Substrate

[Ringo]

i'm having a problem deciding what substrate to use for my two ball pythons...i would like to use the same substrate for my king snake as well...i would like to use the reptisand but i think it would be to dry...is there anything out there that is comparable? Or would the reptisand be ok....it is the look i want with the ease of cleaning..please let me know...i'm sure you will...thank you..

[Smilts]

I dont care for reptisand. It looks nice at first but its not as easy as it sounds. I like coconut bark or reptibark, both seem to help hold humidity.

[mykee]

I prefer paper towel or unprinted newspaper stock. May not look pretty but provides the best substrate for maintaining husbandry.

[Silverbinder]

A man after my own tastes, news paper or butcher paper makes a cheap wonderful cage substrata. Cheap, non-toxic, no chance of impaction, and easy to use. If you don't like the daily news in you cage, try going to an art or grocery supply store and buying white butcher paper, brown wrapping paper or unprinted newsprint paper. I don't like that they hide under to paper so I use two sided tape to hold it down. It becomes a little harder to clean up but you live with it.

I don't recommend this for burrowing species. Give them a better substrata. Here begins the controversy! I am not going to tout one produce over another but I lean toward the easy and cheap. Coco fiber - the current prima dona of the substrata crowd is expensive and has been know to cauese impactions and ocular problems in some reptiles. Vermiculite has pro and oponents as well. I prefer vervicullite because I can control the humidity of the cage with it. Misting will remove the dust problem. Alfalfa is a good choice because it is edible if swallowed. But mold can be a problem and worse a powder mildew sometimes develops in moist climates. Tipsoil can be used if screened but it is messy save for the burrowers or naturalistic setings. Bark mulch - cheap but another dangerous produce. Not only from the posibility of impactions but from the danger to the eyes. Soft wood bark(pine, cedar, and redwood) mulch tend to give off toxic chemicals that can affect the liver. Lots of dust associated with the material. Sand and pea gravel can cause impactions but are cheap, easily obtained, and can be washed and reused. They are heavy and increase the weight of the cage a great deal.

I am almost to the point of following the zoos and using a foam material that is shaped, then placed into the cage complete with hides and holes for potted plants and water bowls. It can be painted and made to look like rock or soil.

Good luck and know there is no wrong answer merely choices. You must decied what is best for you! Weigh the factors, experiment a little then make the jump! If you don't like it change it!

Good herping!:yes:

[Aaron_S]

I am going through some experimenting with substrates myself. I have used in the past newspaper, paper towel, reptile carpeting and mulch. I currently am using aspen shavings and going to try the unprinted newspaper stock when this stuff runs out.

So far, the paper towel is winning for smaller animals and aspen for larger ones.

[Chu'Wuti]

I've used both sand and aspen shavings, and the aspen shavings win hands down for those two. I've also used potting soil in a natural vivarium, and that has worked very well, but it can be tricky with balls.

[siz]

I use coconut husk and reptibark and both work very well for me. Personally coconut husk is my favourite if you are going for a more natural look. Easy to clean etc. I don't like reptisand at all, as Coy said it does like nice at first but gets clumpy and filthy rather quickly.

[Ringo]

well you all have me thinking...i guess i'm just going to try them all over a period of time..see what works the best...i would go to a little more trouble for cleaning etc..if i don't have to look at news print or paper towels..

[Aaron_S]

If there's anything you should avoid it should be the sand. Ball pythons aren't meant to be on sand. You can avoid sand with all snakes, even sand boas.

[Smilts]

Other than just getting clumpy and being a pain to clean with alot of snakes reptisand will be a irritant to there skin.

[siz]

The calcium sand also doesn't have a very nice smell to it but that's not exactly an important factor.

I have a question about reptibark - I've been worried (when it comes to keeping the humidity up with my BP) about mold etc. Obviously BPs don't need very high humidity for the most part, and I don't drench her, but is this something I should consider? I have just heard that it kind of absorbs the water.

edit: I use Forest Floor.

[Smilts]

Well Ive only used the repti bark with my corn snakes but I love it.

[Ringo]

i just got done doing away with my bark in my iguana cage...that stuff is a pain..it only keeps the moisture for about 3 days..after that it seems you have to water it ALOT daily to keep up humidity...another reason i'm looking for a different substrate..it might work well with your ball...but its not very cleanable...more times than not your buying new and throwing the old away....more $$$...

never a problem with mold though...

[siz]

i just got done doing away with my bark in my iguana cage...that stuff is a pain..it only keeps the moisture for about 3 days..after that it seems you have to water it ALOT daily to keep up humidity...another reason i'm looking for a different substrate..it might work well with your ball...but its not very cleanable...more times than not your buying new and throwing the old away....more $$$...

never a problem with mold though...

Ok, thanks. Igs need a whole lot more humidity than BPs so you answered my question perfectly. What do you use for your ig now?

[phil_7870]

i use aspen or beech depends on what is there at the time beech looks nicer but aspen holds heat well

[Ringo]

right now i have newspaper and spraying alot...it's temporary until i decide what i'm going to try next...i was spraying alot anyway...i think it's going to be soil and do the live plants and all...see how well that does...so far EVERYTHING is a pain...so why not try something pretty?

[siz]

Yeah and that would help keep the humidity up, one problem being though that iguanas get biiig and few plants that you could stick an a viv would hold them, they break everything you throw at them, haha. And sometimes they get the munchies.

[Ringo]

i'm going to have alot of climbing limbs and things...if he/she wants to eat them..oh well...i'll plant more...i'll make sure there won't hurt him/her of course...i'm building it into a closet i have in my reptile room..

[SerpentLust]

I have gone through MANY substrates and my final decision for my animals is paper towel for quarantine and babies, then Aspen for everyone else. I find aspen attractive, great for burrowing, easy to clean and just a great all purpose substrate :)

[Wolfus_305]

Sounds like it's going to be a great place to live!
I would use whatever looks the best and is easiest to clean, that way it will stay looking nicer for longer.
Best wishes
Kenny

[siz]

i'm building it into a closet i have in my reptile room..

Oh, that's cool :) My boyfriend and I have been considering hooking up a closet for ours as well.
I was talking to someone on a different forum who has two sets of potted plants that she sticks in her ig enclosure; when the iguana destroys the first set, she switches them and lets the plants that have been wrecked grow back.

[michellegrace88]

Sand is tempting, as it seems natural & attractive, however, it does always run the risk of causing impaction in snakes.... I often go to the reptile expos, and I own a baby boa myself, and Aspen seems to be the substrate of choice! it's great for thermoregulation and burrowing and is easy to clean. I personally give it an A+. hehe... :crazy:

[SerpentLust]

Sand is tempting, as it seems natural & attractive, however, it does always run the risk of causing impaction in snakes.... I often go to the reptile expos, and I own a baby boa myself, and Aspen seems to be the substrate of choice! it's great for thermoregulation and burrowing and is easy to clean. I personally give it an A+. hehe... :crazy:

Sand can also be quite abrasive on snake eyes, remember they don't have eyelids...

[skysthelimit]

I have my two king snakes on douglas fir bark (the one r-zilla makes). I think it looks great, which is something you mentioned you wanted. I find it easy to scoop out the mess, unless something really digs deep down. But not bad at all. Hope that helps.

[coastalNY]

id go with aspen mulch in order to be comparable with your snakes. as for the repti sand goes id say forget it, just looks boring to me but if u really like the look of the sand make sure its calci sand. anything else can cause respirtory problems.

[Will0W783]

As Aaron said, DON'T use sand for snakes. It can get up in between their scutes and cause irritation and even infection. I use cage liner (basically treated carpeting) for my ball python and it works great. I used to use repti-bark but I found he was scuffing his scutes on it and got himself all dirty and cracked, so I quickly removed it and went with carpet. My fiance uses ground walnut shells for his ball python, but I'm not sold on that. It is supposed to be non-impacting, but I don't know. I'd go with coconut husk or a carpet liner for the ball python and aspen for the kingsnake. I know you said you wanted to use the same for both snakes, but realistically they come from two different climates and so the same environment would not work well for both. Kingsnakes are used to much drier climates than ball pythons are, and therefore high humidity will not be good for them, whereas too dry is bad for the ball.

[Chu'Wuti]

i think it's going to be soil and do the live plants and all...see how well that does...so far EVERYTHING is a pain...so why not try something pretty?

I know what you mean!

I've used sand & pea gravel (years ago before I knew better), repti-bark, aspen shavings, and potting soil with plants. I'm far happier with the potting soil & plants than with anything else I've had. However--you have to water carefully so that the surface of the soil doesn't just pool water. An excellent book on the subject of natural vivaria is Philippe de Vosjoli's "The Art of Keeping Snakes." It was my guide when I set up my current vivarium for our BP.

When you clean out feces--which you should do, stir the soil surface up, then water. It will help the water go into the soil rather than simply pooling on top, because the BP will pack it down at night. Some plants will hold up better than others--the BP will climb/crawl over them and perhaps even dig them up.

Epipremnum aureum (known as Pothos in the states) is a great plant for this vivarium, as it just pops back up after the BP has crawled over it, and once it establishes some roots, it will start growing. You'll probably have to pinch it back every once in awhile.

I also have Zamioculcas zamiifolia (aka ZZ plant), which is doing well. Two somewhat recent introductions--about a month ago--are Sedum spurium (Dragon's blood sedum), which seems to be doing well, and Mondo grass (Ophiopogon japonicus), which is gradually taking root. Another good plant is Sansevieria (aka mother-in-law's tongue or snake plant) , but you'll need one of the short varieties, or it will grow too tall. That's actually true of ZZ plant, too--eventually it may get too tall. However, the branches are willing to bend over curvaceously, so they might work anyway--I'm waiting to see what happens on those.

The main thing about watering carefully is that you don't want your BP to have to lie in a pool of water. Watering should maintain the plants and the humidity (once a week covers both quite well for me) but not leave the entire viv so soaked that your BP can't get dry, or you're risking belly rot.

The ease of maintaining the humidity with a natural viv is the best part about it--my BP has shed perfectly every time, and we're going on a year in the natural viv as of July. In fact, he's in a shed cycle right now, so in a few days, I'll have another shed.

Downside--you can rarely collect the shed skin, as the BP will dig in the soil to get the shed started and it will most likely end up covered with dirt. Also, at one point I did get some little beetles--we all thought they were mites at first! Horrors! However, my zoologist DIL identified them as beetles. So we put the BP into a 20 gal tank for a few days while we treated the viv with dry ice to get rid of the unwanted critters.

If you decide to create a natural vivarium for your BPs, you will have a beautiful setting for your snake!

[Kmef07]

Hey sandy, When your plants get to the heigth you want them just start trimming off the new growth whenever you see it forming. that will allow your plant to live and also keep it small enough. also you can cauderize it with fire and that will slow down any new growth for a while and keep the plant healthy. i do that for a tree i keep in my room. any bigger and i have to get rid of it so i cut off new growth branches and then i scorch it with a torch. i dont think it would be very easy on ivy but most ground cover i know of you can just pull it up and you won't have a problem because it will just come back. hope this is somewhat helpful.

[Chu'Wuti]

Thanks, Kyle--I had never thought of searing the cut place that way. I have a bottle of pruning seal to put on the cuts, but your technique sounds a lot cheaper!

I just pinch some of them back, such as the Epipremnum (pothos), without doing anything else.

However, like you, I also have a tree--a Polyscias fruticosa--that I will be removing a couple of branches from soon, and my son wants me to root them so he can have one of these, too, because he really loves the lacy leaves. So I will try searing the cuts with fire . . . oh, boy, I get to play with FIRE!!

I could also top the ZZ in the BP's tank, but I think it will look kind of strange. That's why I'm waiting to see what happens with it and whether I like it if I have to top it.