some pics because i have no idea what you are talking about. i'm kinda new to snakes to i have no idea on that one. but hopefully someone will know. everyone will want you to post pics before they try and give advice though cuz no one will want to misdiagnose it.

[Smilts]

It may be what they call scale rot but pictures as mentioned would help alot.

[butters5620]

well i've done some research and found that it is most likely Blister Disease. They say to take him to a knowledgeable vet (none in my area unfortunately) or place in betadine solution in early stages. I just tried to feed him and he snatched the mouse up right away as if he hadn't eaten in forever! i guess thats a good sign. I might try the Betadine tomorrow but he's still active and hopefully he will fully digest the mouse. As long as his behaviour doesn't change I think he's on the road to recovery. Also I completely cleaned his cage with nature based cleaning product and hot water so it's cleaner than it will ever be! if anybody can lend some helpful tips that would be great. I really dont wanna do the whole vet thing because that would probably stress him out to death! well i guess i'll just keep you all posted then. let ya know if things get better or worse

[Chu'Wuti]

Also
1) tell us about how you have his enclosure set up, e.g., type & location of heat & light devices, humidity, temps, substrate.
2) tell us about his behavior--what does he spend most of his time doing? Does he soak in his bowl a lot? Does he spend a lot of time in certain areas of the enclosure? If so, what are they (the hot zone, basking spot, etc.)
3) How often do you clean the enclosure?
4) Can you see any mites on him (look like specks of black pepper or tiny black seeds) or of small dark spots between his scales (esp. look at the scales on his lighter areas)?
5) When was the last time he shed? Was it a complete shed, or did it come off in pieces?

[butters5620]

I have a glass reptile cage with a bowl of water in one corner and a rough stick in the middle and a little rock hut in the other corner with a heating pad under that part of the cage. the cage is lined with about an inch thick of aspen. I keep my room at around 75 degrees and i'm not sure about humidity. When I bought him the animal store told my to just buy a spray bottle and wet down the cage with it if he starts to shed. As for his behaviour, he spends most of his time sitting in his rock hut over his heating pad (which i recently just laid a thin cloth upon in case it was a little too warm). when he wants to be off the pad, he either sits behind the rock, on his rock, or on his stick. he 'does his business near the water bowl most of the time but i did find a poop hidden inside his rock house a couple days ago when i cleaned his cage (bad news). I try to clean the closure about once a month and pick up any excrement or skin I find lying around. He doesn't soak in his bowl too much that I've seen except for when he sheds. There aren't any mites on him (thank god) and that was the first thing I looked for. he last shed about 3 weeks ago and it seems nearly every time, he sheds in peices. My spray bottle broke last time he shed so I had to help him peel (I think it might've been too dry?). I'll probably need your help on the shedding because the pet store obviously doesnt know what they're doing. If there is anything wrong with the enclosure for my ball python, please let me know so I can get it fixed as soon as possible. Also any other helpful tips will do. And thats the low down on my bp. thanks for posting Chu'Wuti and plz reply soon

PS. I fed him last night and he is fully digesting properly. He doesnt seem to be malnourished or dehydrated so thats a good sign!

[butters5620]

But ya i'm pretty sure it's blister disease but he seems fine right now so I dont want to take him to the vet or pop the blisters (bad idea) or anything and stress him out to death. It seems like stress is what kills a lot of reptiles when they get sick so hopefully you guys will have some simple ways for me to help get my little ball python through this okay. thanks and keep posting any help you may have for me.
Also, i'm going to try and post some pictures today if I can find the camera so keep checking back!

[Chu'Wuti]

I'm glad to hear he's still eating--that's great! Let's see what we can do to resolve the other problem so you can stop worrying about him and relax & enjoy him.

Go get a hygrometer to measure the humidity in your enclosure. You need to maintain about 60-65% humidity when your BP is NOT in shed, and up it to 85%-100% when he is in shed (one of the breeders on here always increases his BPs' humidity to 100%). That will help with the shedding problems. Spraying is a difficult and problematic method of maintaining adequate humidity; it is likely your humidity is fluctuating too much. Incomplete sheds (shedding in pieces) is a sign of inadequate humidity 99%+ of the time.

When you say his hide (rock hut) is over the heating pad, what kind of heating pad do you mean? Is it a UTH? (under the tank heater) and is the only thing between him and the heating pad that cloth you put down?

Put a thermometer right on the floor of his hide on the heating pad and find out the temps--measure several times over the day & record all the temps, as they may be fluctuating (some heating pads do not maintain even temps, others do--it depends upon the brand/quality you have). It's entirely possible that he got burned, and that would explain the oozing blood. It could take awhile to heal.

BPs need three temperature zone and more than one hide. You should have a cool/warm/hot range, with the hot between 90-95 deg F and the warm about 85 deg F; don't let the cool drop below 80. Put one hide in the warm zone & one in the hot zone at least so your BP can regulate his temperature by moving when he needs to do so.

If you can, it's best to get digital hygrometers & thermometers; you especially need thermometers measuring temps in the three zones at the level your BP lives. Those strip thermometers that stick on the glass are not at all helpful, as they only tell you what the glass temp is where the thermo-strip is stuck--not what the temp is where your BP is.

If the heating pad is getting too hot, the first thing you'll need to do is either turn it down--if that's possible--or 1) buy a better heat source that can be set at 90 deg and no more, or 2) buy a rheostat so you can regulate the heat better.

Second, there are differing opinions about treating wounds on snakes. I'm going to tell you what the authors (Rossi & Rossi) of "What's Wrong with My Snake?" suggest, but others on here may disagree, so you will have to think about our suggestions and decide what's best for you to try.

Rossi & Rossi suggest getting topical ointments, either Polysporin, Silvadene Cream (1%), or povidone iodine ointment such as Betadine, to treat the wounds. I personally would avoid the iodine, as some reptiles react badly to iodine. Rossi & Rossi suggest applying the ointment each day for several weeks to a month. They also suggest a povidine iodine solution for 30 minutes per day prior to applying the ointment, but again, I question that tactic due to the possibility of problems with iodine. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be any more recent texts offering "doctoring" advice for snake owners. :(

Rossi & Rossi also note that burns heal slowly, and that it may take several sheds before the signs of the wounds disappear entirely. However, you should see the raw/oozing areas healing more and more with each shed.

Good luck--and fill us in on what you learn about your temps & humidity, especially in regards to that heating pad, so we can be sure we're addressing the real problem and not off on a wild goose chase!

Hang in there!

[butters5620]

hey thanks so much for your help. tonight I will probably go get a hygrometer and such and tomorrow I will measure the temps. I have 2 ZooMed UTH's. I keep the big one under his hide and haven't found a use for the small one yet. I put the UTH under the tank with the glass bottom above the heater, then a peice of folded paper towel above that in the cage, and top it all off with about 1/2 inch to an inch of aspen bedding. the paper towel idea is new (it just used to be insulated with aspen) and he is already starting to spend more time inside the hide. Most of the time he lays next to his hut because it might've been too hot inside. That extra layer of paper towel seems to help a bunch. I looked on his underside today and noticed pinkish lines that looked like dried blood where it oozed out. And do you know where I can buy this Polysporin or Silvadene Creme? I have no idea what those are haha. What brands should I look for? I think my heating pads run a constant temperature I can't change the heat either. and will the hygrometer automatically change the humidity to what i set it at? or does it just measure the humidity? Just keep me posted on these questions and once I buy all the stuff and make him comfortable I'll let you know how he's doing. thanks again!

[Kmef07]

they hygrometer just measures the humidity. if you have a screen top on your aquarium you will probably need to cover it with a damp towel or cling wrap so you can keep your humidity high enough. for example my house is only at abour 25% humidity in fluctuates in the summer because where i live the weather is crazy and always changing but you will need to increase you humidity. it probably just isn't humid enough and is too dry.

[butters5620]

Ya I have a screen top. how do I increase or decrease the humidity in the tank? is there something you could buy to do that automatically or do you just spray water?

[Chu'Wuti]

As Kyle suggested, you can cover part of the screen with plastic wrap or a damp towel (get a bath towel, soak it in water, then wring out & put it across the screen) to help maintain a higher humidity. Don't cover the whole top, because there won't be enough air circulation, and that could make things worse. Try about half. Put another bowl of water in if you can, under a light. Also, when you go to buy a hygrometer, buy some sphagnum moss. When you get home, soak a couple of handfuls of the moss in warm water, then squeeze out most of the water (the moss should only be damp, not dripping, so squeeze a lot of water out). Then put the moss on top of the aspen bedding or whatever is in the hide to increase the moisture in the hide.

As you're in Idaho, your house humidity is probably running pretty low. As Kyle points out, household humidity runs especially low in the winter because your furnace dries everything out.

Some people use misters (automatic misting systems) in their herp enclosures. What kind of enclosure are you using? If you're using an aquarium-type tank, it's harder to maintain humidity unless you do the covered top, bowls, etc. For example, I'm using an aquarium type tank myself, but I don't have to do the covered top & spraying because I have a naturalistic enclosure--I have soil & plants to help maintain humidity. You can definitely increase the humidity with more water, the damp moss, and spraying more often; it's just a lot of work. You might want to look into other options. A lot of people use Rubbermaid tubs because it's easier to maintain humidity. Another option is a specially built reptile enclosure.

I was hoping Aaron or Mykee or Julian would jump in on this discussion by now; I may go ask them to check on this & make their suggestions because they have a lot more BP experience than I do and know how to keep their snakes healthy enough to avoid vet visits, which are really stressful for the snake & risky if the vet isn't herp-certified.

As for the polysporin, it's an antibiotic salve you can buy at Target or Wal-Mart or a local drugstore. Any pharmacist can tell you what to find. But before you go off and buy that, post some photos--you can upload to photobucket.com and post from there by copying & pasting the forum link they provide--so we can see what's going on and make a better judgment, OK? I'll get Aaron & the others to check on this thread.

[Chu'Wuti]

BTW, I've been operating on the assumption that the problem is caused by burns (based on the hide over heater & shedding problem indicating low humidity). However, if the problem is blister disease, then you have very damp conditions--the aspen bedding would be wet all the time, and the snake should not have had difficulty shedding. IMHO, the shed problem and the causes of blister disease are incompatible. That's why I want some other people to come check this out before we go any further with treatment for the wounds.

Hang in there--I PM'd three other guys who are really knowledgeable, so we should have some more suggestions & info soon.

But please DO go ahead and post photos ASAP, OK?

[citysnakes]

can you post pictures please?

[butters5620]

Hey it's about midnight right now in Idaho. I'm sorry I wasn't able to take any photos today. My dad had the camera at his shop. I will try and go pick it up in the morning and get pictures posted ASAP. I'm extremely glad to hear it can't be blister disease (even though I wish it wasn't burns either haha just wish nothing was wrong). But as soon as I get those pictures posted and more help starts coming in I'm going to make a list of things I will need to purchase to help my snake get through this and prevent this in the future. You are all tons of help and hopefully my dad and I won't need to spend too much money! I'm also going to post pictures of my enclosure along with pictures of the snake so you can help me turn the cage into a home. It isnt the biggest cage as you will probably see and there isnt a ton of room to work with. So keep a watchful eye on this thread for those pictures and once again, thanks for all your really useful help!:)

[Chu'Wuti]

It's OK that it isn't a big enclosure; in fact, it's probably good, as it will be easier to manage the humidity. Most of the guys assert that smaller enclosures are less stressful for the snake as well, though not everyone agrees, and IMHO, a larger enclosure can work with the proper set-up. At any rate, that's not an issue of concern here.

I'm not saying your snake cannot have blister disease, only that I feel, given the information you've provided, that burns are more likely. I've never had to deal with blister disease myself, so I could be mistaken; that's why I went & begged for help for you.

Julian, thanks so much for dropping in & checking on this.

Butters, get your dad to bring the camera home today if at all possible--those photos are going to be essential for us to make a proper identification of the problem. TTYL!

[mykee]

After reading this entire thread, this is the most important question so far and will DEFINITELY help determine what is wrong with your ball python. What do you have to regulate heat on your UTH's? A thermostat? A dimmer? So what I'm really asking is what are the temperatures ON the glass over the hot spot.
If it's over 95 and you haven't done anything about it, you ar actually cooking your ball pythons insides very slowly and he WILL die unless you fix the issue. Blisters are caused from burns. Burns are caused by heat. Yours is far too high, obviously. Fix it fast or start shopping for a new ball python.

[butters5620]

mykee I have layered more aspen and cloth over the heater so if it was too hot that problem has been solved. My bp seems to enjoy his hide a lot more now that i've cooled it down. I dont have any regulators or dials on my UTH. it just stays a constant temperature and thats why I have to layer it. It should be around 90 degrees constant temperature without layering. It has a 2 year warranty also so if the temperature is over the limit, I can get a new one or just use a smaller UTH that I own. would you guys recommend putting my smaller UTH under his hide? not sure if the temp differs from the bigger UTH but it could help. but like I said i'm trying to get those pictures posted I need the code to get into my dads shop and get the camera but the itiot doesn't answer his phone. I put a damp towel over 3/4 of the top of the cage to hopefully increase the humidity. thanks i'll have those pics posted soon!

[butters5620]

Hey I just got the camera back from my dad's work. Unfortunately the battery was completely dead so I'm going to have to wait about an hour for it to charge. So hang in there! Haha my name is Jordan by the way. I'm 16 and I'm jobless so thats why my dad should be helping me out as much as he can. And that's a little bit about myself! I will get those pics posted within the next hour and a half though hopefully so keep a close watch on this thread. Thank all you guys for your time and your help!

[butters5620]

Okay I've finally got an album made on photobucket. Just paste this URL into your web browser and it should take you straight to the album!

Pictures by butters5620 - Photobucket (http://s641.photobucket.com/albums/uu133/butters5620/)

Inside the album is various pictures of the snake and his enclosure. They have discriptions so be sure to read those for full understanding. Please take a look at these photos and tell me what you think! Thanks!

[Aaron_S]

Ok, so first things first, good news he's still eating so he won't die from that. It also doesn't look like burns from the underbelly shot.

Here are my suggestions. First, get a dimmer or thermostat for the heat pad (any heatpad should have one attached). This way you can rule out over heating. Make sure the humidity is brought up to proper conditions because the first thing to get rid of is the left over shed(s) the snake has on it. To help with that, my suggestion is to dampen a pillowcase entirely, place the snake in it and tie a knot in the top. Leave it for 30 - 60 minutes and it should do the work on it's own, and if not it should have a really good start to the job for you.

Next, it's got a lot of what looks like bloating. I'm unsure of what causes that but my best guess is it has to do with the shedding. It also looks like the snake has some scars on it's back, but those could be blisters you're talking about?

Onto the set up. Get rid of the aspen. Use paper towel until this problem is solved. It's a better substrate for now. You won't need to use anything to insulate the heatpad with a dimmer or thermostat. You also need at least one other hide box. On the cool side. The snake needs to thermo-regulate but also feel secure. Hiding behind the water bowl won't cut it. You can remove the log, it doesn't need it, and if you like it, put it back after it's healthy again. You could add a third hide box as well, known as a humid hide. As mentioned already, place some of it dampened into a hide and this will raise the humidity for the snake to shed from. Start with this stuff and we'll go from there. Also, you don't need to buy expensive hides. Just anything will do. I have used shoeboxes. Best thing about cardboard is you can throw it out when it's soiled. You can also cut a hole in a margarine container type thing for the humid hide.

[butters5620]

hey just a couple more quick questions before I get started on the 'makeover' haha. What is the best way to regulate the humidity? I have a screen top and found the damp towel idea on the internet but I'm not sure if that brings it up enough or not. I'm going to go buy some moss, a controlled UTH, and a third hide tomorrow along with a hygrometer. If there's anything else I need to get to help regulate humidity plz let me know and i'll do my best to make it work. any good idea will help. Thanks for helping me out btw its nice to know I'm not the only one who cares about my bp haha.

As for those scars you are seeing... They're from the time he escaped his cage! My fat cat sat on the screen and broke it and I think he must have cut himself getting out. When I found him I was concerned about the cut so I cleaned his cage to make it sanitary. I wouldn't think that this adventure would have anything to do with his current problems seeing as this happened in August '08.

[mykee]

Those pictures almost made me cry. I've never in all my years seen a ball python is as bad a shape. I'm going to bow out of this thread and Aaron can offer you some awesome advice.

[Kmef07]

im confused if when looking at those pics if that UTH is keeping the whole cage hot enough??????? also along with the bloating thing im not trying to scare you but before my bp died a while back it bloated like that a couple times and died the last time. it is supposedly caused by constipation. im not really that good with the bps yet so this is just suggestions have this confirmed by aaron first or julian or mykee. the humidity being down could be causing the constipation. also there could be some sort of parasite that is causing the bloating. i don't really konw what else. It could be really dehydrated though. There could be some internal bleeding going on and that is why there is blood seeping but i would assume that would be fatal really fast so i don't think that could be going on but i dunno again just suggestions and thoughts.

[butters5620]

Okay well tomorrow i'm going to get a bunch of things that I need but i need help on how to get the humidity up. I am certain that it is way too low and has never been at the right level. The pet store told me not to bother with humidity and they were wrong. Thats why I'm trying so hard now to make everything right. Do you suggest I give my snake Tums or Ex-Lax? Haha ya i just need some experienced people to help me with this. Before I can diagnose the problems I need to give him the proper environment because the one he lived in before is what caused all the problems. And I've pretty much confirmed that the blisters were caused by heat when I went to pick up the heating pad today and tested it. The bottom was a little discolored and it was well over 100 degrees! My snake could have burrowed under the aspen and sat right on the glass it was under. It also had a smoky scent to it so the temperature of the pad must change a lot. Well I have a smaller heating pad i'm using temporarily and its doing fine. tomorrow I will go get supplies and an adjustable UTH but I'm really gonna need help from you guys to get the temperature and humidity to the right level and give him the best environment possible. That's all I have to say for now so if anyone has any good ideas on how to bring up the humidity and temperature of the cage, please please please let me know ok? I will post a picture of the redone enclosure within the next couple of days and next sunday I will post another picture of my snake to compare and see if he's getting any better. KEEP POSTING IDEAS!!!

[Aaron_S]

Don't buy a new UTH you just need a dimmer or theromstat. DImmers cost like 10 bucks.

To raise humidity is to use a humid hide and spray. Also a large water dish. Also a non-screen lid. Like I said you need to get rid of that shed. Start with that.

[Chu'Wuti]

Jordan, I am soooo glad that these guys have come to help you out, because I have never seen anything like what your snake has in 30 years of snake-keeping. I hope the guys can help you solve the problem and save your snake.

I'm really glad you're taking responsibility for this creature you have in your care; he has no one else to depend on for his life. I know it must be really hard to take the time for a snake when you're 16 and have a ton of other interests. So let's work really hard on this and get him into better shape fast! Good luck!

[Chu'Wuti]

rrrrrghghg my whole post just disappeared into the ether. Let me try again.

Jordan, I am sooo glad these guys came to help out, because in 30 years of snake-keeping, I have never seen anything like what's wrong with your snake! I really hope that the problem was over-heating & now can be fixed easily.

I'm really glad that you're taking responsibility for taking care of this creature in your care, because he has no one else to depend on for his life. I know it must be really hard to take time for this kind of thing when you're 16 and have lots of other interests and things to do. So hang in there--let's work really hard on this to save your snake and get the problem fixed quickly!

Aaron, Mykee, Julian---thank you VERY MUCH for coming to help Jordan out!

[citysnakes]

wow. that guy is in some pretty rough shape...

first off i would definitely suggest taking your ball python to see a good reptile vet.

to be honest im not really sure why the snake is all swollen and lumpy but you should stop with the feedings for while. get that extremely bad retained shed off of him by soaking him overnight and and then gently rubbing it off the next day. he looks pretty backed up so hopefully the soak and/or the removal of that retained shed will help him pass whatever he cant at the moment.

try that out first then show us some after pictures of what he looks like.

also you cant guess the temperature by how you think it feels, you need to measure it. go get a couple of digital thermometers and place one of the probes on the glass directly over the heat pad and that will tell you how hot the surface temperature is. use the other one to measure air temperature within the tank.

i think you may need a heat bulb to raise the air temperature inside the tank. i would remove the damp towel and wrap the screen lid with plastic wrap up until where the heat lamp will be placed. pour some water in the aspen and then mix it well. keep it slightly damp but not wet. this and daily misting, combined with the plastic wrapped lid, should help with the humidity within the tank.

im even thinking that since you cant control the heat of the UTH then get rid of it and heat the tank only with a heat bulb. this way if the air temp of the hot side is too high you can simply raise the lamp or if its too low you can get a higher wattage heat bulb.

i hope these thoughts can help you in some way. good luck.

[Chu'Wuti]

Now both posts have appeared! Crazy!

Julian, Aaron, do you think the snake has fecoliths? I wondered about that possibility, although Jordan did say the lumps are soft, not hard. But fecoliths--or at least severe constipation--seems like a possibility with the low humidity & maybe poor ambient temps in the rest of the enclosure--he might have been staying in a too-hot hide because the rest of the enclosure was too cold, and he might not be digesting his food properly for the same reasons.

Jordan, has your snake defecated within a week after every meal? If he's not defecating, then he may have developed fecoliths or at least is badly constipated. As bad as he looks, I have to agree with Julian that this may be a really good time for a vet--can you find a good herp-certified vet in your area? If your snake has a serious case of fecoliths and the warm-water soak doesn't help, only a vet can help.

As Julian said, soaking him in warm water (85 deg F) might help. When you do that, get a plastic bowl with a lid. The bowl should be big enough that he can coil up in it fairly comfortably. Put some air holes in the lid. Fill the bowl about 3/4 full and put the snake in--he should be able to keep his nose above the water even when you put the lid on the bowl. Put the whole thing back in the enclosure and lock the enclosure--that way, if he pops the lid off the bowl, you won't lose him. A good soaking will definitely help with the shed and may help if the snake has developed fecoliths, but there's no guarantee. If he's not to the fecolith point yet, there's a better probability that a warm-water bath will help.

This all depends on whether the snake has been defecating regularly or not, though, Jordan. If he has been defecating after every meal, then he's not constipated, and this treatment might not help the bloating/bubbles at all, though it will definitely help with the snake's dehydration.

[Kmef07]

After you get everything under control you will need something better than cling wrap to put over the top of that screen. There are many ways to do it one is to get a piece of plexiglas and put that over most of the top right up to the heat lamp.

i would also suggest a ceramic heat emitter instead of a heat lamp. i need a ton of humidity in my tank and i found the ceramic HE was a lot better at keeping that up than the heat lamps were.

I also built a wooden box over my enclosure it took like 15 mins and it was easy then i put a towel over the top of that. and drilled some holes in the box so it would move air really well. the holes need to be towards the top on one end and towards the bottom on the other for it to cycle air into the tank. The box is a more attractive and better solution than just putting on a damp towel. also the box is tall enough for me to put the dome lights under it and it keeps the heat up a lot better. i tried the towel and i was having to mist the towel every day.

I don't think that anyone here has mentioned the actually ideal ambient air temp your cage should be at and unfortunately im not a bp expert but there are a ton of care sheets out there for them and it will tell you what you need the temps to be at.

Good luck!!!!

[mykee]

Ok; I'm with Julian definitely. Stop feeeding your ball python. I would imagine (and this is only an educated guess because I've never seen anything like it before) but I think the snakes problem might be, and please other forum members correct me if I'm wrong here, but it looks to me like all of the food that was in the snakes belly over a few weeks at least has cooked itself because of the far too high temps. You'll definitely need to stop feeding, and soak your ball python in Pedialyte to stop dehydration. You can re-use the unabsorbed/drank liquid. Soak for 10-15 minutes a day in a seperate tub. Room temperature (clear) Pedialyte will relpenish the electrolytes that give it (despite it's extended abdomen) it's dehydrated look. Get your husbandry correct, and palpate the belly to feel if it feels hard or pliable. If it is hard, you may have any issue with the rotted food inside.
Not sure what other advice I can give you aside from pray.

[butters5620]

Wow I am so confused right now... I just don't know what to do! There isn't a single herpetologist in my city and the closest one's are many miles away in like boise and pocatello. Getting my snake to a herpetologist just doesn't seem like a possibility at this point. I have the snake in the bathtub right now. I put in just enough warm water to keep him submerged and able to poke his head out of the water without being too uncomfortable. I put an extra dish of water in his cage and placed the hot UTH under the bowl. that and the damp towel is changing the humidity greatly and I can feel that its warmer and damper when I put my hand inside the cage. I'm going to pick up some stuff at PetSmart today but I'm really not sure what to get now besides a hygrometer, moss, and another hide. If I can relieve the constipation I'm sure he would be a lot more comfortable. Last time I cleaned his cage there were a few green and white poops and a big brown one so he doesn't seem to have a lot of trouble pooping although i'm sure he's constipated at the moment. And I have the shed off now. Since I started raising the humidity, it came off just fine. I'm not sure what else to say right now except for that I'm doing my best and keep the comments coming! I'll try and keep you updated
OH and one more thing, and where do I find this pedialyte stuff?

[butters5620]

:)GOOD NEWS!!! I just took my snake out of the tub and I noticed a very small amount of poo near the end. I palpated his near his/her tail (I've never quite figured out if its male or femal btw haha) and he urinated. I continued to palpate and he pooped a little haha. It was a good sized ball of white and brown poo but I'm very sure it has relieved some of his discomfort. I will continue soaking for the next couple of days and get some of that Pedialyte to make sure he stays hydrated! But ya I will stop feeding him until he starts to look more healthy and I get the proper temperature and humidity in his cage. Thanks so much for the soaking suggestion!!!!

[Aaron_S]

Get the thermometer. Who cares what you feel with your hand! Technically just because you 'feel' more humidity that could mean it's been raised by 5 - 10% and still not be where it's supposed to be! Please please check the temperatures and humidity properly as suggested.

[Kmef07]

hey by the way make sure the bath water is not too hot. we just had a long thread about our hot compared to a reptiles hot. make sure you are checking the water temp with a thermometer first. im sure chu and aaron will second this thought.

[citysnakes]

you will need something better than cling wrap to put over the top of that screen.


cling wrap actually works very well and is extremely convenient. simply wrapping up the screen widthwise, multiple times from one end to the other or up until the heat lamp, allowed my tanks to retain lots of moisture within the air. i never had issues with humidity and my snakes rarely experienced bad sheds.

butters5620, if you are to get anything get two thermometers and forget about the hygrometer for now. you first need to find out the exact temperature of that heat pad because you may be cooking your snake. i would even unplug the heat pad until you get the thermometer to measure its temperature. use the other thermometer to measure the air temperature within the tank. you may need a heat lamp if the air temperature is too cool.

also i dont know who suggested taking your snake to a herpetologist but a good reptile vet may help...

[mykee]

Everyone in this forum is a herpetologist. I'm guessing no one is a vet.
Butters; you've gotten a LOT of info over the last two days. Here is a list of what you'll need to pick up when you out.
1. Paper towels to use as a substrate.
2. A hygrometer for measuring humidity
3. A proper thermometer for measuring temperature (many times, you can find a combo hygrometer/thermometer in one unit).
4. A dimmer or thermostat for your UTH (this is a MUST)
5. Pedialyte

[butters5620]

That's what I meant when I said herpetologist. I thought they were the same thing. But no unfortunately I can't find any reptile vets nearby and I have no way of getting to the ones that are over 200 miles away! The local vets are all farm, dog and cat vets so that one is out of the question. Besides, the snakes $80 and the vet could be well over that for meds and whatnot. So I think its safe to say there is no way I would be able to convince my dad to take him to a vet. At least that is the speech that he gave me. Trust me I would love to take him to a vet and if I did I probably wouldn't have ever visited this website! As for the supplies, I got a hygrometer and one digital thermometer. Also, I got him another hide and some moss to wet when he sheds (if he makes it that far :(). I couldnt convince my dad to buy the dimmer or the pedialyte. He's owned snakes before and thought it would be rediculous to get them (shows what he knows!). Oh well if the snake dies he better know he's getting me a new one! Well enough of that, let's get to the temperatures and humdity of his cage. The humidity is currently a little over 80 :). As for temps, the glass right over the UTH reads 102*F!!! But above the cloth and aspen it reads 90*F (where the snake sits). The overall temperature in the cage is only 76*F :( which is too low isn't it? My dad and I are going to build a top for the cage out of wood hopefully this week but until that I have covered the screen top with a damp towel to keep in humidity and heat. It brought up the humidity and is slowly increasing temperature. Oh and I still don't know what this pedialyte stuff is or where to get it, maybe you could explain it a bit more. So keep posting!

[Chu'Wuti]

Hi, Jordan! You're doing a great job of keeping us posted. You're correct that your ambient temp is too low. I'm wondering--is the enclosure located near a window or in a cold room? (Of course, you are in Idaho!) If you can move the enclosure to a warmer spot in the room, that might help with the ambient temp problem.

Get some newspaper or several layers of paper toweling (say 1/4" thick) and put over the UTH to ensure a layer of insulation between the snake and the UTH. You can put the aspen & cloth over that; the main thing is that if the snake moves the aspen shavings around enough that he gets close to the UTH, he won't cook with more insulation there to protect him. (or her).

Good work on bringing the humidity up.

Pedialyte is a clear liquid that helps improve electrolyte (minerals) balance in a creature that's ill. It's generally used when infants or children (or elderly people) have diarrhea, but if Mykee says it will help your snake, then you might as well try it. If an animal's electrolyte balance gets out of whack, its cells can't maintain the proper fluid levels, so by maintaining a good electrolyte balance, you'll help the snake stay hydrated throughout its body, which may help save its life.

Pedialyte comes in a transparent plastic bottle; you can get it at WalMart or Target or a drugstore. First go to the official pedialyte website (pedialyte.com) and you can get a coupon. I just googled pedialyte and a link for the website popped up; when I clicked on the website, they offered a $1.50 coupon that can be printed. When you go to the store, just ask a clerk where in the store you can find it (it'll probably be in the pharmacy section somewhere).

A herpetologist is a person who studies reptiles and amphibians. You are a herpetologist in the way Mykee is defining it, as he's allowing a broad definition that includes all us amateurs who keep snakes, though technically it is generally applied to someone who is studying these animals professionally.

I can't think of anything else at the moment. Hang in there--we're all praying that your snake gets better!

[butters5620]

Okay I'm going to go get some pedialyte today but a quick question first. How do I give it to the snake? Do I submerge him in it? Do I somehow make him drink it? Do I add it to a solution of water and soak him in it? Do I add water and make him drink it? Or will he absorb the electrolytes through his skin? And if I need to make him drink it, what is the best way? because I know even humans hate the taste of pedialyte haha. Oh wait forget about flavor they have an unflavored kind. But I still need those other questions answered!

[Aaron_S]

Don't buy a flavoured version of pedialyte. If you go back and actually read Mykee's post you'll see that he has outlined how to use it.

The thing about aspen is that it's a loose substrate. Meaning that the snake will easily burrow or by simply moving around it will get itself down to the glass part of the enclosure. Meaning that the snake can EASILY get to that 102F glass.

[mykee]

"the snakes $80 and the vet could be well over that for meds and whatnot."
Dude, that was the wrong thing to say!

[butters5620]

Hey I have the snake soaking in Pedialyte right now. I dont like to stress him like this but, you know, whatever keeps him alive. He hasn't pooped since yesterday but after soaking him in Pedialyte for the next couple of days I am going to go back to soaking him in warm water to try and solve the constipation problem. I also have some good news/bad news. Good news: I searched the internet and found the number for the Twin Falls Animal Clinic. I called them and talked to the doctor and he says he should be able to diagnose the problem if I bring the snake in for a visit. Bad News: A visit is $36 dollars and my dad told me he wasn't paying for a doctor to tell me stuff I might already know. I'm going to see if my grandma can put some money into my debit account to pay for the visit if he doesn't look any better by next week. Regular News: I have spring break starting the 14th so after next week I will be able to give my snake full attention for that week of spring break. Oh and Mykee, I appreciate your help and advice and its helping a lot but don't be going all Snake-Hippee on me. I am doing all that I can right now and I'm not just gonna throw in the towel because I'm strapped for cash! I've just gotta work with what I've got and right now. So I'm going to try and get caught up with all the good suggestions by getting the new cage top built outta wood (gonna build a heat lamp into it!). Meanwhile you guys keep up with all the great advice and I will have more pictures to compare this weekend!

[Wolfus_305]

Looks like you've gotten great advice!
Glad to hear that it's getting better, slowly, but still!
Kenny

[Chu'Wuti]

I suspect Jordan is stuck in a tough situation here--he really wants to do the best he can to save his snake, but he doesn't have a job or money and is pretty dependent on what dad is willing to pay (unless grandma helps). Dad sounds a lot like some of the old-timers I knew out in the country--animals were never taken to the vet, unless it was your horse that was sick--you needed the horse to get your work done, so it could be worth taking it to the vet. But not the dog or the barn cats or, many times, even the cattle. We didn't call the vet even if a cow was having trouble birthing--we pulled the calf ourselves. The attitude was pretty much "animals live, they die, if it's sick, it's weak, then maybe it oughta die. We're not 'throwing good money after bad.'"

It's not the way my dad raised me, but he explained it to me pretty well. It's all about ROI (return on investment), and if the I goes too high, the R won't be enough to make up for it, so the I is always controlled.

Mykee, I know it's not the way you think or want to hear others talking; it's not the way I think either. Unfortunately, it's a reality for many people, and Jordan may be living under that reality.

Jordan, I'm really glad that you're not throwing in the towel and that you're willing to find other ways to get the snake to a vet. I'm actually really impressed that you're working as hard as you are to get this snake back to health, because I know too many 16-year olds who wouldn't bother. You're a good kid (hope you're not offended by me calling you that--it's meant as a compliment!) and we're all backing you!

Hang in there!

[Chu'Wuti]

Just a little more to explain the thinking of some people:

there are three kinds of animals: Work animals, meat (money) animals, & pets.

Work animals included horses & some dogs (e.g., trained for herding)--they were worth paying a vet to help.

Meat/money animals--the cattle, sheep, chickens. Cattle MIGHT be worth having a vet check on--big R. Chickens weren't worth it--the R is too small.

Pets--generally, the women's house dogs, and some "ride-along" dogs--no money available for a vet--no R of a monetary nature, which was all that counted for most people. (I should say, "counts for most people," I guess)

Ride-along dogs might fall in a special category--they could be trained & thus "deserving" of vet care, or they simply could be a companion & so, on an economic basis, less "deserving," but a lot of guys would get them vet care unless they just didn't have the money to pay for it. Then, of course, they'd have to justify to their wives why they paid a vet good money for the ride-along dog when they'd refused to pay a vet for the pet . . .

'Nuff lecturing; sorry! It's just that I understand the attitude. I'm really fortunate that my grandfather & father didn't agree with that mindset, so I got raised to respect all life and to believe that if I take a living animal into my care, I am taking responsibility for its life and that its life is just is valuable as my own. There are a lot of people who don't get taught that nowadays.

[butters5620]

Well its the end of the road you guys. I arrived home at 7:30 PM with a brand new wooden cage top my dad and I had just finished building. My dad tells me "Hey call me when you get home and tell me if the top fits." Well when I got home, I went upstairs all excited to make the enclosure even better. Unfortunately, the snake had died some time after I went to school and before I got home :(. Ya, started to cry. I didn't know what to do or say. There was no point in burying him since we will be moving within the next couple of months. So I wrapped him up in some nice cloth from a small T-shirt I had, said some good words, and placed him in the garbage as my own little funeral. I'm still getting teary eyed typing up this this paragraph :'-(

When I found him he had a dark green spot on his belly and the clear blisters were filled with blood. The rest of is underbelly was starting to turn a light green too. You know I just put as much effort as I possibly could into getting this snake back to health and now its all for nothing. Wow, it just makes me so mad that this happened. And it makes me look bad as a snake owner and now I don't know if I should get another snake! But ya thanks a lot for all of your help. It was a stressful week for me and I know you guys did your best to help. I'll probably still visit this site every now and then so you guys should still hear from me. Well if I ever do get another snake I know where to look for help first!

-Jordan P.

[Aaron_S]

Jordan is there isn't anything that I can say that will ease your feelings. We do commend you for coming here and listening to our suggestions and doing what you can to help your snake.

The colour on the underbelly is, I suspect, the snake starting to decay on the inside or blood pooling up in some spots. Either way we won't know what happened to the snake and if you do decide to get another one some time down the road (after you move maybe) be sure to do your homework first on how to properly care for it. let this snake's death be a lesson.

[butters5620]

Well now that my python is dead my dad feels really bad. What he wants to do now is buy a burmese python. He used to raise them and has a lot of experience with them. We are trying to buy ASAP. Its surprising how fast things are going. I just barely put my snake to rest inside a dirty old garbage can and he's already buying a new one! Oh well at least I won't be on my own and there will be a bunch more experience involved. I'm pretty excited but at the same time nervous. Heck I've learned a lot though!!! I will probably start a new thread once everything is back on track and finalized

[Aaron_S]

Why don't you both wait? You and your dad faltered with one of the basic pythons. Now you're moving upto one of the largest snakes? Burmese pythons aren't ball pythons. I don't believe your dad is really that knowledgable. Burmese pythons are notorious for being forgiving of bad husbandry. Maybe that's what your dad did?

[Chu'Wuti]

Jordan, I'm so sorry to hear that your snake died; I know you were trying to save it. I think it had just been too unhealthy for too long; it may have been close to death when you first posted on this forum.

Jordan, we don't want to be disrespectful of your dad, but it doesn't appear that he knows as much about snakes as he might need to know to ensure they stay healthy, or else he might have been able to help you better. Pythons should live a loooong time--I expect that one of my sons will inherit the BP I have now, because I'm old enough that it's likely to outlive me. They can easily--if cared for properly--live longer than you are old right now.

BPs are easy snakes, but something went seriously wrong with yours. Before you get another snake, learn all you can about proper husbandry so that you can give it the best home possible and help it live a long and healthy life.

I hope you won't be offended by what we're saying--we truly don't mean to be offensive. We just believe that snakes--like any animal--should be cared for carefully so that they live as healthy and comfortable a life as possible in captive conditions.

Hang in there.