Bitis gabonica x arietans

[Maik Dobiey]

Hi there,

I hope you know how these hybrids look like. I couldn't find a photo in the www. Photos can be seen in
Branch 1998: Fieldguide to the Snakes and other reptiles of southern africa or Spawls et al 2004: Fieldguide to the reptiles of east africa
Dobiey & Vogel 2007: Venomous snakes of africa

I was wondering how much such a hybrid would cost. To my knowledge there has never been on in the reptile trade and no one ever succeded in crossing the two species in captivity. Their coloration is amazing! I would say the most beautiful viper in the world.

Do you have an idea of a price in case you could get one of those?

Best wishes,
Maik Dobiey

[The Snake Guru]

Though the real issue is why would you want too?

I know there have been several successful crossings of RhinoXGabbs, this one wouldn't surprize me either.

However a Hybrid Venomous snake is a VERY VERY dangerous thing.....anti-venon sometimes doesn't work anymore with hybrids....or works poorly. Just something to think about before acquiring one.

~B~

[treeboa34]

plus why ruin two of the most beautiful snakes on the planet you dont need to make them any more beautiful! Its not possible

[Jason Wakelin]

I could be wrong here, but as I read his post this is a naturally occuring hybrid. The authors he mentions (Branch and Sprawls) are very well respected herpetologists. He also mentions that this has not been done in captivity, to his knowledge. So I'm assuming that the photos in the books he quotes are natural, which is possible. Especially with a snake such as Puff Adders, who have a huge range. They must come into contact with Gaboons occasionally.

[FLVenom]

I could be wrong here, but as I read his post this is a naturally occuring hybrid. The authors he mentions (Branch and Sprawls) are very well respected herpetologists. He also mentions that this has not been done in captivity, to his knowledge. So I'm assuming that the photos in the books he quotes are natural, which is possible. Especially with a snake such as Puff Adders, who have a huge range. They must come into contact with Gaboons occasionally.


Just because it can, doesn't mean it should.

[Jason Wakelin]

Did you actually read the post? No where did I say it should be done. I just was speculating on the possibility of naturally occuring species intergrades. Do you people come here to discuss reptiles, or to pick fights with each other?

[The Snake Guru]

I wasn't picking a fight I was just stating my view on the subject.

~B~

[gonesnakee]

Big difference between Hybrids & Intergrades. Intergrades are naturally occurring, Mother Natures doing & Hybrids are from Man's meddlings & do not occur naturally. ;) Jason was just pointing out the facts, if you don't like intergrades take it up with Mother Nature ;) Mark

[The Snake Guru]

I didn't say there was a problem with intergrades....I'm just saying that it isn't naturally occuring when they are bred that way in captivity for sale there of....unless of course he was talking about getting a wild caught one?

~B~

[Jason Wakelin]

I was thinking he was describing a natural intergrade, since his post says it has never been done in captivity to his knowledge. Also of the 3 books that have pictures of these animals, one has his name on it as an author. Of course this is the same thing I posted already. I think some people stop reading after the word "hybrid" and just start to become preachy, or defensive, depending on what they believe.

[decepticon]

I didn't say there was a problem with intergrades....I'm just saying that it isn't naturally occuring when they are bred that way in captivity for sale there of....unless of course he was talking about getting a wild caught one?

~B~

well my friend, the very concept of keeping snakes in captivity is "unnatural" so thats not a good reason to detract from the propogation of naturally occurring intergrades. ;)

[The Snake Guru]

well my friend, the very concept of keeping snakes in captivity is "unnatural" so thats not a good reason to detract from the propogation of naturally occurring intergrades. ;)

Cute. That's a nice play on words! LOL :no:

~B~

[decepticon]

No counter-point? Ah, I see. Cute. ;)

[The Snake Guru]

No counter-point? Ah, I see. Cute. ;)

Give me an actual point I'll be happy to oblige.

Everyone has there own idea when it comes to this stuff....the bantering argument could go on for years and you still wouldn't get anywhere, hardly worth time to argue about it...I said I thought, that's enough for me.

~B~

[decepticon]

My point is that YOUR point is full of holes.

To argue against a practice in herpetoculture because it is "unnatural" is as blatant a case of hypocrisy one can exhibit.

To say that "intergrades/hybrids are wrong because they're unnatural" is a rediculous statement if you really think about it. Every aspect of keeping any animal in captivity is against the natural order of things, so why the double standard?

[The Snake Guru]

*Please See above statement*

If hypocrit I must be ...... then hypocrit I so stand labeled. far be it from me to argue with a Transformer.

~B~

[TailsW/Scales]

Are you boys done with your pissing contest???? lol

The facts remain that yes species inner breed in the wild. If they didn't how would new species of reptile come about on this planet? The reptile fairy?
Guess how many "sub species" of rattle snake there are? Especially with the Diamond backs. Many scientists have proven that these animals are very closely related and are from the same genus.
It's in no way abnormal for animal species in the same genus to inner breed in the wild. Mother nature does as she pleases.

Now if species should or shouldn't inner breed in captivity is all about a matter of opinion. Plain and simple. Each person is going to have their own feelings on the issue. Personally ........................ I have seen a Gab /rhino cross and those snakes are amazing looking. I would'nt own one but they are gorgeous. The taxonomy on this cross is still unknown. Brad does bring up a good point in that there is no guarantee that antivenin will work. But that can also be said for ANY venomous snake and the person who's been bitten.

This argument has been around for what seems like ions in the reptile world. It will be around for ions more I'm sure. But the facts are yes, for sure, 100% species inner breed in the wild. Does it make it right to do it in captivity .............. to each his own.

Just my two cents

[Aaron_S]

Especially a Decepticon.


*Please See above statement*

If hypocrit I must be ...... then hypocrit I so stand labeled. far be it from me to argue with a Transformer.

~B~

[decepticon]

Theres always more than meets the eye. ;)