Feeding Tongs & Snake Hooks for a BP?

[LadyParvati]

I was recently told I should be using feeding tongs for offering FT prey to my BP and that I need to "hook train" him. I've been holding the rat by the tail to offer the prey with no problems, but my friend, who does have a much larger number of snakes than I, assures me I will get bit if I continue to do this. He also says that when my BP is bigger, the snake hook will be essential.

So I have two questions:

1) Do I really need these tools?

2) If I do,
a) what kind of feeding tongs (plastic or metal, size, even brand name would be welcome) and
b) what kind of snake hook (same info as above requested)?

Thanks!

[PDXErik]

I was grabbed one time by my (then) 8' BCI red tail boa.

It's not a 4 or 5' BP, but it's still stressful for all involved. I'm certain I took some of her teeth with me when I coaxed her off. Much better to have not gotten lazy and used the stupid tongs.

As for hook training a BP, I don't know. My BCI certainly knows what a hook is, though.

[C#@$e]

i think its better to use the tongs to avoid any confustion. Sence your feeding him with your hand you mait get tagged by confustion because you feed him with your hand and he/ she can smell it and when you put your hand in there he/she mait be like "FOOD" and tag you by accident. Also when you take your BP out by hand he mait get into feeding mode and thats why you should try to hook train him. got that lol

[Aaron_S]

Chase, I believe it's spelt 'might' and not 'mait'.

To answer the question regarding hook training, my adult ball python isn't hooked trained. I got him as an adult and I just haven't bothered. He's good for now though and hook training snakes from the beginning would make it easier for handling purposes. I'm currently in the process of hook training my baby borneo short tail python though.

It's already been stated, that hemostats, are a very useful tool for when feeding ANY size snake.

[gonesnakee]

Tongs are recommended for feeding ANY snake. It is the PROPER way to feed them. It is far safer for both you & your snake (no busting off of its teeth in your knuckles) & is more sainitary as well (unless you really like handling dead animals). As for a hook for a BP unless it is not your average BP I would not worry about it at all. "Hook Training" is for REAL pythons :p ;) LOL Mark
P.S. tongs don't have to be all fancy either, you can likely grab something in the cooking untensil section of a dollar store that will suffice. I'm a fan of the big tweezers myself, I hate hemostats or whatever they are called
Edit - if you really want a hook more often than not I just use long paint roller handles they work just fine except for larger heavier snakes. As for BPs & most Colubrids they work great & are cheaper than real hooks. Buy one meant for a screw in handle & make it any length you choose.

[Aaron_S]

I prefer hemostats Mark. Tongs, when dealing with large rats, you need to have a mean grip on that tail! With the hemostats I can just lock them up!

[gonesnakee]

I'd actually suggest not picking them up by the tails but rather the back leg. Otherwise the rats gone & the tail stays in the hemostats. I have had many ails pull off by picking them up that way in the past. Tongs that one would use say for baked potatoes work good for big rats. Nothing beats a good pair made for the job though when dealing with larger prey items. Midwest is a good brand name for such, Mark

[Aaron_S]

I've had some of the tail come off before too. I've used the back legs before but I never really did it all the time. Thanks for the tip!

[gonesnakee]

Ya I hate being left with only the tail as the rat drops onto my foot LOL Mark

[C#@$e]

Hey, you guys talk about the leg and the tail but what about the very back of the rat or mouse (whate ever lol) because that way you have a good grip on it and im pretty sure your snake isnt going to have the whole rat inside his mouth when he striks. get what im saying?

[Aaron_S]

Grabbing from the back end allows the snake to grab the prey item without potentially grabbing metal. I've had snakes grab the middle of a rat. It also gives a couple more inches between you and the snake:D

[mykee]

Question for all you "tail holders": Which of you have ever seen a live rat do a handstand? Because that's the heat signature that you're presenting to your ball python, not a very natural one on my opinion. I use hemostats at the haunches for the simple reason that the heat signature is much smaller (basically just a head) where the heat signature with a rat hanging by it's tail is it's full body length, straight up. Kind of intimidating and definitely worthy of "spooking" a snake into not eating.

[Aaron_S]

Hmm, maybe that is the cause of some of my snakes being shy. I never looked that in depth into it. Thanks Michael.

I have in the past dragged a prey item on the ground of the enclosure in front of the snake. I suppose though that it still has a large heat signature.

[LadyParvati]

Wow. I'm so glad I asked--what a lot of information! I was told to hold the prey by the scruff of the neck for presentation to the snake, but I worried about the same problem Aaron mentions of the snake grabbing metal. I was afraid it might get injured & then refuse to eat.

The tail-holding discussion is interesting, too. I've been holding the prey by the tail (no, I don't particularly _enjoy_ handling dead rats, but I do wash my hands VERY thoroughly afterwards!) and doing the dangle thing. Our BP almost always grabs the head though occasionally the shoulder. He doesn't seem to care that the rat is dangling.

The advantage I can see of my fingers is that when the snake grabs & wraps, I let go, and no tails are lost. It sounds like I can have the same advantage with tweezers or tongs, but not hemostats, but hemostats give a better grip, which I foresee becoming a "bigger" problem as the size of the prey animal I'm using gets bigger. Hmmm . . . lots to think about.

Thanks so much, all of you! :)

[PDXErik]

Chuck Norris feeds his spitting cobras with his teeth.

[citysnakes]

hey mykee, not that i disagree with you but if a ball python has been conditioned to eat handstanding rats since it was a hatchling then it wouldnt know any different and probably wouldnt really matter. when i first got into ball pythons i was a "tail holder" like most newBs but my snakes still managed to strike the head of the rat just as well as they do now when i feed with tongs. im not sayin to not use tongs or hemostats because they are great and presenting the prey with them may prevent spooking shy eaters but i think that ball pythons have better aim than we give them credit for and probably use their vision to aim and other senses much more than we think.

[Aaron_S]

Chuck Norris feeds his spitting cobras with his teeth.


That's nice. Now let the grown ups continue their adult conversation.

[LadyParvati]

One thing I do that may be the reason I've never had a problem--after heating the entire rat, I focus heat on the head & make the head the most obvious heat signature. My BP always goes for the head, so I guess I'm doing something right.

It's funny to be called a newB--we've had snakes for at least 20 years. It's just that I've only fed F/T for 2.5 years, and the previous snake was a milk snake for which we just laid out the prey on a board & he took them at his leisure--didn't even seem to matter if they had gotten cold. This jiggling F/T prey for a picky eater is definitely new,
and of course the BP is new (6 months now). So I'm a newB with BPs & glad you're all here to help!

[citysnakes]

lady, i meant like most newBs im general and was not referring to you in anyway.;)

[mykee]

Julian, it's not about a ball pythons aim, it's about presenting the food item in a manner that doesn't spook it. You'll not notice this with owning one or two or maybe not even ten ball pythons but the reason ball pythons don't attach themselves to your arm every time you open the cage to handle or clean your ball is because the heat signature from your arm is too large for that snake to consider it a food source. By presenting a rat height-wise, you're creating the largest heat signature possible for the snake, and that can scare the snake into a retreat or defensive attack rather than an offensive attack and coil.

[LadyParvati]

Hey, Julian, I didn't take offense! I was laughing at myself--even though we've had lots of other types of snakes, we've never had a python, so I _am_ a newbie in the sense of BP ownership and feeding F/T prey to a BP. I definitely know that each species has its own personality, food needs, etc., and I'm still learning about BPs--that's why I'm here asking questions!

Now to Mykee's last post--Ahhh, now that's interesting and potentially very useful information. So the head of the rat being significantly hotter than the rest of the rat and my arm doesn't make any difference? Or maybe it does, but as the rat cools, the heat signature of the head no longer stands out and blends more with the larger heat signature presented by my arm. I knew that when the head was nice & hot, the snake struck rapidly & always hit the head, but that as the head cooled, the snake was slower to strike. The once or twice when I think the head was pretty cool, the BP was more likely to hit the neck or shoulder of the rat. After observing that, I always heat the head pretty thoroughly so my BP doesn't have a problem figuring out what to strike.

Now, having thought it through in more depth, I see why the "headstanding" rat and arm above could be problematic in more than one way. This certainly reinforces the idea that feeding tongs are good to use!

[citysnakes]

obviously you dont want to spook the snake and the way you present food to it will be determined by each individual snake's temperment, feeding response, etc but the snake will be able to effectively strike and coil a prey item that is being presented in many different postions at many different temperatures and this shows that its more than just the heat signature that a snake will process during feeding attempts. just like in your arm example, there are also many other reasons why the snake will not show a feeding response when you stick your arm in the tub besides the size of your arms heat signature.

[Wolfus_305]

AHAHAH Chuck Norris is my life!
I would say to try the tips above and then make a personal decision because that's what my understanding of the conversation above is. Everything is always based on a personal preference.
Kenny

[PDXErik]

That's nice. Now let the grown ups continue their adult conversation.

:P

My BP (that I don't have anymore as I focused on boas for now) would eat anything anywhere anyhow. Never got spooked, but then even primal snakes have personality differences.

[Aaron_S]

Some people luck out that their ball pythons will be burmese pythons but in tiny forms, at least during feeding time. My first ball python never went off feed. This was about 9 years ago, and he was just a pet store purchase.

[mykee]

"just like in your arm example, there are also many other reasons why the snake will not show a feeding response when you stick your arm in the tub besides the size of your arms heat signature"
Such as...

[gonesnakee]

Maybe fear? OMG its the big hand again. Is it going to grab me? I'd better ball up ya that will save me :rolleyes: LOL Mark
P.S. or common sense? OMG its Mykee!!! LOL

[mykee]

"OMG its Mykee!!! "
Only living creature that has ever drawn back in fear in my presence or attempted to bite me has been my wife.

As for your arm; what the hell is it doing in your snakes bin? 18" hemostats and a 5" rat and even the tips of my finger are nowhere near the bin virtually eliminating any heat signature and any fear/chance of being bit at all.

[C#@$e]

haha your wife

[Aaron_S]

attempted to bite me has been my wife.


We don't need to know your mating rituals :D:p

[mykee]

Pain is kinky.....

[springtech]

You guys are hilarious

[LadyParvati]

One doesn't have to bite hard enough to draw blood . . .

[Aaron_S]

One doesn't have to bite hard enough to draw blood . . .

Which keeps it kinky...

[C#@$e]

omg you guys are crazy " my wifes kinky" thats one thing i dont want to know about.
and is it just me or wwas there alot of people today and yesterday on i mean i looked at it this mourning and there was so many post i jus put it off to look trhough all of them.

[PDXErik]

And I got barked at for being immature :P

[LadyParvati]

Ahh, but we've gotta have some fun in this life, right?!

Sorry, Chase--us "old' folks don't mean to embarrass you with more than you want to know at this point in your life! (not too much, anyway)

So to other things--I got feeding tongs, and of course, this is the time that my BP decides NOT to eat! Two rats & one mouse wasted (tried feeding last Thursday) . . . *sigh* I may try again tonight--with ONE rat so I don't waste so much. It is getting colder. I'm keeping one red light on all night long to maintain the temp in the vivarium, but it sure dries things out more quickly.

Suggestions?

[Aaron_S]

I recently had to place a red light on my ball python cage when the temps dropped overall in my house. I was afraid of a respitory infection, and yes it does dry everything out much quicker, so I just topped the water bowl up daily and misted a bit more.

I also just think Chuck Norris jokes are really boring and old now, and childish :P

[LadyParvati]

Chuck Norris is getting pretty old himself! I can say so, because I'm getting pretty old, too!--but he's older than I.

Anyway, re the lights, guess I'm stuck with them. I think my hygrometer is sticking because the humidity it states doesn't change, yet I can see how dry it's getting. I'd better get a new one.

[mykee]

My only suggestion to combat the drop in temps is to keep your rats (if you breed) in your snake room. I keep all my breeding colonies of rats and all of my snakes in the same giant room, and with the heat off to that room in the winter (and I live in Canada), the heat that the rats generate with thier moving and eating, drinking, etc. is enough to keep my room at 82 degrees all year long.

[C#@$e]

okay see i was only saying that i didnt want to know that your wife is kinky. Now if you were single and you meet this girl (That was not your wife) then i wouldnt care, i just think since your married you should try to keep those things between you and her. And i dont know your wife but do you really think that she would appreciate you tell people on the forum thats she kinky LOL. Because in a way a forum is like a archive you never are really able to get ride of the stuff you put down, and also any one that visits the site now sees that your wife is so caled KINKY LOL.

I TOLD YOU UP DIDNT I.

[LadyParvati]

Right up until just before the last sentence, I was thinking, "Go, Chase!" You were doing quite well---right up until that last sentence. *sigh* :rolleyes:

[Aaron_S]

Chase you failed us...

I don't think Michael really meant his wife was kinky was he mentioned she tried to bite him. I saw it more as a joking bite thing. I turned it sexual, if it matters.

[mykee]

Am I missing something here? Where did I say my wife is kinky?
"I turned it sexual, if it matters"
and THAT'S why I like Aaron so much, yes I said it Aaron is kinky and that makes me tingly in my waistal area. How's that for an archive!

[LadyParvati]

Actually, Mykee, Aaron--_Chase_ is the one who said Mykee's wife is kinky!

I have nooooo clue where he got that idea! :rolleyes:

[Aaron_S]

Oh Mykee...don't get me started ;)

Well Chase is only 14...he still has a lot to learn!

[mykee]

You and me in the parking lot Chase.....

As a sidebar; my wife and I have been together since young Chase was making poopy in his dydies...

[LadyParvati]

Poor Chase! Mykee, don't beat him up TOO much! :)

I do hope you realize we are all teasing, Chase! Don't worry--some day _you_ will be teasing someone younger in a similar way, I'm sure!

"As a sidebar" (to quote Mykee!)--Mykee could be MY son and I could have changed HIS dydies! :crazy:

Ah, the joys of getting older. Well, I do have to get _some_ pleasure out of getting older, you know!

Hugs! Sandy

[Aaron_S]

You know, that put a rather not so pleasant image in my head Sandy...thanks... :P

[mykee]

"Ah, the joys of getting older. Well, I do have to get _some_ pleasure out of getting older, you know"
Like having someone change YOUR dydies for a change.

[LadyParvati]

ooooh. Stabbed right in the heart! :eek:

Well, now. Guess I'll have to say I'm glad I'm not changing _anyone's_ diapers nowadays! and no one has to change mine, either. I'm not quite _that_ old!

Just you wait, you two! :)