Housing two BP's

[Voodoo]

Hi I recently adoppted a large 4ft I think male bp. He is extremly healthy and nice especially since i rescued him from a abused home. My question is I have a female 2ft bp that is a little underweight would i be able to house them together. I have shown them to each other and they dont seem to notice that theirs another snake their;) . They would go in a 1oo gal tank. Neither is agressive. I have plans on building a new tank for them in the near future. So would they be fine togther or not. Also the male seems to be inceribly arboreal while my female seems to never come out of her hidebox which he could never fit in.

Thanks for all the advice and my boys name is Steve.:medbigsmi

[redtails]

First you need to quarantine them for a couple weeks at least. Also, if you do keep them together, make sure you feed them separately and outside their enclosures, otherwise you could be missing a snake the next time you check on them. I guess its ok, I've seen a lot of people keeping a pair or more together and they turned out ok.

[Pintado]

I have housed more than one snake in the same enclosure before. It is frowned upon, most breeders will tell you it is not a good idea. Most snakes are not social animals.

Pinner

[peterm15]

its also very unsafe fopr your female.. she is not even close to large enough to breed while he is.. hell try and breed with her constantly and she may heven get eggs.. now because of her size she would most likely die..

espicall with ball pythons.. seperate caging is WAY better..

[Mister Internet]

First you need to quarantine them for a couple weeks at least.

This is just bad advice. If you're only going to quarantine for a couple weeks, you may as well not bother at all. There's no way that a condition will raise its head in two weeks unless the snake is at death's door when you get it. Minimum quarantine observed by all serious keepers is 3-6 months.

[redtails]

Hey, get with the times mistress internet. It may have been advised to go that long in a quarantine say 10 yrs ago, but most people don't put up with it for that long if at all. Reason I suggested that time amount was it's plenty of time to let the snake adjust to it's new home as well as check for mites, RI, other signs of illness, and also to go to a vet for a general checkup. Most info you read nowadays won't say to quarantine them over 3 months.

[Mister Internet]

My apologies for suggesting care methodology that actually puts the animals' interests ahead of what "people will put up with". Of course, our convenience is paramount when dealing with the living creatures in our care, I was silly to suggest otherwise.

If one thinks about the REAL reasons for quarantine, it becomes obvious why 2 weeks is a futile amount. Here's a couple of hints... mites are immediately visible upon close physical examination, RI isn't communicable, and enclosure acclimation certainly doesn't take three months. So if those are the "reasons" for doing quarantine, you can probably skip it. What, then, do you think the REAL reasons for quarantine might be?

And "mistress internet"? Grow up, your Underoos are showing.

[redtails]

Whatever man, lets just agree to the 3 months then. Easier than arguing over personal preferences, but seeing as he's only 15, pretty new to herps, and willing to house 2 snakes together for non-breeding purposes, he probably won't be quaranteeing his snakes at all. Sorry everyone for the diversion and namecalling.

Anyways, I thought your mom wouldn't let you keep anymore snakes voodoo?

[Voodoo]

Actually this is his Mom replying:medsmile: I am not the largest lover of snakes although I have taught him to love everything with and without fur. He begged for snakes when he was 5 and it only took 10 more years to talk me into his first. I have owned other reptiles but never a snake. Being 15 and having much younger children in the house I was against a Burmese which he thought was a good idea. I am a dog groomer and have owned one of everything domestic. I ran a parrot rescue and was just surprised to see him end up loving snakes, However the risks of owning snakes with so many other animals and other children has outweighed his love for them. I was the one to find the other Ball Python for him at a shelter and have tried to show him the other side and rescue instead of breeding for now as he is still learning and has medical issues and school that should remain his priority for now. Someday when he has the resources and the education if he decides to own and breed snakes in his own home I will support it as I would do with most of his decisions. He is a mature kid although like myself becomes very narrow in his interests and want to show him how many reptiles end up in shelters or euthinized from "backyard" breeders or people that have not thought about the commitment. Thank you all for answering his questions and welcoming him to your board.

[redtails]

No problem, that's cool. Sounds like my mom. I understand greatly the need for loving homes for these abandoned snakes. I belong to my local herpetological association and often adopt/temp house from there as they get a lot of animals surrendered to them. There's a raffle at every meeting and for $1 you have very good odds of winning the snake of your dreams. Well, good luck with your ventures Steve.

[JCReptile]

it is not recommended to house multiple ball pythons in the same enclosure. if one is sick then the other will most likely get sick aswell. there are also dominance issues. keepers do it with some success. it is possible just not recommended.

and quarantine of new animals for a few months is definately a good idea.

just trying to help...

[s_robb]

Hey, get with the times mistress internet. It may have been advised to go that long in a quarantine say 10 yrs ago, but most people don't put up with it for that long if at all. Reason I suggested that time amount was it's plenty of time to let the snake adjust to it's new home as well as check for mites, RI, other signs of illness, and also to go to a vet for a general checkup. Most info you read nowadays won't say to quarantine them over 3 months.


It is still advised that all snakes especially Boas, and Pythons are Quarantined for at least 3 months due to growing cases of Inclusion body disease (IBD)


Here is a link for more information about this Virus and Quarantine Procedures.
Inclusion Body Disease (http://www.anapsid.org/ibd.html)

Cleaning, Disinfecting and Sterilizing (Reptiles) (http://www.anapsid.org/cleaning.html)

[Kurzix]

@s_robb I was going to say exactly what you did....IBD that alone is reason to quarintine for IMO 6 months on boids. Because if that shows its ugly head, kiss all your beloved snakes goodbye!

Quite personally I think anyone that only quaritines for a few weeks, or even as little as a month or 2, considers the animal a throw away pet. To me there is no diffrence in how I care for and house, a $30 ball python or a $3000 ball python. (except I am more likely to put the nicer looking one in a display like cage)

[SerpentLust]

I'm jumping on the "don't house them together" wagon...

SOO many problems can arise. Serious medical issues have been discussed such as IBD. But what about even simple things like what if both snakes aren't deficating? If you do find out to be sick, it will spread to the other and you will have no idea if the fecal you are bringing to the vet is the right one.

I know this is not widely discussed with Ball Pythons and mostly with colubrids, but there have been documented cannibalism cases with BP's. Especially because your female is half the size. Furthermore, they will be competing for resources and they are solitary animals. Other people I have talked to thought it was "cute that their snakes cuddle"....they aren't cuddling, they both want that warm spot, hide, etc.

Goodness I could go on and on...

The stress on the female being small and the male constantly trying to breed her was already discussed so I won't touch on that one. Obviously with the added stress she is a very good candidate for going off feed because of it aswell, and as you said, she's underweight.

I do realize that many people do house their snakes together without any issues at all, but just to me, I see the risks involved and steer clear. I would rather make room for an extra enclosure than just shove a couple per cage because I wanted another snake. The only time my Spotted's were together was for breeding.

So there's my extremely long two cents haha And your mother sounds exactly like mine...yet somehow I ended up with many more animals than she expected LOL

Jenn

[LdyPayne]

I think its the other way around when breeding ball pythons...people put small barely two year old (sometimes barely a year old) males with huge 3000g + females...makes the male look like a hatchling in comparison to the big female. I am more surprised the females don't scarf down the males LOL.

Humor aside, I do feel it is best to house snakes separately except for breeding purposes. Though many snakes share the same 'pit' during brumation or to wait out the heat of the day...that is mostly because it is the best spot to do it in the area. Once brumation is done or the heat of the day is gone, the leave and head in separate directions. They do not have any interest in being in groups (though some species of garter snakes need to have their babies kept in groups...they seem to thrive better that way, feeling more secure etc). For ball pythons, corn snakes and most other boids/colubrids they are solitary animals.

I also feel that even if they coil in the same hide...whoever is closest to the heat source is going to get the full benefits of belly heat...the snake stuck on top or only has part of their body in contact with the heat, won't get the full benefits..thus won't digest food properly etc.
Its the same thing with lizards that need to bask under heat lamps and they are housed too many in a cage with not enough basking spots...they all wind up piling on top of each other..and the bottom ones in this case, suffer as they are not getting sufficient heat/light.

Snakes can be housed in the same cage with great success. Its not impossible to do. But the cage needs to be roomy, with sufficiant warm and cool hides and moist hides for all occupants and some to spare. (they all have their favorites). Also the cage must meet the requirements for the species as well. But even then, there is increased chance of stress, spread of disease etc. Not to mention if one gets sick all snakes in the cage have to be treated, even if only one snake shows signs of being sick. By the time the sick snake is treated and healthy, one or more of the other snakes can be sick as well or carrying the disease..thus reinfection can occur.

Another issue that wasn't mentioned before (or I missed it) is feeding response. Even if all snakes are fed outside the enclosure...often the scent of prey on a cage mate can trigger a strike and thus end up with one snake accidentally swallowing the other and if both are the same size or close to it...what most likely will happen is both snakes will die.

[Dark Wyvern]

House them separtely. if you can't afford housing for more than one snake, you shouldn't own more than one.

[mykee]

I'm with Lady and Dark; house them seperately. There is no need to put your balls in harms way if it's not necesary. If this means anything to you; the big guys, breeders who have been doing this for years and years with loads of experience (and me) do not house their balls togheter except for breeding purposes.

[ToddBecker]

Very good Point ldypayne. I have personally experienced a feeding response just as you nmentioned. Years ago while I housed three burmese pythons together. I fed them outside their enclosure (which I am strongly opposed of now for any of the large boids). I fed my largest female which was approximately 7'. Then I returned her to the cage and pulled out my otehr female who was about 6'. After she fed I did the same thing and returned her to the cage. Almost immediately after re-entering the encloure the first(bigger) of the burms smelled the scent of the prey on the skin of the other snake and attacked and contstricted. I had to get in there and physically seperate the two animals. It was quite a hectic situation and they weren't even that large...lol. Now we all know that Balls do not have a feeding response quite as aggressive as burms or retics but they still have one. ANd even balls will stay in feeding mode for quite a while after tehy consume their prey, sometimes for several hours. So yes I agree with the masses that it is always best to house snakes seperately except for the purpose of breeding.