Fed the BPs today...harder than I thought

[Slithergirl]

Okay, so I fed Resner and Embolie for the first time since I got them today. I took them out of their habitat and into their feeding tubs (rubbermaids). I wasn't sure if they would eat since it had only been about a week since I brought them home. The person I got them from said to either kill the rat pups first or hold them with tongs by the tail over the edge of the feeding tub so that the snake could get the face. Well, I was going to kill first, but I didn't have the heart. So I went with plan B. And it was noisey and heart renching for me. (I know I am a weeny, it doesn't have to be said) So I know I have to feed my snakes, but there has to be a better way! Any suggestions? I will be better at this when they arn't feeding on cute baby rats and are on to the big ugly brown sewer lookin rats at superpetz...promise!

[Aaron_S]

You could try switching them over to f/t food. This way all you have to do is thaw out their meal and no noise!

[Slithergirl]

Do they eat as well on that? I just know BP's can be finicky eaters. And where do you get food like that? Can you just go into the pet store and ask for frozen rats?

[Aaron_S]

Depends on your pet store. Most supply frozen rodents. If not you can order them in bulk online, which becomes cheaper. I know plenty of people who raise their ball pythons on frozen/thawed food. Try it in a week.

[Slithergirl]

I'll call the local pet stores and pass on the bulk. I don't have a spare freezer and I am not keeping that next to the food I feed my human babies. LOL How long does it take to thaw and do they need to get to room temp or something?

[mbraun3]

depends on the size of the rat how long it takes... if you dont want to wait that long you can put it in a ziplock and get as much air out of the bag as you can and run hot hot water and put the bag with rat in the water... but you want to make sure it is COMPLETELY thawed if not your snake will regurgitate it... make sure the rat isnt cold when you touch it... its better if you get it to room temperature...

[Aaron_S]

or you can throw them in a baggie and leave it in the fridge. Just don't use a microwave....trust me on this. ANyways, get to at least room temp. Probably hotter since they use heat as a way to track their food. You got to make this look like they are live rats, so the snakes will switch over.

[Slithergirl]

So to make it look alive...shake it around with tongs? Or is temp enough?

[Slithergirl]

depends on the size of the rat how long it takes... if you dont want to wait that long you can put it in a ziplock and get as much air out of the bag as you can and run hot hot water and put the bag with rat in the water... but you want to make sure it is COMPLETELY thawed if not your snake will regurgitate it... make sure the rat isnt cold when you touch it... its better if you get it to room temperature...
I HAVE TO TOUCH IT!!!!!!:shocked:

[Aaron_S]

You should. Or possibly a snake isn't the best pet for you.

Temps and wiggling usually work.

[mykee]

I'm going to say that your purchase of two balls pythons (or one for that matter) was not only poorly planned, but ZERO research went into it. I would recommend you try to find a good home for them and buy yourself a hamster.
Good luck.

[Aaron_S]

It seems that a lot of people that are coming here are hoping to get quick answers to their questions on how to care for their pets. A book or some research online goes a long way and we, as experienced keepers, can only help further understand the material you have read. Please do research prior to owning any pet and make sure you can take care of EVERY bit of it's husbandry (including feeding).

[Slithergirl]

I'm going to say that your purchase of two balls pythons (or one for that matter) was not only poorly planned, but ZERO research went into it. I would recommend you try to find a good home for them and buy yourself a hamster.
Good luck.


One, my previous reply was sort of a sarcastic joke... or don't you get that. Two this is the first and only "care" question I have asked and it is because I have never fed dead food. I used to have snakes, it has just been some years ago. Three I did plenty of research on care and habitat. That's why my ball pythons are in a proper sized enclosure unlike alot of people here. So you keep the hamster, I have been there and done that and I'd rather grow a pair and feed it to the snake!

[Slithergirl]

And on a less harsh note, no one is looking for quick answers. But I thought these site were about discussing your animals, bragging through pics, and more seasoned pet owners helping, the key word being "helping" less experienced owners. I can look at all the websites, and I can read all the books. But they arn't usually enough. I am a nurse, and the first thing I usually tell my new interns is "forget most of what you learned in school, and prepare to learn how it's really done." First hand knowlege is nothing like the books.

[Aaron_S]

I was making a point that books WITH knowledge of experienced people works better. If we're to help, we need to ask questions. There are variables in each situation.

Secondly, if you had read so much you'd know that, if you are keeping them together, it's bad husbandry practice to keep multiple snakes in the same enclosure.

[AndyB]

Use chopsticks for feeding, lets you jiggle the food around, keeps your fingers out the way and saves you from having to touch the corpse.

Also, I've found Americans don't get sarcasm in person so its unlikely they are gonna get it when its typed.

[Aaron_S]

Funny thing, we're not Americans.

[Slithergirl]

Everything I read said as long as it is a large enclosure and that each have their own multiple hides it was okay. But yet again...books arn't always the answer...real people with real experience. I thing that with books sometimes that they just right what they (the writer) think other writers and scientist would say. I found this alot after I first got into tortoises. I would read one thing in the book and then talk to all these people who had kept them for years and they would say well....not always or not really. Aaron so far here in this forum you have turned to be one of the best resources of information. Not making me feel like a complete dork for asking some questions. I am sure you didn't get where you are with your knowledge with out asking a few questions along the way. But that other guy needs to take a chill pill and if he or she really is knowledgable, they should share their knowledge, not make nasty remarks.

[Aaron_S]

Mykee does what he does. Thanks for the compliments, although, I'm sure I'm blushing to some degree.

It's not appropriate for a multitude of reasons. Feeding becomes a larger deal. Now you can't feed them in their own enclosure and thus have to take them out. Which can lead to you being bit from a snake who thinks it's feeding time but really you just want to play. They tend to be solitary creatures in the wild, except for breeding. One may get stressed out and stop eating. Also, one may have parasites and you will infect the other one quite easily this way. There are cases of cagemates cannabilizing too. Someone posted the pictures recently of a boa who ate a ball python cagemate.

[aferland66]

Hi Slithergirl, just reading your post, and I have to agree with you. I have done hundreds of hours of research for my breeding projects, and the information that is out there can be very hard to analyze.

There seems to be lots of different ideas from different people. I have learned over the years, that if you follow the rules that everybody agrees on (like heat, water, and food), then the rest is pretty much up to you. Some will tell you to feed every week to get your snake to grow faster ( not good for your snake's health as far as I am concerned), some will say every other week, and some will say every month. Some people will say Ball Pythons do better in small enclosures, some will say bigger is better. Some will say no light is needed, some will argue that they still get some light in the wild, even if they are dawn and dusk feeders. I think if you keep a good eye on your snakes, and they are growing, and feeding well, then you are doing something right.

I am keeping about 75 reptiles of all kinds, including Ball Pythons, Boas, and corns, and some are being kept in large living areas with multiple Pythons (for some juveniles). In my personal experience, it is easier to keep most of the animals separated, simply because I have too many to keep track of with my breeding. In the case of someone who only has 2, I would say it was fine to keep them together, you just have to pay very good attention to how they are doing, and that means sitting and watching the interaction between them when they become active (usually early night). If they don't seem to be having any problems with each other, I wouldn't worry about keeping them together for now. I am saying for now, in my opinion, you will have to separate them when they get older for the following reasons.

1- When your female gets to be ready to breed, I would suggest keeping them separate. Although your female may be just old enough to breed, it is better for her if you give her more time to grow, and gain some size and weight before her first clutch. Producing offspring is hard on the body.

2- When your female is breeding, you don't want her to be bothered by the male all the time, and you will want to give her a rest in between clutches, and sometimes skip a breeding. She will live longer that way. Could you imagine having kids every 10 months or so? ouch;)

Aaron_S does have very valid points about parasites, and different species being kept together. But if those are your only 2 snakes, and you have them examined by a vet, and they are clean, they should not get any other parasites if you keep them properly. Keep an eye out for signs of aggression between them, one of my females will puff and hiss at other Balls when I put them together for baths some times.

When it comes to feeding, some of my snakes still won't take frozen after months of trying it on them. I have found that all my snakes will eat better with freshly killed prey items. I have to say, you should never feed a live prey to your snake... even if you don't take into account the possible bites to your snake, it is a very cruel way to let the prey die. Constrictors kill by squeezing the prey so it can exhale but not inhale, effectively suffocating them. This can take minutes with some larger prey, or if the snake has a bad hold on the prey. I think it's much better to quickly kill the prey, and then feed, I just think it's the more humane way to go. I know it's not easy to do, but some specialized pet shops will actually kill rats or mice for you when you by them, then you just take them home, wiggle a bit, and you have a excellent lunch for your snake.

OK this is getting to be a long response:O_o: so take care, and I hope you are happy with your snakes.

[Slithergirl]

See there is another thing that I have heard both sides of. Most of what I have read said to never feed in there habitat. I have special tubs that I use just for feeding. And they are never fed in the same tub. He has his and she has hers.

As far as interation they really don't seem to mind each other. they will sometimes lie together in the same hide. Although I keep them in a very large habitat. But I guess seperating them when they are sexually mature will have to be done and I knew that because I really don't want to breed. I am a pet keeper, not a breeder, thats for sure. As for the parasites, I am very very fortunate that my best friend is a vet tech working on her degree in vet med, she looks after all of my animals on a weekly basis. And at the first sign of any trouble we take a trip to see the doc she works for.

After reading the last post though, I did call the guy I got them from and asking if he would pre-kill the food for me and he said it would be fine. I just have to drive a few towns over, instead of a few blocks.

Wow, this post jumps all over the place. LOL But here is the last one, someone mentioned that you shouldn't feed once a week, is this true? I thought I read to feed every 5-7days when they are young and then to switch them to every 2 wks when they got older? I just want to be the best snake mommy I can be, so all advice is more than welcome!:D

[Slithergirl]

See there is another thing that I have heard both sides of. Most of what I have read said to never feed in there habitat. I have special tubs that I use just for feeding. And they are never fed in the same tub. He has his and she has hers.

As far as interation they really don't seem to mind each other. they will sometimes lie together in the same hide. Although I keep them in a very large habitat. But I guess seperating them when they are sexually mature will have to be done and I knew that because I really don't want to breed. I am a pet keeper, not a breeder, thats for sure. As for the parasites, I am very very fortunate that my best friend is a vet tech working on her degree in vet med, she looks after all of my animals on a weekly basis. And at the first sign of any trouble we take a trip to see the doc she works for.

After reading the last post though, I did call the guy I got them from and asking if he would pre-kill the food for me and he said it would be fine. I just have to drive a few towns over, instead of a few blocks.

Wow, this post jumps all over the place. LOL But here is the last one, someone mentioned that you shouldn't feed once a week, is this true? I thought I read to feed every 5-7days when they are young and then to switch them to every 2 wks when they got older? I just want to be the best snake mommy I can be, so all advice is more than welcome!:D

[aferland66]

See there is another thing that I have heard both sides of. Most of what I have read said to never feed in there habitat. I have special tubs that I use just for feeding. And they are never fed in the same tub. He has his and she has hers.

Wow, this post jumps all over the place. LOL But here is the last one, someone mentioned that you shouldn't feed once a week, is this true? I thought I read to feed every 5-7days when they are young and then to switch them to every 2 wks when they got older? I just want to be the best snake mommy I can be, so all advice is more than welcome!:D

I personally have no problems feeding them in the enclosure. I just move the rats in front of the hides and they take them immediately. Since the hides are at opposing sides of the enclosures, I don't have problems. You just can't leave the prey in the enclosure and leave, both snakes could go after the same prey, and the bigger could actually swallow the smaller. It would regurgitate it, of course, but it would be dead.(not a good thing):no:

You are right with the 7 days for young snakes, but from the pictures I thought yours where about the size I start feeding every 2 weeks. I may be wrong, pictures are deceiving sometimes. Just make sure you are not gorging them, that reduces the lifespan of the snakes.

[Aaron_S]

We would need to see a size reference of your snakes to make a better judgement on how often you should be feeding them.

Secondly, the only way to tell if you have internal parasites is with a stool sample.

Lastly, snakes "cuddling" up together in the same hide isn't because they are trying to be social. Snakes don't function like that. It's because that is the hide that will give them the temperatures that they both seek. Be it to warm up or cool down. They'll use each other's body as a source of heat. It isn't because they WANT to be together.

[Slithergirl]

Well, I have regular stool samples on the cats, the dog, and the ferrets. I guess we will just have to start including the snakes.

I need to find one of those temp gauges that measure the air and check their tank. Both sides are set up identical with the same wattage of heat lamp and same size undertank mat. I didn't sit it near a window or a vent. So I don't know what could cause the temps to be off. They arn't together all the time...just occassionally.

With there size, I will have to take some different pics tonight to show their size. The guy I got them from was the one who said they were yearlings and to feed them once a week. But if he was wrong I want to know. Both are at least a foot and a half and are about the size of a fifty cent peice at their thickest point. Their necks are about as wide as my pinky finger. But I will get dif pics.

[Aaron_S]

You don't need to keep stool samples for the snakes. If they are captive bred, I wouldn't count on them having internal parasites. I'm just warning it's a possiblity with wild caught animals. Also, it's good to quarantine any new animals.

How large is your tank? It's not a good idea to have both sides heated up. Only one side should be heated and the other with nothing. So they have a gradient. If they wish to cool down, they can and if they wish to heat up, they can do that as well. I didn't say the temps are off but you should have something to read at all times. It's part of basic husbandry.

Don't use how old they are as a way to tell how much or how big a snake should be. Some snakes can be fed less in their first year and be smaller than a snake who's only been alive for 6 months. Some pics would help, and stick to the once a week feeding for now.

[Slithergirl]

Well there tank is around four-five feet long and two to three feet wide. My mother used to have a ginormouse salt water aquarium and that is what I used for their enclouser. I think it is like a 300g tank. On each far end their is a undertank heat pad. I bought the ones for 50g tanks cause that was as big as I could find. There is a 150w heat bulb with 10" dome on each end, but the middle has nothing for heat. I mist daily and they have a warm water tub and a cool water tub. Some climbing vines and branches, but they only use them when they are exploring. I use aspen bedding. I have a screen top right now, but I am thinking about replacing it with a glass top for humidity purposes. My tank temps usually stay around 82-85 were the heat lamps are.

I didn't get new pics of them yet, we had really bad weather last night and I didn't get to it.

[mykee]

"Also, I've found Americans don't get sarcasm in person so its unlikely they are gonna get it when its typed.
"

Where? Where are they? I don't see no stinkin' Americans... I do agree with you though.....we CANADIANS are masters of the sarcasm.

Aaron, all I can say to you is you have more patience than I. It seems this site is all about the newcomer to the hobby and you, your patience, knowledge and level head are surely an asset to this site.
"You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din".
Well, maybe not better, ahhh you get the idea......

I guess seeing the same question from owners that jump into reptile ownership without any proper research regarding the animal just aren't my cup of tea anymore.

[Slithergirl]

Okay, took a drive to the breeder, got two already dead small rats. And they worked great! My sweeties didn't care one bit that they actually died about an hour before they got them. They lunged at them like they did the live ones and everything. So thanks for everyones help. I think this is my new perfered way of feeding. :)

[Aaron_S]

haha Mykee...thanks for the compliments.

It isn't so bad sometimes.

[Aaron_S]

Ok, I just read your post regarding your enclosure. Wow, that's a big enclosure. Immensely difficult to regulate proper temperatures and humidity. Go with the glass lid as you suggested to help with the humidity. I'd personally go with smaller, seperate enclosures.

It's kind of funny you have a heat lamp at heatpads going. Heat lamps will suck the tank dry so no matter if you mist daily you're losing all your humidity, with the screen lid and the fact aspen doesn't hold moisture you're probably not doing too well in that department. My suggestion, is to stick both pads on one side. and take the lamps off altogether. Again, get something to read both humidity and temperatures and CHECK THE COLD SPOTS!

[Slithergirl]

What type of subtrate would be better? Repti Bark?

[Aaron_S]

That stuff works. A cypress mulch. Or some of that dirt that comes in block form and expands when placed in hot water. Using seperate,rubbermaid containers for the enclosures would be much easier. Although I know they are pets and I'm sure you want to view them so at least smaller enclosures are better than a really large one. More suited for salt water fish. Also, did you really clean that tank out amazingly well before placing the snakes in there?

[Slithergirl]

Yes, it was cleaned out well. I really had to scrub it good because it had sat in the barn for awhile. It has been several years since fish lived there anyway. Well, this weekend I moved around the heat pads and changed to the coconut fiber stuff for bedding. (I have plenty of it around because I use it for my redfoots) My husband is working on some sort of divider to split the tank into two. I don't want to use rubbermaids, cause like you said...they are pets and I enjoy watching them. Thanks for all the help, I really do appreciate it.

[Aaron_S]

if you split it into two, don't forget you need double of everything! Two hot spots, multiple hides, two water dishes, TWO therometers and hygrometers (humidity gauges)

[Slithergirl]

Well, I pretty much have two of everything already because it is such a large enclouser. So that isn't an issue. I will need to pick up more meters though.