Feeding During Shed??????

[Kmef07]

Ok have a question that i seem to always get different answers on. my BRB has been full on in shed for about 7 days. she ate on the 16th of jan. 3 rat pinkies. and by the way she is about 2.5 feet long. she is about 2 weeks behind fully shedding. she is now 10 days out from her last meal. her eyes turned about 3 days ago and she is getting really dry in some areas like she is really close to actually shedding. should i wait until she sheds to offer her food again or should i just wait until she sheds? She usually eats 2 rat pinks but upped it to 3 on the 16th anticipating the shed.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[Smilts]

Most tend not to feed during shed and if its close to shedding i would just wait and feed it rite after.

[Kmef07]

ok that sounds like a good plan. it just seems like forever to wait for her to shed it's like she has been in shed forever. almost since i got her she started to darken up. and that was 3 weeks ago

[Chu'Wuti]

Just ensure your humidity is at the proper level and watch for the shed. After she sheds, she will likely be very hungry! ;)

[Aaron_S]

Don't worry about rushing to feed her during shed. Some snakes take it and some don't. She'll be hungry as Chu'Wuti said when she comes out of the shed.

[Kmef07]

ok i haven't tried to feed her but im sure she is hungry she is an awesome eater. my only concern is that this is day 4 since i noticed her eyes change an they have now changed back and like individual scales in some spots and mulitple scales all clustered in other spots have become raised and turned whiteish grey. I have never had her during shed yet and it is just frustrating that it is taking so long. when i had my bp it was right after the eyes turned back normal that it started to be active enough to rub but this snake just stays hidden most of the time. i know it's all normal but it just worries me i guess since this is the first one and i want a complete shed and stuff.

[Aaron_S]

Just wait. Some snakes take longer than others to shed after the eyes go back normal. Just keep a look out for the shed.

[Kmef07]

this is what my brb's skin looks like in places is this normal?
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll51/kmef07/IMG_0221.jpg

some more pics cuz i haven't posted them yet
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll51/kmef07/IMG_0225.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll51/kmef07/IMG_0222.jpg

[Kmef07]

getting ready to shed remember

[Smilts]

Yep looks like it will be soon the dull look is normal though

[Kmef07]

Good news i just looked over and happend to see my baby shedding lol. from what i can tell it came off in two pieces with about an inch left to go it the shed broke but still im happy considering that i've been tweaking the humidity and stuff a lot since i've had her. also first time ive seen her without being in shed and wow all i can say is wow she is beautiful. i will try and get pics later tomorrow after her skin has conditioned. i do think she has skin on one half of her lower jaw though and she is still working on it because it seems to bother her. any ideas how to get that off if she is unsucessful?

[Smilts]

Congrats im glad she shed. I use a damp rag if it is just small bits of retained shed like that.

[dexter 1988]

she ate on the 16th of jan. 3 rat pinkies.



dont speed feed it unheathy in the long run for your brb give her 1 on 1 day a 1 the nexts

[Kmef07]

Wat? really? that is one i've never heard before. I've got to have some other input on that before i try it though. anyone else heard of that? not that i dont believe you it just seems weird to me i guess. snakes as i understood it are gorge feeders where they eat a lot at once and then they digest for a couple days. it is no different that i can think of to feed one big mouse or 3 little pinkies that equal the same weight as the one.

[Chu'Wuti]

It's not all about equal weight/amount of food, Kmef07. There are nutritional differences between rats and mice and between different ages of the same animal, i.e., differences between a pinky and a juvenile, between a juvenile and an adult.

You'll find that most of the experienced breeders and snake-keepers on this forum prefer to feed rats and believe that rats are more nutritious because snakes grow bigger faster on them. However, not everyone agrees. On another forum, I was told that mice are more nutritious, especially older mice, because they have more calcium. It is unclear because the python's dietary requirements have not been studied in detail. I'm personally not sure that growing bigger faster is necessarily a desirable thing, as studies in other animals generally show that animals that grow faster and bigger when young are actually higher in fat and unhealthy. (Take us humans for an example!)

However, I will say that more people I've talked to prefer rats than mice--the numbers of experts/experienced breeders/keepers who prefer rats far outweigh the number who prefer mice in the people I've asked.

At any rate, it is a face that feeding 3 rat pinkies is not the same as feeding one adult mouse. The following link leads to a research article that provides values for protein, energy, and a number of vitamins and minerals in prey animals used as food, including rats and mice:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/WholePreyFinal02May29.pdf

If your snake will eat 50 gm of prey item, why not make that one prey item rather than 3? Pinkies won't provide as much calcium, if memory serves me correctly--check that on the chart in the article, as I could be misremembering. But I don't think I'd switch back to mice, as the larger agreement is in favor of rats.

Hope this all makes sense!

[Chu'Wuti]

Regarding the feeding two days in a row, that one I've heard only once before, when a snake had refused to eat for months. As your snake ate recently, I would feed it a good meal on one day now that it has shed.

One rule of thumb--Mykee's! :) --is to feed about 10% of the body weight of your snake. Another is to feed a prey animal that is about the diameter of the largest girth of the snake; I've been told up to 1.5 times the diameter as well. I prefer Mykee's guideline, myself, as it gives me a better idea of the amount of food the snake needs.

[Smilts]

The 10% of the body weight rule would allow for multiple smaller prey items if necc. I feed once a week.

[Kmef07]

yes i will only use rats i should have worded that better. i believe that they are better for the snake for all the reasons that chu stated. my problem with feeding one bigger item is that my brb is a really slender snake but is kinda long. she can handle 2-3 of the pinkies but if i were to upsize to a bigger rat that equaled the same weight as the 3 pinkies it would be almost too big for her to swallow. i put three pinks right at the entrance to whatever hide she happens to be in and she just takes them one at a time and they are all gone in about 5 mins max. besides (this is just an idea but) is it any easier for my brb to digest them being there are 3 little ones instead of one big one? going on the principle of the more surface area you have the faster you can melt/digest/break down a substance. and you should get the same amount of nutrients from 3 small rats as you would from a bigger one of the same combined weight. that is if the porportions all add up.

[Chu'Wuti]

you should get the same amount of nutrients from 3 small rats as you would from a bigger one of the same combined weight. that is if the porportions all add up.

Let me explain this a little differently. The point is that the proportions do NOT add up in that 3 pinkies totalling, say, 50 gm, do NOT have the same levels of nutrients as one older rat weighing 50 gm. This is because pinkies do not have the same proportions of various nutrients as adult prey animals.

Let me give you an example.

If you look at Table 3 in the doc I posted a link to, you'll see that a neonatal rat of under 10 gm is 1.85 percent calcium (Ca), while a rat of over 50 gm is 2.62 percent calcium. Translated into grams, three neonatal rats (pinkies) offer 0.555 gm of calcium, while one 50 gram rat offers 1.31 grams of calcium. (Someone please correct me if my calculations are wrong)

Similarly, a pinkie contains far more copper (Cu), iron (Fe), and zinc (Zn) than a more grown rat.

If you feed your snake three pinkies, it's very possible that he won't get enough calcium to maintain strong bones. It's also possible that he'll get too much of the trace elements (Cu, Fe, Zn, Mn), which can be toxic in amounts beyond the snake's nutritional requirements. We don't really know exactly what those nutritional requirements are, but we DO know that snakes need plenty of calcium and that they seem to do very well on adult rats.

In addition, the rat pinkies contain very little sulfur because they have no fur, while the more grown rat has fur & hence sulfur. Again, we don't know exactly what a snake's dietary requirements are, but it probably needs some sulfur in its diet.

The bottom line is that 3 pinkies do not equal one larger rat of the same total weight nutritionally.

[Kmef07]

ok well you defiantly made a believer out of me on that one. thanks chu.
so next problem how do i feed my snake the proper amount without feeding it a rat that is too big for it?

[jimbousmc]

if her eyes are glazed she isnt far out from finisheing her shed, and it can be very hard for them to see when their eyes are glazed it will not hurt her to wait a couple days to feed her again though it wouldnt hurt to try and feed her either its pretty much goes with your comfort if you want to try and feed her go for it it will not hurt her at all either way. i hope i have been some help

[Chu'Wuti]

I apologize for not answering your question about how to upsize. One way is to upsize gradually--you've been feeding pinkies, so go to the next size up & try to feed two of them. That way she'll get used to taking a somewhat bigger prey item without feeling overwhelmed.

Now, as you've been feeding pinkies, you may find that she's a little shocked the first time she hits the next size up and jerks away--it'll have fur, and she's not used to fur. Her reaction may be, "Yuk! What's that! It doesn't taste right!" as she spits it out, so to speak! ;) However, give her a little time--a lot of times they'll strike again, maybe reject again, then strike again and take the prey. She may only take one instead of two, but that's OK; she isn't going to starve. The next week you just try again with two.

After you have been feeding her the next size up for a few weeks, you can move up again.

Good luck!

[Kmef07]

thanks chu she will be finishing the rat pinks i have next week and then i will begin to upsize. i found a little regerg in her tank last night and im a little worried about that. it kind of looked like a shrimp, but was like snot. it was nasty but not a lot about half a dime size. so i increased the temp in the tank today. she was really active the last couple of nights and isn't really radiating towards the heat sources so i don't know what her deal is. but tonight is feeding night so i'll see how she takes her meal.

anyone have any ideas about the regerg?

[Chu'Wuti]

I think you got some pretty good answers re the regurg on the other thread.

One suggestion about upsizing--keep at least one of the rat pinks, maybe more, to thaw with the next size up, as it'll help increase the scent on the furry guys. Offer the furry one first. If she absolutely refuses to take a furry one, you could offer the pink, but I'm betting she'll take a furry one after a bit of reaction; then follow up with the pink.

Hope your girl is not sick. Hang in there.