Stupid $%^@ing laws!!!!!

[eyespy]

The zoning laws in my city ( in PA not too far from Philadelphia) have forbidden sales of "pythons" for years but everyone who has any experience herping knows that any boid is off limits and will be confiscated. Amazon Tree Boas have been taken, for example.

Now, in order to clear things up, the law was recently rewritten as "constricting snakes". When a local herper complained that several harmless and popular colubrids are constrictors and that this wording did not reflect the intent of the law, government officials told him that the law would stand as written and he'd better get rid of those snakes or risk losing them!

The law is still confusing, it only forbids sales, not keeping. Yet keepers have lost their snakes under the old python wording. I'm wondering how far they will go in enforcing the new law? I run a rescue and don't want to risk losing my permit but do I really have to avoid corns and kings now too? I have a 19 inch snow corn and she isn't going without a fight!

Petshops in neighboring cities sell large boids such as burms and carpets yet the county also has laws against snakes (over 4 feet in their case) and many of these animals end up being confiscated after they start nearing a mature size. Mom and pop type stores have had their stock taken, but chain stores never seem to be bothered.

Meanwhile, 6 miles from me some idiot has released 4 (well, 4 that have been seen, anyway, who knows how many really?) alligators into the woods and animal control is trying to hire folks to capture and euthanize them. Why must they be destroyed, when they could be sold out of the jurisdiction and actually make the township some money?

I HATE this bias against herps!

[Nanashi04]

That would set me off. Luckily, Kansas is pretty open to unusal pets - from mountain lions to herps.

Did you think of petitioning?

[reverendsterlin]

you could always strike first in a courtroom, though that could backfire. glad NM is fairly open though I do have to live outside the city limits

[Rebecca]

I'd fight it with the support of your fellow herpers. Start a petition, and also collect all the info you can on the forbiddin reptiles to go with it. It could work! I beat the gov (totally unrelated to herps) once maybe you can too. I hope for the best for you if you choose to fight this.

[fade2black]

Wouldn't your license cover you? How did you get the license if they are "illegal" to keep? Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know anything about licensing. :)

Fade

[eyespy]

My license permits me to "temporarily" house any herp in need of ongoing medical care, and then offer them for adoption outside of the jurisdiction. I am not permitted to keep or sell restricted animals.

Still, I don't accept large boids (or species native to PA, which is our only statewide restriction) because other folks with permits have had them revoked for keeping boids for too long. If animal control feels the animal no longer needs meds, transdermal or intracoelemic hydration (injecting sterile saline under the skin or into the cloaca), or quarantine the animal might be confiscated. Most of the time confiscated animals are euthanized.

Under the current laws I'm afraid that my own pet, a hatchling snow corn, might be taken.

Herpers have been petitioning against the old form of the law since the 1970s and have often been raided as a reward. Appeals to the circuit court have gone in favor of the city. I'm basically afraid to add my name to anything because of all that has happened. I'm hoping the local herp society will be successful in their attempts to get herpetologists from local zoos to help us point out that even the largest constricting snake can be safely housed and that risks to the public at large are almost non-existant. They are willing to submit to a "by permit only" statute so that folks need to prove their handling skills in order to keep large boids, which seems a reasonable compromise to me.

I've often thought there should be a competency exam before people become parents, and would be willing to accept a similar exam to keep my herp kids. ;)

[tai_pan1]

Get involved in your local politics. Befriend a State Assemblyman or State Senator. Setting up the initial meeting could be a hassle but once you meet with them, be factual and state your case. Also if you know other herpers, their names could be helpful. Politicians look to help "blocks" of voters in hopes that these people will help re elect them. Also, politicians are always looking for legislative issues to set themselves apart from those running against them. They want to show how they "help" their constituents.

Good luck,

Mike

[eyespy]

Got my new star today and now I guess I am illegal in my city! Hope I don't get confiscated. :eek:

To update the situation, one of the officers of the herp society scheduled some time at next City Council meeting to discuss this law yesterday, and today he was inspected by Animal Control. He keeps Savannah monitors, blue-tongued skinks and assorted frog species, so he was safe. Others may not be so lucky. I know for a fact that several members keep boids, and of course now we have to worry if we keep corns, kings, etc.

I've emailed a few local politicians, the newspaper and 3 TV stations to see if any of that will help. The herp society also has a call in to the Bar Association to see if any young lawyer is willing to do some pro bono work to establish a reputation. I'll let you folks know any news, either good or bad.

I'm afraid it's an uphill battle, though. Around 600 boids are sold in my county each year, and roughly 400 a year end up in rescues. This was probably not the reason the city passed its law, but is the primary one cited whenever we try to challenge it. Herpers around these parts have to work a lot harder to educate the newbies, I guess.

[Quakezombie]

Hello everyone,I am indeed new to this board .

...But,here is my .02 anyways.

Should the people that owned that housecat that bred wildly out of control be fined ? (It will never happen)

..Or what about all those LARGE dogs people keep (Rotts/shepards/Dobies) ? As these can (and HAVE !) caused more damage than herps (that are usually kept indoors anyway).

Let alone the ingnorance of the nature of a Kingsnake or milksnake,BOTH of which were here in this country before ANY of us !!!

Oh wait a sec ...i forgot ...This is a Democracy Not a free country...

[escm]

Originally posted by Quakezombie


...


Oh wait a sec ...i forgot ...This is a Democracy Not a free country...

amen.

[tightsqueeze]

i agree
just don't tell anyone you have them


jay

[Them and Us]

yeah but with a permit eyespy is already known as a keeper of snakes it would be hard to say " no i completely forsook my infatuation and care of these animals and am complying wth the law"

[eyespy]

Besides, I run a rescue and animal control is in and out of my place all the time dropping off animals confiscated because of abuse/neglect issues. There are only so many critters one can hide in a 3 room apartment.

[hip]

This is were your vote and the vote of others make sence. Support a candicate who stands for you or one who believes in freedom to keep constrictors .Make public the issue get the press involved and T V jut make sure you do it right get the symphathy on your side not the fear.What is the law about hots in your sphere of influence and can it be worked to your favour.Like it or not politics got this started and politics is the only way to end it . Hip I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it!!!!.Stand up and be counted!!!!!!!

[tai_pan1]

Eyespy, where in Pa do you live? I'm in south jersey just across the Walt Whitman.

[eyespy]

I'm in Allentown, tai pan1, so we're kinda neighbors. ;)

hip, we are allowed to keep hots without a permit or anything, and we can keep other "dangerous" herps like crocodilians as well. I'm afraid that is the next law to be passed though, since that fool released his gators in Bear Swamp a couple of towns over.

[tai_pan1]

Yea, Allentown is not too far. What is the name of your refuge? Do you run it out of your home or seperate buildings? Sometimes different zoning laws apply to non profit organizations than apply to residential housing. Maybe there are some loopholes in the ordnance.