is a UV light necessary?

[Pliskin]

Just got my ball python in his new tank.could someone answer a couple of questions for me ,

- is it necessary to have a UV light ? I know some reptiles require this , but I'm not sure about snakes.( well, i've done a bit more reading and found out that ball pythons are nocturnal and thus don't require UV light)
- how many hours of daylight is recommended ?
- recommended temps for the tank?
- what kind of substrate are you guys using? I'm using some repti bark I had left over from when I had a lizard. The only thing I've heard of being bad for snakes is red cedar, anything else I should avoid?
here's the stuff I'm using , what do you guys think ,is this suitable for snakes?

Zoo Med Repti Bark - Bark - Substrate - PetSmart (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752663)

[Chu'Wuti]

BPs do not need a UV light--that's for diurnal (daytime) animals that bask in the sun. BPs are nocturnal.

Avoid pine, cedar--the evergreen tree-type shavings/woods--they contain & outgas toxic phenols. Reptibark appears to be fir--maybe it isn't as toxic? I'm not sure of that, and firs are definitely related to pine & cedar, so I personally would feel better being cautious.

I've read that the best wood shaving bedding to use is aspen, and I've used that for several years with no problem, so you might want to get that reptibark out of there & use aspen. It doesn't contain the phenolic compounds that are toxic. I've also read in Kevin McCurley's book, The Complete Ball Python, that cypress mulch is OK.

Re temps--80 to 85 degrees F during the day is good; 78 to 80 degrees F at night is fine. Also have a basking area of 88 to 95 degrees at one end of the enclosure. 95 would be the top temp--keeping it around 90 seems to be best. Use a thermostat for heat control if at all possible--you don't want your snake to cook or to freeze to death.

Humidity is also very important. It should be about 60-70% in the enclosure. Too dry and the snake won't be able to shed properly. Too wet constantly and you could end up with a sick snake, especially if too wet combines with too cold. I maintain around 60 to 70% with damp sphagnum moss in one of the hides so the snake can choose his comfort level. He generally switches fom one hide to another at some point during the day (24 hour cycle), so I figure he's regulating himself re humidity that way and perhaps also on temps, as one of the hids is over the under-tank heat pad where I maintain an even 80 degrees, while the other hide is in the warm end of the enclosure.

You'll find most people maintain a cool end, warm middle, "hot" end--but don't go over 95 degrees even at the hot end, and a little cooler is better. At my hot end, I have a ceramic heat lamp, and I've noticed my BP will get up on the branch under it to bask occasionally when he wants to warm up.

Have fun!

[mykee]

I'm glad Chu gave you all the info you needed, because my response can now be this:
Why the hell didn't you do any of this rather important research PRIOR to owning your ball python, rather than posting on a forum to find out after the fact. It seems that with people are far less responsible adn mature when it comes to reptile owndership than any other type of pet. I also recommend you purchase a book on the captive husbandry of ball pythons so that you don't kill your animal because you couldn't get an answer fast enough on some forum. Time to get off your tuchus and start doing some research for yourself.

[Pliskin]

thanks Chu'Wuti.

[Chu'Wuti]

Mykee--ROFL!!

[Aaron_S]

He's entirely right though Chu.

Why do we need to answer all the basic questions for new owners? It's great to come and ask questions but to me it's kind of lazy for someone to come to a forum and request us to do ALL the work for them.

It might not have been so bad if his first sentence was "So I plan to buy a ball python shortly but I'm unsure of a few things. Can any of you answer these questions?"

[Chu'Wuti]

I know. But you know that for many (I'll agree, too many) people, hindsight is 20/20.

We can wish, though . . .

[Pliskin]

every time I go into a new forum, seems like there's always some resident know it all that can't just answer a question or stay the hell out of the thread.

Just because I asked what may be rather newbish questions , doesn't mean I'm not actually already looking for the answer elsewhere . I am familiar with google.

If I have a question I'll post it on a forum, sometimes it'll yield an answer faster than googling.

I ask a couple of questions, and you're doing ALL the work for me?. ok, buddy.:rolleyes:



I did ask the guy I bought it from for advice about caring for the snake. but, he just told me the basics and said I could call him for advice if needed. but I didn't think it was needed yet . and it doesn't hurt to hear other peoples views, so I asked for other opinions.

also, just because someone asks a question , don't mean you gotta respond to the thread.

[Aaron_S]

Substrate, temps as well as lighting are all pretty basic questions that apparantly you've already had answered. I'm sorry but these are questions that you should have gotten answered before you bought the animal.

Posting on a forum is faster than google? This is from google that I just did.

Results 1 - 10 of about 171,000 English pages for ball python care sheet. (0.22 seconds)

Pretty sure that noone can make a response to a forum post as quickly as that.

I made a generalized statement in regards to "ALL the work". I wasn't being specific to you. Plenty of times on forums people come asking all the questions that can be found in a care sheet. Maybe if you word things like "I keep reading in different care sheets that the substrate should be this. What are your opinions of such and such".

[citysnakes]

although those are basic, newb questions that everyone should somewhat know prior to purchasing any reptile they can all be answered differently depending on who you speak to.

what are we gonna do, respond like this to every new poster who "should" already know all the answers? lets just help the guy out shall we?

Pliskin, email me whenever if have any other questions and ill try to help man.

[Aaron_S]

I would have responded better had he asked before he bought the snake and brought it home.

[Pliskin]

I would have responded better had he asked before he bought the snake and brought it home.

here's some evidence that I did actually ask some questions before bringing home the snake.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/81531-ball-python-first-time-snake-owner.html

did you happen to notice who the last poster was?

"I made a generalized statement in regards to "ALL the work". I wasn't being specific to you. Plenty of times on forums people come asking all the questions that can be found in a care sheet. Maybe if you word things like "I keep reading in different care sheets that the substrate should be this. What are your opinions of such and such"."


so, you just don't like the way I asked the question then? my apologies for not phrasing the question to your liking.

and like I mentioned before , you're not obligated to answer any questions , so don't if you feel its beneath you.




and thanks for the offer citysnakes, I'll keep it in mind.

[Aaron_S]

The questions aren't beneath me.

I prefer not to assume you've done reading or know anything else because if I do and you don't then you'll just have follow up questions. I only like getting as much information as possible.

Yep, I gave polite answers in those. So I obviously am not above particular questions. I applaud you for your questions in that thread.

Julian, I stand by my statement that it's FACT ball pythons should be kept with 90 - 95 degree hot spots. I do agree that an answer regarding substrate can be answered different by who you speak with.

[citysnakes]

Julian, I stand by my statement that it's FACT ball pythons should be kept with 90 - 95 degree hot spots.

no its not...

[Chu'Wuti]

Julian, I stand by my statement that it's FACT ball pythons should be kept with 90 - 95 degree hot spots.

no its not...

OK, I'll agree that technically it's not "fact," as facts cannot be other than true and are objectively true, which opinion is not. However, it seems to be fairly well established as appropriate by some apparently knowledgeable snake keepers/breeders, such as Kevin McCurley of NERD. Example: he makes that very temp suggestion (well, 88 to 95 deg F) on pp. 12-13 of his book The Complete Ball Python. McCurley has apparently been very successful in his keeping/breeding with BPs for a long time, so his text is pretty convincing.

So here we seem to have a difference of opinion--based on?? More data are always helpful.

[mykee]

Julian;
"what are we gonna do, respond like this to every new poster who "should" already know all the answers? lets just help the guy out shall we?
"

Not all the answers, ANY of them PRIOR to purchasing the animals.
BTW, 88-95 has been universally accepted as the desired temps for a ball python hot spot. Do you know something that far more respected and experienced breeders do not?

[Aaron_S]

Julian, how about we have an experiment? I'll keep my snakes at the desired temps. You can keep yours with 110 hot spots or at 75. Your choice. We'll see what happens to them in a month? in 3 months? in 6 months?

[citysnakes]

BTW, 88-95 has been universally accepted as the desired temps for a ball python hot spot. Do you know something that far more respected and experienced breeders do not?

Mike, i have not said otherwise and i can agree with you and say that there are many, if not the majority, of ball python keepers out there who feel that an 88-95 degree temperature range is acceptable for a basking area.

i can also say that some may feel that a basking area, or hot spot of no warmer than 90 degrees should ever be exceeded. if you need a reference for that you can check out "Pythons of the World, Volume II" by D. Barker and T. Barker who are two far more respected and experienced breeders than you or I.



Julian, how about we have an experiment? I'll keep my snakes at the desired temps. You can keep yours with 110 hot spots or at 75. Your choice. We'll see what happens to them in a month? in 3 months? in 6 months?

Aaron, do i even need to adress this unscientific, extremely ignorant and not to mention completely sad, sorry excuse of an experiment? now why the heck would i even consider such an idiotic thing? this will prove nothing and we can already somewhat predict a few possible outcomes of each senario. sorry to be so blunt but c'mon man...:rolleyes:

[Aaron_S]

It was sarcastic. In no way would I undergo such an experiment at the chance that your snakes would probably not function as well. Sorry I didn't put a proper smilie to indicate it as such.My honest mistake.

[mykee]

"i can also say that some may feel that a basking area, or hot spot of no warmer than 90 degrees should ever be exceeded."

Adrian, it's been a while since I've been in school, but 88 is still less than 90, right?

[citysnakes]

Adrian, it's been a while since I've been in school, but 88 is still less than 90, right?

to my surprise you are correct! but if you are referring to the statement that 88-95 is generally accepted amongst keepers and relating it to the fact that i referenced two far more respected and experienced breeders who claim that greater than 90 should not be exceeded, then yes 88,89 are less than 90 but you must have overlooked the fact that 91,92,93,94 and 95 are greater...:( sorry.

[Aaron_S]

My hot spots are usually in the 89 - 91 degree area. I just know it's accepted to up as high as 95. I must retract my statement that it's "FACT" 90 - 95 is the "right" temperature. Due to some information that has come up. Mykee is still right that it's the most widely accepted.

[mykee]

My hatchlings are at 93 and my adults are at 94.

[Aaron_S]

Mine are that low because my borneo short tail resides in the same rack system for now. She prefers a bit lower than ball pythons so it's ample to fit both their needs. Any reason why the difference in yours Mykee?

[citysnakes]

my hatchlings are at 90-91 and my adults are at 88-90.

hey Mike did you get a prize from Aaron for being right??:D

[mykee]

Aaron; lower temps for the babies because they're tiny, I don't want to cook them. At least not until I have some friends over in the summer for a barbeque, babies are so tender, they also taste like chicken...
Julian; I sure did, and BOY! was it worth it!

[Aaron_S]

Julian, why do your temps differ? I'm asking out of pure curiousity.

[citysnakes]

Julian; I sure did, and BOY! was it worth it!

im gonna imagine it was a PG rated gift. for my own sake...



Julian, why do your temps differ? I'm asking out of pure curiousity.

i give my hatchlings a basking temperature pretty similar to my incubation temps. nothing scientific here but i just figure that since they've been cooking for a couple months at 89-91 i dont wanna drastically change what theyve been used to so soon.

with my adults, i observe that they actively thermoregulate with these basking temps and an ambient temp of 80-82, rarely go off feed and seem pretty healthy. also i feel safer knowing that if there is ever a heat wave in the summer and my room jumps up a few degrees then it most likely wont get dangerously hot for them.

whatever, if it works for you, your animals and theyre healthy then its all good!

[Aaron_S]

So you keep babies at 89 - 91. Adults at 80 - 82. What do you keep sub adults at? In the middle or do you keep them as the adults? When do you switch the temps from "baby" to "adult" or "subadult"? I'm curious because I want to know how your snakes grow. I know it wouldn't be scientific but from your experiences do they grow at a different rate than a snake with a higher hot side? Of course you can only give an answer if you've ever kept snakes long enough at a higher temperature.

[Chu'Wuti]

I'm curious

Hah! I'm not the only one asking "Why" more than once! ;-) (Just teasing!)

Learning is good.

[citysnakes]

my room keeps an ambient air temperature of anywhere from 78-84 depending on the time of day and/or time of the year(season). also certain snakes may experience the upper or lower end of the ambient temperature depending on the height that the enclosure is located within the room.

all my snakes including hatchlings to adults, experience these ambient temps.

my hatchlings have a basking area of 90-91 and my adults have a basking area of 88-90 for the reasons above.

hope this makes sense.

[Aaron_S]

It does make sense but you didn't answer the part when I asked if you've ever noticed a growth rate difference when offering a higher hot spot. I'm not trying to argue about hot spots here. I just really want to know.

[Chu'Wuti]

I'm not trying to argue about hot spots here. I just really want to know.

I want to know, too!

[mykee]

Always been a huge debate about the proper basking temps for ball pythons. On the one hand, if your temps are too low, food items will take too long to digest and rot inside the ball python causing issues and possible death.
On the other hand, too high of temps, and eaten food will cook inside the ball python causing possible impaction and death.
88-95 seems to be ideal for none of the above crap to happen. Is this debate finally over?

[Chu'Wuti]

Is this debate finally over?

Well, if it is, I'm sure we'll find something else to debate! We seem to be pretty good at it!

I'm really getting addicted to this website . . .

[mykee]

If you were only here during this sites heyday (2000-2003) your head would have spun.

[gonesnakee]

You guys decide on acceptable BP conditions yet or what? LOL I thought I'd also point out that seeings how mnay BP keepers use rack systems anyway the temps in say the top slots Vs the bottom ones are not all "bang on" anyway & there is temp differences based on location. Reguardless 88-95 F for hotside temps is pretty much universal worldwide despite what the Barkers have published. If one is to error I'd rather have it slightly warm than too cool myself. The snakes can always venture towards the cooler side afterall ;) Seeings how we are citing literature as already suggested PU a basic BP manual & read it. It will include all the info required plus much more. As for the Barker book some Pythons do not fair well at higher temps but 95F for a BP is just fine. Mark
edit - FYI folks AUSSIE PYTHONS RULE!!! Anyway ;) :p

[Aaron_S]

FYI folks AUSSIE PYTHONS RULE!!! Anyway ;) :p


Get me some Aussie Olives and I'll agree ;) Oh yah, how are your blackhead's doing? Those are some prizes I wouldn't mind either.

[Chu'Wuti]

If you were only here during this sites heyday (2000-2003) your head would have spun. Wow. You mean it was even MORE active?? I can't imagine . . . must've been nearly impossible to keep up with everything.

AUSSIE PYTHONS RULE!!! I kinda like the looks of the Diamond Python, and the Womas are pretty . . . But don't a lot of the Aussie pythons tend to be snappy?

[mykee]

"Wow. You mean it was even MORE active?? I can't imagine . . . must've been nearly impossible to keep up with everything"
This site, compared to the other forum I post on (the one that all the members from here left to when this one crapped out) is dead. I've never seen so few posters on a forum that is still active. Guess I've been spoiled...

[siz]

Everyone here seems to post fairly regularily though.

[Aaron_S]

It's because we are the only posters to keep this place alive! There's a lot of "guests" who frequent this site though. I believe it's just the "old" members coming around to check things out.

[Chu'Wuti]

It's because we are the only posters to keep this place alive!

I wonder why. There do seem to be a lot of forums out there, but so far I've found only two I really like & feel are credible, and the other one had its own problems . . .

[Aaron_S]

It seems everyone has a forum on their website now. There weren't so many when this place was "popping".

[Chu'Wuti]

It seems everyone has a forum on their website now.

yeah, sorta . . some of them seem pretty silly. Of course, if someone came into this forum for the first time on this thread earlier, it probably would have seemed kinda silly . . .

I really like this forum. I've learned a lot here, thanks to all of you!