Breeding season

[angie_85]

I have asked this before and never got an answer. Just wondering if you can breed snakes at any time of year, as long as you go through the whole process? Say in may, if you wanted to, could you start the breeding process for your snakes? What might be some pros and cons? I won't be attempting for quite some time as my female is only 744g last time I weighed her, but just curious as I haven't read much about it. Just that one person on a site said it didn't matter, as long as you do everything the same...just curious.:crazy2:

[mykee]

You should separate your ball pythons before you even consider breeding them. That's all I have to say on the matter.

[Kmef07]

You should separate your ball pythons before you even consider breeding them. That's all I have to say on the matter

Haha mykee. You are never going to let that go........

[siz]

But Kyle, it's important that Angie can take proper care of her snakes before she takes on the burden of having X many baby snakes wiggling around as well. If she thinks it's alright to keep the 3 together mabye now is not the time to breed, as I have said in the other thread.
Angie, not trying to attack you, just clarifying for Kyle. How are your snakes doing?

[Kmef07]

oh i agree jess i just think it is funny that's all. and how he worded it was funny.

[mykee]

You've gotta learn how to walk before you can run. If you can't properly take care of three ball pythons, god help any babies that come into this world being cared for incorrectly right from the get-go. It's just irresponsible and I for one will not offer advice to further it.

[angie_85]

So...is anyone going to answer me or just keep attacking me? I really thought this site was meant to help people not to take any and all anger issues out on them at the first chance? I have said before that I DO NOT intend on breeding them at all right now as they are all too small, it was just a question that I was curious about. I DO house these 3 snakes together and they are thriving. I may some day decide to seperate them but right now I am not. If I am not going to be taken seriously I might as well just leave, and anything that I think is right for my snakes just do it without any advice right? If you think that attacking me is going to vhange my mind I must say that it gertainly will not. From what I can tell nobody on here wishes to help other snake owners and I do not understand why. I have come for advice not a lecture. Isn't it better for me to do everything right besides one then do more things wrong with them because I do not have a reliable source of knowledge? I would appreciate people taking what I say seriously, and answering the questions that I ask, is this not what the forum is for? I would not like a bunch of spam on my posts because you people think that it is fun. If you do not want to answer my question then please go write somewhere else like a blog about how stupid some people are :)

[mykee]

"From what I can tell nobody on here wishes to help other snake owners and I do not understand why"

We've tried to help, you won't listen. I'm done. I'll save my knowledge and experience for those who care to hear it.

[Smilts]

you strait said that you know better what to do than the people you were asking advice from. With that as a starting point how do you expect those same people to try and give further advice? There is a difference between a attack and realizing a refusal to learn. Though I do admit its way easier to get a answer usually if you happen to be doing something wrong:) I do not believe that it would be as easy as it sounds to switch a snake or any reptiles natural cycles around. I Could well be wrong

[Aaron_S]

Why does everyone believe any reply in a thread is "spam" unless it answers their question with the answer they want.

Anyways, yes it's possible.

I DO house these 3 snakes together and they are thriving.

Now that I answered your question, tell me, how do solitary animals with no social interaction with one another (other than breeding) "thrive" when set up in a communal enclosure?

[mykee]

"Now that I answered your question, tell me, how do solitary animals with no social interaction with one another (other than breeding) "thrive" when set up in a communal enclosure?
"
Keeper ignorance.

[angie_85]

Mykee: If you do not want to help me learn then why post on anything I write on here?

Coy: I have never said that I know better than anyone on here, if you or anyone else took something I said to mean that then I am sorry, this was not my intention. I am asking questions because I do want to learn. I may have refused to give them seperate housing for now, that doesn't mean however that I do not care about them at all. I have come here asking questions because I want people's opinions.

Aaron S: I think a post is spam if it is not related to the topic or question asked. If I get an answer that is apparently not the one I want to hear, I still do take it into consideration. I am more likely to take someone's advice if they are simply stating facts and not making rude remarks. If someone can't read a post of mine and answer a question I have without making a rude comment, I am likely going to disregard anything they say in the future. I am an adult and I expect to be talking to adults here.
Now that you say yes it is possible, is it healthy? Is it any different from putting them through a "normal" breeding season? Will there be any risks?
What I mean by thriving is gaining weight and having no health problems to date. Eating regularly and having perfect sheds. If this is not what your idea of thriving, I guess we have another difference of opinion.

Anyone else: If you all wish to attack me on the way I house my snakes, I can make another post strictly about that and you can all attack me on there but I would appreciate that if I ask a question that has nothing to do with housing, please stay on topic. I am here to leaarn about my snakes and going through endless posts that are off topic is a waste of my time.

[Kmef07]

ok listen im not on here to try and piss you off but if you know anything about forums they usually always get off topic. that is how a conversation goes. that is how people learn new things about and from other people.

i understand you getting pissed about people attacking you but you have to look from their point of view also. they are right in saying that you need to crawl before you walk, and to everyone else giving you advice on breeding when you could possibly use it makes everyone feel that they are contributing to the problem. we have no idea if you are going to actually wait to breed or not. you might be saying that you aren't going to breed just so people will anwer your questions.

and if you want to be treated like an adult then grow up and realize that you need to put other things that you care for (i.e. your bp's) first and your own wishes of housing them together second. when you have an animal/s then you must put their needs first and yours second. these people on here have been doing this for a long time and that fact that they all tell you the same thing doesn't mean anything to you then i don't care how old you are that doesn't make you an adult. you have the nerve to ask advice and then when it is given to you, you just smack everyone in the face by saying that you aren't goig to follow it and argue with them. if you aren't willing to do what your told then don't ask and don't waste the time of the other people on this forum that are trying to help you.

[angie_85]

I understand getting off topic, what I do not appreciate is every time I ask a question, I get the same remarks. I do see why people would not want me to house them together, I really do see their points and do understand. However, I do not agree. I know all of the reasons why not to house them together...1:they might eat each other (I do not believe they will if fed regularly and housed at the right temperatures, also I do have 2 breeders so far that agree with me) 2: if they get sick I will not know which one is sick (also a maintenance issue on their housing, if kept clean I believe that I will not have any issues with sick snakes) 3: in the wild they aren't found in groups (they are not in the wild anymore. In the wild they eat small reptiles and likely never eat dead animals. Does that mean I should feed them the same thing? Should I risk them getting sick from reptiles bought at a pet store? Should I always feed live prey and risk them being injured? Should I feed them in their 'habitat' and risk a bite? No, of course not. so as far as I am concerned they are no longer in the wild. In the wild they do not stay in groups mainly because they have to hunt for their food, why stay with more snakes that you will have to fight for food? In my house they all get fed appropriate meal sizes on a regular schedule. 4:they will fight for the best heat sources and hides (they have plenty of room to roam around and are usually found all together on one side of the tank or the other, if one is cold, it can find plenty of places to go to warm up. These are some reasons that I have heard on why not to house them together and my thoughts on them. I have only heard of few occasions that one snake will eat another and no one can be sure of the housing and feeding procedures so it may not have even been that one just wanted to eat the other.
If I was going to lie about breeding them, I would have lied about housing them together also. I completely understand that a female needs to be a certain weight or more and in good health before breeding her. If people choose not to believe me then ask yourself why I would go through all the hassle of people attacking me about my housing them together when I could have just avoided it all and lied about it?
As I have said before, they were housed together from a young age and two of the breeders that I know do not see a problem, as long as I do everything else for them perfectly.
I do appreciate everyone's opinions, that is why i ask questions. Just because I do not agree with some things doesn' mean I do not care what people have to say, I just have a different opinion is all.
I have never askes any advice on housing them together. In that case I have not asked any question of anyone and just disregarded the answer. I think that I have acted quite maturely in not putting anyone down, and I would appreciate the same. Is that too much to ask? Just because a person has a difference in opinion does not make them wrong or make it ok to ridicule the person. This forum is supposed to help people right? Not put a person down and comment rudely towards them when they are just asking questions? If you all just want me to go somewhere else for my questions I can, or like I said I can make a new thread where you cal all comment on my housing, instead of every post I make.

[Smilts]

4: they will fight for the best heat sources and hides (they have plenty of room to roam around and are usually found all together on one side of the tank or the other, if one is cold, it can find plenty of places to go to warm up.
Isnt that a bit strange ther not going to circle round a arena and the last one out gets the best spots. You have just said as much as there fighting for the best spot. Well anyway do wht you would like I dont really care either way.

[citysnakes]

wow angie sorry to say it but there is lots of wrong thinking going on in that last post.

[angie_85]

Ok, so obviously I do not understand something. If you care to explain, possibly in the other thread, so that I can go back to it and know where it is, that would be great.

[mykee]

Round and around and around we go... you say you want to learn, but when we give you VALID reasons why what you're doing is wrong, you say you know better. You madam, are the most frustrating person I have EVER met on a forum.
You know, on any other forum, your incessant ignorance and pffft-ing in the face of reason would label you as a TROLL and you would be banned on the spot. Lucky there are no Mods here, eh?

[Aaron_S]

You know what Angie? We all gave you valid reasons but you keep asking for more. You ask the same questions.

Secondly, if you breed any snake once a year, "out of season" it shoudn't cause any ill effects.

Lastly, the biggest reason to seperate your snakes, your male(s) will be ready to breed before your female(s) are. Thus they will try to continually breed your female(s) most likely stressing them out, thus making them sick. If a female HAPPENS to have it happen at a too small size (does occur if housed together) then your female(s) will die.

[angie_85]

That is a good enough reason in itself. Though in another thread someone said they would likely not breed and I believe referred to them as "like an old married couple" they will be used to having each other around, and not bother. I know that there is no guarantee that either would happen, but the possible death of one or both females is a scary thought. Now I'm convinced that I at least need the male to be seperate from them as soon as possible. Sorry for being a troll mykee...lol. I would say stubborn and if 2 people I know have told me exactly what I want to hear, it is hard to go against that. I do not mean to argue, I don't mean to ask questions then disregard the answers, I just do not fully understand. Like I said, I have my own thoughts about all the reason why not to house them together. If one gets sick I'll take em all in to be sure, if one wants more heat...go get it...all those things that I have already said. The fact that the male may try and breed with the females sooner then they are ready does bother me quite a bit. May take me a while to build them the type of enclosure I want...a month or so if I work hard at it, but I am at least convinced that the male be seperated, and while I'm at it, I might as well seperate the females too. It'll be easier and prettier that way, and of course will be considered better by more than 2 people :P Will have to go look a bit closer at enclosure posts now...and darn it I just got the heat and humidity perfect in their tank too :( Thanks for not giving up on me guys...I know I can be difficult at times, I just don't completely understand at times and if I need a better explanation I ask for it.

[GoodSmeagol]

Angie, you crack me up.
If you do not like a response, if you feel you are being attacked.

Wait

Your a 10 year old girl
the other girls are bullying you
do you say to them
"WHATS WRONG WITH YOU?"
"Stop attacking me!!!"
"GOO AWAY"

is that what you do?
or do you simply walk away
(the correct choice would be to walk away...)
As, if you stop complaining people will lose interest in bullying you!

Ball pythons are difficult to breed, they need to be in the proper conditions
Your balls who are housed, will NOT breed, almost a gaurantee!
yourll screw up their internal cycle if you attempt to cool and breed them this late.

If you can NOT find information you are looking for, probably a good chance its wrong.
Proper information is widely available, improper information is very hard to come by.

GOTO HOME DEPOT< BUY BIG TUPPERWARE BINS X2
GOTO A PET STORE, BUY Under Tank Heaters X2
GOTO A PET STORE, BUY a RHEOSTAT
GOTO A PET STORE, BUY 3 Thermometres, WITH A PROBE!
GOTO HOME DEPOT, BUY VELCRO STRAPS (to secure bin lids)
punch holes in the top, no more then 1/4 inch


go home, and get those damn balls seperated!

[mykee]

"Ball pythons are difficult to breed, they need to be in the proper conditions
Your balls who are housed, will NOT breed, almost a gaurantee!"
A trained monkey could successfully breed ball pythons. A reeetarded trained monkey could successfully breed ball pythons. It's as easy as falling out of a tree.
You made some pretty bold statements that have ZERO basis in reality.

[GoodSmeagol]

Yeh what ever, I used hyperbole to make a point.

Angie will not successfully breed her pythons in their current scenario .
Say what you will, but I know stressed ball pythons will not breed.

[Aaron_S]

As stated by Mykee that yes they are "like an old married couple" but that doesn't mean that it could never happen. Just like how it's improbable for them to eat each other (since you say they won't if properly fed) Although, who's to say when a snake really is hungry and isn't? Or since you either A. feed them all together or B. seperate them to feed. If it's the latter of the two, and you put them back together when you think they are "done" then you could be mistaken when you find two of your snakes coiled around each other. After all, these snakes wouldn't hesitate to eat a smaller animal, any animal in the wild.

[Kmef07]

A reeetarded trained monkey
that is so funny i almost woke up my son laughing so hard.

[angie_85]

Ok so honestly I do plan to seperate them.
Honestly I do NOT plan to breed them until they are the perfect weight and health. I do not want to risk having one die on me, or both.
As I only have 3 snakes, and not a lot more I refuse to put them in rubbermaid containers. If you mean to just seperate them for now until their enclosure is made then yes I do understand but for me, this is not the best way to be able to see them wandering around so I do not want that to be a permanent home for them.
I realise that they may never even attempt to breed under their current circumstances but there is still a possibility. This is where I came to think, they may never try to eat each other, but there is a possibility. I do feed them seperately, but yes I do understand that the scent would still be on each and if one was still hungry, or even if not, the scent may make it attack the other.
I asked about cooling them at a different time of year simply because I was curious, not because I plan to. I just simply wanted to know everything I could about them and asked what I thought was a legitimate question. I have already stated many times that I do not plan on breeding them until they are in perfect health and weight. I have felt at times that I have been attacked, but I do understand that people are concerned for the health and well-being of my snakes so I deal with it.

[mykee]

As a breeder, you pale in comparison trying to mimic the cues in weather patterns that good old Mother Nature can provide. Breed when everyone else does, beginning in the late fall, through to April or May. These are the best weather conditions in North America to those of the rainy season in August in Western Africa to incite breeding. Don't try to compete with nature, you'll lose 100% of the time.

[SPIDERMAN69]

I have been keeping reptiles since I was knee high to a grass hopper.
I have also made mistakes"trial and error".I would have to be arrogant to believe that I know it all and couldn`t learn more from others.
I do keep snakes together succesfully and breed them.I can and do think outside the box and outside of this forum.
I can understand some of the comments which have been posted.
There are three main considerations to take into account when keeping snakes together.
1:males should really be kept seperate until mating is to take place( if mating is intended) this stimulates interest in some species
2: feeding must be done seperately(I feed some in pillow cases)and let only one feed in the viv.Never leave any uneaten prey in the viv with more than one snake present.
3:Allow as much room as possible(being fair to your snakes )
This has worked for me with many a species and in some cases has improved the insecurities of certain species.

For example a touchy species such as a grey rat,pine, snake wil never become very tame but will become much less touchy when kept with other similar snakes.

To the rest of you reading this thread open your minds and close your books.knowledge is good experience is better try not to be so pompous

[Aaron_S]

For example a touchy species such as a grey rat,pine, snake wil never become very tame but will become much less touchy when kept with other similar snakes.

You do know that a grey ratsnake and a pine snake are too different species, correct?

Even if I'm mistaken and there's a "grey rat pine snake", it is quite possible that stress from keeping it with another snake make it seem "less touchy". Stress contributes to the "tameness" of some animals.

[citysnakes]

To the rest of you reading this thread open your minds and close your books.knowledge is good experience is better try not to be so pompous

knowledge before experience will lead to better experiences.

a lot of these books are written by educated people with much experience with the animals they are writing about so i would consider some of them pretty good references for new and experienced keepers.

because i choose to individually house my snakes and disagree with anyone who thinks otherwise does not mean i am closed minded. it means i have done my research and through my experience have made up my mind on how to take proper care of them.

i would rather suggest to a new keeper to read a good book on a species then recommend some shady forum with who knows who giving out some sort of ridiculous "expert" advice...




Stress contributes to the "tameness" of some animals.

i can agree with that. two for two baby!

[Kmef07]

I agree with both aaron and julian.......they are right and good saying julian...

knowledge before experience will lead to better experiences