worth it?

[-okapi-]

I was just wondering if anyone thought it would be worth the time needed to create blazing blizzards. I have an albino female and an unsexed bliz hatchling and I was wondering, if the bliz turns out being a male, would it be worth the effort to breed my leos then inbreed their 100% het babies to try and get blazing bliz leos. Heres what ive calculated (correct me if im wrong):
albino + bliz = 100% DH (double hets)
DH + DH = less than 10% double recessive (blazing bliz)

Ive also read that the bliz and albino genes are so close to eachother on the DNA that sometimes they dont seperate during mitosis (or is it miosis ???) um... what im trying to say is they dont seperate when the sperm or egg is made, instead that whole part of the DNA strand stays togeather and so it is not a normal paring up of genes from each parent like a punnett square can predict. If thats the case, then the odds of a DH + DH = something like 1 in 1,000 babies are blazing blizards.

I understand that this post might be very confusing to some people, sorry.

Thanks in advance.

[-okapi-]

Oh, I think I should also add that both are from pet stores, so they could be hets and I dont know it. It would be awsome if the bliz was het for albino or vice versa!

[Grove]

No, I don't think you should inbreed because it makes the gecko`s imune system
is not as strough and it shortens the life of the animal. Sory for my spelling.

[bdriver2]

Sorry to say, and I know to us its wrong but: inbreeding in almost unavoidable and plays a key role in morph development. Any morph of leo you see on the market these days was developed through inbreeding, and fact is that most serious breeders today also do it. Some morphs are the final product of inbreeding: where you technically isolate "deformities" in the leo genetics ie. colours, size, pattern etc b/c you have to remeber that these are not wild traits and would lessen the leo chance for survival. Unless you are willing to bring in fresh bloodlines every year, which is very expensive you have no choice but to inbreed. Its also how you get stunning line-bred traits, amongst others. I will also add that it is a good idea to outcross the bloodlines every third or fourth generation. Just my 2 cents.

Drew

[nashwdragons]

I totally agree with bdriver 2.....most of the high end morphs u see these days are the result of line breedind or selective inbreeding
thanx
nash

[-okapi-]

Also with inbreeding, It isnt always a bad thing. Even in families there is some genetic differences. The problems associated with inbreeding are negative traits that are caused by a large amount of inbreeding for several generations. These problems show themselves more on "higher" life forms more quickly than "lower" ones (If you look at it that way...). A little inbreeding never hurt anybody (I SAID A LITTLE), Its just when Its over done. How do you think populations form on Islands? The theory is that a few gravid female iguanas rafted from south america to pacific islands and formed new populations. Dont you think those populations are inbreeding just a little bit? Most breeders of any animal inbreed for a while, then outbreed, then inbreed again, then outbreed. Thats how they create new bloodlines. And think about it, every single albino ball python is related to the very first/only albino ball python ever imported.

I only plan on inbreeding for 1 generation using my first two breeders from totally different bloodlines, Nothing should go wrong. It will be a great hands on learning experiance, plus I should get a blazing blizzard or two.

ps-I dont want anyone to start a joke about Kentucky and Inbreeding, If you want to do that go to the joke forum.

[Brion]

i agree with the info about inbreeding. in the animal world, it isn't the same, and it's expected. the results of inbreeding usually are positive, such as varied morphs, and specifically it is used in line breeding.

If you are planning on breeding leos just for a hobby with no specific project in mind, a suggestion is to try breeding hets and double hets, and wait to see what you come up with. It makes it more exciting and you may be very surprised. Most new morphs and line-bred traits are discovered by accident in the world of genetics.

I myself thought about trying for the blazing blizzard, but it seems very common now and there is a very low chance (1 in 16), especially when working with the first generation of offspring (double hets - parents being albino and blizzard) I have a male patternless, female normal, female albino, and baby blizzard (likely female). so i'm just gonna try something and see what happens. Good luck with your breeding group!

[-okapi-]

Thanks.

I hope that since both of them are pet store leos (from different chain stores), that they will be the extras from someones breeding projects. They may be hets for just about anything, because the two pet stores dont tell you what the parents are because they themselves have no clue and probably wouldnt know what het for tremper/het for blizzard/het for insert-your-fav-morph-here means anyways. I do know one thing, Im gonna have alot of leos (and Im gonna have to find a way to convence my mom that they are accidental breedings... maybe) when this is done. I dont trust the pet stores in my area to take good care of or find good enough homes for any animal, so i am not giving any of my extra babies to them. I guess that means Ill have about 20 or so leos, which isnt really a bad thing. Or i could get lucky and get a blazing leo out of my first DH + DH breeding! That would be cool.

[newticus]

I don't know if anyone actually cares, but one of the reasons for inbreeding to not be as detrimental as it may seem is because of the process of meiosis. after the gamates are drawn together with their homelogous pair they preform whats called crossing. basically part of each gamete switch with the other. So you can end up with different alleles at a particular locus. So once the haploid gamete is quardened off at the end of meiosis it is genteically unique from the parent gamete. In other words each sperm and egg is not an exact copy of the DNA that generated it. So even if father and daughter paired or brother and sister, there would be enough genetic variation to be viable and healthy. While if this is reapeated ad nauseum certain flaws can get fixed to another particular trait. Fixed meaning that genetic variation falls to zero, and unless new genetic material is introduced there can be no change in that gene or allele. It should also be said that this vary fact is one of the ways breeders fix the genetic traits they are aiming for and new speices and sub species are created. This is why creating new strains and morphs is difficult, since if the trait is not fixed well enough it can be lost or changed. At least so my understanding goes. There is another practice that does generally reduce over all health and fitness is hybridizing, including fertility, life span, and immune system. There are examples of hybridizing sub species, and i'm not sure it has such dire effect since these animals are very similar to begin with but it does contribute to confusion and can weaken certain strains of sub species and is generally frowned upon in the hobby.
anyway,,,, thanks for reading my blurb on meiosis.

[-okapi-]

I do, you brought up a very good point there.

[Leolord]

After reading about breeding leos and getting ready myself I've learned that inbreeding them is not bad and wont hurt them as long as you dont do it too much. If nobody tried to inbreed then your leos wouldnt have there morphs!!!!
Your also right about genetics sometimes people end up with tremper blizzards and stuff like that. I totally support you inbreeding cause im also gonna when i start.

--Matt--