depi jani/crimson corn

[SPIDERMAN69]

I have a crimson corn male in a community of female rat snakes and a female depi jani (pine).
unintentionally my corn seems obsessed with mating the pine snake .I had no intetion of reproducing from the two but I am now curious as to wether or not this copulation could be productive

[siz]

A community? How many snakes are all housed together? I would recommend housing all your snakes serperatley, or at the very, very least, remove your corn and house it in a different enclosure.
As to your specific question, I don't think it would really be feesable.

[Chu'Wuti]

Extremely unlikely, as the corn snake (Elaphe guttata) and the Northern Mexican pine snake (Pituophis deppai jani, assuming that's what you meant) are different genera in addition to being different species.

Though species within the same genera can sometimes interbreed and produce offspring, the offspring are generally sterile. Species from different genera are most often unable to interbreed, and when they do, offspring are much less likely.

I agree with Siz--you need to separate the snakes into individual enclosures. Snakes do much better in isolation. I suspect you're lucky someone hasn't been eaten.

[SPIDERMAN69]

please excuse my crappy spelling.

thanks for your reply and advice. I keep all my rat snakes together in a large viv,most of them are females with the exception of the crimson corn and a motley corn whom has only recently come of age .Come summer time I intend to build another viv of similar size to house male rat snakes.Needless to say he will be going to "this bachelor pad" with any others that I acquire.

thanks again for the advice both of you

[gonesnakee]

Extremely unlikely, as the corn snake (Elaphe guttata) and the Northern Mexican pine snake (Pituophis deppai jani, assuming that's what you meant) are different genera in addition to being different species.

Though species within the same genera can sometimes interbreed and produce offspring, the offspring are generally sterile. Species from different genera are most often unable to interbreed, and when they do, offspring are much less likely.

I agree with Siz--you need to separate the snakes into individual enclosures. Snakes do much better in isolation. I suspect you're lucky someone hasn't been eaten.

Well to correct a couple things. Many snakes CAN breed successfully outside their own species & the offspring ARE usually fertile specially in the case of Corn crosses. Corns have been successfuly crossed with multiple King & Milk species for sure as well as Gopher snakes & possibly others as well. All resulting offspring are fertile & capable of reproducing themselves as well.

As for housing multiple specimens of multiple species together its BAD HUSBANDRY plain & simple for a whole bunch of reasons. Run a quick search on group housing & you will find TONS of cons & no pros.
Unless being a cheap arse & not providing the individual housing they all should have is considered a "pro". Group housing benefits none of the snakes, only the keeper. Mark

[Chu'Wuti]

Many snakes CAN breed successfully outside their own species & the offspring ARE usually fertile specially in the case of Corn crosses. Corns have been successfuly crossed with multiple King & Milk species for sure as well as Gopher snakes & possibly others as well. All resulting offspring are fertile & capable of reproducing themselves as well.

Mark, thanks for the correction. So what it sounds like to me is that all snakes within the same family, e.g., Colubridae, can interbreed successfully, is that right? So Pituophis, Elaphe, and Lampropeltis are all capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring. Is the same true in other snake families as well?

I have never gotten into breeding of snakes (only cats), so I was basing my information on what would be true for mammalian species, obviously incorrectly. I learned something new today; thanks!

[gonesnakee]

Not all can successfully but many have been already proven successful. Corns cross into many other NA Colubrids very well as do other ratsnakes.
I believe there have also been crosses between BPs & Bloods, Womas & Carpets.
Also Xs between ATBs & ETBs.
Crosses between Carpets & GTPs (Carpondros).
There was also a cross between a Carpet & a Woma before too, but not sure how that went (if they survived or the offspring was fertile if they survived).
Also crosses between Burms & Retics (Bateaters).
Thats all I can think of right off my head for now anyway. Mark

[Aaron_S]

Mark is correct in his list of hybrids. There's more I'm sure of as well. I also have not heard of ANY hybrid reptiles being sterile.

[gonesnakee]

Ya it seems even the lizards Xs are fertile etc. Mark

[Smilts]

Corns are crossed with half of everything I think. I'm not sure how a community of rats would work I havnt observed one in the wild. Or why you would keep them together much less other types of snakes no matter how close corns are to rats. To me it just doesnt make sense at all sorry.

[Chu'Wuti]

I also have not heard of ANY hybrid reptiles being sterile.

That is really interesting; I wonder why snake crosses don't produce mules? ;)

Apparently the distinctions & differentiation between "species" are more due to natural isolation factors than to genetic differences. Hmmm . . .

why you would keep them together much less other types of snakes . . . to me it just doesnt make sense at all sorry.

Ya got me. and don't be sorry, Coy.

Spiderman didn't sound like he was going to change things, though. Just thanked us politely for our advice after informing us he would be continuing the housing arrangement (with one for males & one for females). *sigh*

[Wolfus_305]

Wow! So much new info!
Sounds pretty cool though!
Kenny

[Chu'Wuti]

So much new info! Sounds pretty cool though!

Yeah, it really does. No wonder snake breeding is such an exciting and active area for so many snake-keepers.