plywood

[phil_7870]

what is the best kind of plywood to be used in building a cage for a dumeril boa ???

[PDXErik]

Melamine or something with a waterproof coating on it.

I don't know about sizes, but you definitely want something more than paint in between your snake's poop and the raw wood besides paint.

[LadyParvati]

Be really, really careful about plywood--a lot of it is made with pine (unless you buy a more expensive birch plywood or something). Moreover, it also contains phenol formaldehyde resin. To make plywood, thin layers of the wood are bonded together with the resin. The phenols in pine and some other evergreen woods are toxic to snakes, and the phenol formaldehyde resin is also toxic. The outgassing of the phenols could be fatal for the snake.

When Erik says to use melamine, he's steering you away from the toxic woods as well as noting the need for waterproofing.

Sandy

[PDXErik]

Be really, really careful about plywood--a lot of it is made with pine (unless you buy a more expensive birch plywood or something). Moreover, it also contains phenol formaldehyde resin. To make plywood, thin layers of the wood are bonded together with the resin. The phenols in pine and some other evergreen woods are toxic to snakes, and the phenol formaldehyde resin is also toxic. The outgassing of the phenols could be fatal for the snake.

When Erik says to use melamine, he's steering you away from the toxic woods as well as noting the need for waterproofing.

Sandy

Hehe, thanks, but all I was thinking about was the poop factor. Impossible to clean wood properly.

Thanks for the head's up on the poisons.

[citysnakes]

if youre going to use plywood you should use a decent quality brand thats finished on both sides and seal it with a natural wood sealer. youll have to apply a few coats which is time consuming but when youre finished youll have a great looking enclosure.

[mykee]

IF you're hellbent on using plywood, you should seal it with many coats of marine sealant and allow it to off-gas for weeks. Normal old melamine WILL warp and prove completely useless in no time at all.

[kriminaal]

Not to complicate things further but, make sure the marine sealant or epoxy is aquarium safe. Much of the marine products used for boats have dangerous levels of VOC's.
Combine that with a small enclosure and eventual nervous system and brain damage can occur.

[PDXErik]

My wood enclosure is pressboard with vinyl floor tiles. It's heavy as hell, but it holds up to everything.

[LadyParvati]

make sure the marine sealant or epoxy is aquarium safe. Much of the marine products used for boats have dangerous levels of VOC's.
Combine that with a small enclosure and eventual nervous system and brain damage can occur.

Epoxy is not safe--it continues to outgas for a long, long time, and it also contains bisphenol A (aka BPA; that's the stuff that some plastics manufacturers have been using for nice clear baby bottles & drink bottles (e.g., Nalgene) and that Canada has banned in baby bottles. BPA can cause cancer and infertility.

Some marine varnishes--e.g., spar varnish--may be OK, but as Kriminaal stated, check carefully first. You don't want to put your beloved snake in something that will kill it!

Sandy

[phil_7870]

what about that water based poly varnish will that do to seal it

[kriminaal]

You'll be fine with 3 or so coats of the poly.

There are epoxies that are safe. I use them. Be sure to do good research on what's available in your area. Just because something says "water-based" or "marine" means absolutely nothing.
Check out an MSDS list online to find out all the ingredients.
I talked directly with the manufacturer of the product I use to ensure that.
The benefit of using epoxy is being able to apply a single coat, compared to 3 or four needed for some polys.
The product I use can even be applied indoors with no virtually no odour.

[LadyParvati]

There are epoxies that are safe. I use them.

Yes, I've just in the past few days heard that there are some safe ones for vivarium use. They are different from the ones used for industrial purposes.

It would be helpful if you'd give us the name of the one you use.

Whether you can smell something or not, toxic compounds can be outgassing as the epoxy cures. 1) Humans can't smell nearly as well as most other animals, snakes/reps included. 2) Not all toxic compounds have a detectable odor. Case in point: the natural gas piped into many homes for cooking & heating is odorless, so the gas companies add mercaptan, which smells like rotten eggs, to the gas so you can tell when there's a leak. So you should still apply epoxies, varnishes, etc. in a well-ventilated environment so that you don't poison yourself.

[kriminaal]

I'm not sure where it's all available. The one I use is called G-1 by Industrial Formulators. Note that they have a G-2 product as well that is NOT SAFE.
When I contacted them they said to cure it above 25 deg for a week. So I put a few heat lamps in to cure it.
This product is also used in aquariums.

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that no smell means a safe product.

[phil_7870]

well it going to be 4ft by3 ft by 2 ft and im planning on paint it black first and then putting poly varnish on it wat do you's think will it work aslo the ply is called shutter ply

[kriminaal]

Never heard of shutter ply. Note that the cheaper you go on the plywood, the more poly you'll need to put on.
Why bother painting over the black with poly?(not sure if it would react or not)

There is a line of childrens paint by Rustoleum called Painter's Touch. It is safe for enclosures. If you siliconed all the corners the paint would be enough to seal it.

[phil_7870]

what about some kinds of stains are there any that can be used or somthing to keep th wood effect

[Wolfus_305]

I'm not sure if this is safe for snakes...I tried looking online but I couldn't find anything.
I know that sometimes to preserve the look of the wood people will coat it with mineral oil. It keeps the look of the wood but makes it more soft and seals it to a certain degree. I think you need to do a thin coat then rub it into the wood with a cloth. Then do the same thing with another coat.

[kriminaal]

Any water-based polyurethane stain would be fine. You'll still need to coat it with a poly-crylic sealer though.

[LadyParvati]

Kriminaal, thanks for the info about the epoxy & paint that are safe. Sometimes it's possible to order those online or get a local retailer to get them for you.

Phil, ask your local retailer whether epoxy can go over the paint you want to use--some things won't stick to each other. Be sure to allow _lots_ of drying time after every coat so that outgassing is complete before the next coat.

Good luck--and have fun!

[phil_7870]

wats that poly cric sealer and why do i have to use it could i not just use polyurethane .if not what way do i use poly cric is it like a varnish and which goes on first poly cric or polyurethane????

[kriminaal]

Here's some info on the polycrylic.
Water-Based Clear Protective Finishes - Minwax.com (http://www.minwax.com/products/water_based_clear_protective_finishes/)

[phil_7870]

i was planing on painting it with a black undercoat and then varish over it with polyurethane would this be safe ? would i be better of using polycrylic instead ? what would u do in my position ?

[kriminaal]

From what I've read about polycrylic it is a safer, better product.
Be sure when you purchase the black undercoat you ask if it is compatible with the topcoat. Often they will react if they are not.

[phil_7870]

would it be saf to paint and varnish the inside of the tank

[phil_7870]

the paint is alkyd resin based .is this oil or water based .can this be used with poly varnish

[kriminaal]

Ha, I thought we were talking about the inside.lol
Alkd is oil-based. Definitely don't use it inside the tank. Also it is not compatible with any water-based products.

[phil_7870]

what kind of paint will i use for the inside then or would i be better off not painting the inside ??

[kriminaal]

I wouldn't bother painting the inside. Just coat it with 3 or 4 coats of polycrylic.
For the outside you don't need to use a water-based product if you don't want to.

[phil_7870]

so paint the outside black and poly the inside and i'll be ok . i have a few liters of polyurethane lying around my house not being used could i use thet instead of polycrilec for the inside ???

[kriminaal]

Just make sure the polyurethane for the inside is water-based.
Put some heat lamps inside to cure it for a week, temp should be above 25 deg celcius.

[phil_7870]

yeah the polurethane is water based .how many coat should i put on

[kriminaal]

You don't require high humidity. Three would be fine. Get a little extra gooped in the corners.

[phil_7870]

any idea on what kind of a heat light to use .would a red light do

[kriminaal]

You mean for curing? Anything would work that gets the temp up. Probably 100 watt.

[Silverbinder]

I use plywood for cages all the time. Use a quality AB or AC grade ply for exterior use. To seal the cage initially, I use a tung oil product. Then I follow with a natural tinted paint or a stain. Top coat is clear polyurethane for two to three coats. Nothing will get into the wood then. The cages must be aired out. One other detail is to caulk all seams and cracks with an aquarium grade silicon. This removes place for mites and chiggers to hide.

You can check wiith Things to Use (http://www.greenexhibits.org/build/alt_4.shtml) for a more complete discussion of paint and sealer types. Be aware that even child safe products have some toxic chemicals.

There are some fiberglass sheeting materials that come in 4 x 8 sheets that can be attached to the wood with simple fasterners and/or glue which would work well. Nice easy to clean white surface. You see this in public bath rooms used a splash backs.

Good luck - again there are no wrong choices - just choices that work for you!!!