New to snakes....need some advice...

[tuper]

Hello! I was given a ball python two days ago and have a few questions. I have read the FAQ and I have a book, but wanted to ask more specific stuff from the folks that keep these snakes as pets!

He is about 2 feet long and less than 2 years old (previous owner got him directly from the store as a little thing.) He was pretty dull and wrinkled, and looked like he needed to shed. So we soaked him in water (per book's instructions) for 30 minutes. My husband ws able to gently work off a bunch of the dead skin, and after his bath (which the poor snake hated) he immediately started rubbing his head on stuff. Overnight he managed to get a bunch more skin off, but today he looked as if he needs to shed ANOTHER layer of skin. Is this normal? His eyes are very cloudy and have a few dents in them. He looks a bunch better than he did before his first bath, but still is a bit wrinkley and has some more dead skin on him. The book I have says he's dehydrated. How do I cure that? I am working on getting his cage set up, but not sure what the best methods of adding humidity (without overdoing it) are. I have the gauge thingy in there are right now that says 38%. I know I need to get it up a little, but how?

Also, the previous owner said that he will only eat live mice but isn't a picky eater. She normally just threw the mice in the tank with the snake and left them there until it got eaten. I think one of them chewed on it's tail. (It is healing now, though.) She said that sometimes it would kill a mouse, but then just leave it there and not eat it. We got two mice from the store, and put on in a box with the snake. He acted real interested in it, but never struck out at it. We watched them for 30 minutes before we took them out. Should I try again tomorrow? He looks kinda skinny to me (to my uneducated eye!)

He also yawns a lot. Is that normal? And poop! He pooed yesterday. It was a solid white mass with a bunch of clear liquid. Is that normal snake poop?

He lives in a big tank with his heat rock (I can adjust the temp so he doesn't get burned), water bowl, tree/hiding spot, climbing stick, and other hiding spot. The bottom is newspaper. The temps on one side are 86 on one side, and 82 on the other. I still need to play around to get it all right. These are the things that he has lived with since the other lady owned him.

I would love to take him to the vet for a check up, but there isn't a reptile vet ANYWHERE near here! Hahaha! I'm kinda on my own here! But I care, and do really want to try and help the little guy. He is very sweet and has never offered to bite.

Here is a pic of him from last night. It is kinda yellow for some reason.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/tuperdoo/Goodsnake.jpg

Thanks in advance for any and all advice!

[Reticsrule]

well first of all congrats on you new addition! im not a ball python expert but there are a few things that i can answer for you.

first of all, you really want to switch him over to frozen thawed (f/t) food as soon as possible. as you mentioned, it is very likely that a live mouse took a piece out of his tail. live feeders can be very harmful to your ball and kill him. i reccomend that you go to a local reptile show as they usually sell frozen feeders there for about half the price of pet stores.

if hes over a year and a half old he should be longer than 2 feet long. its sounds to me like the lady that had him before you probably underfed him. its hard to tell if he is too thin or not from that pic but at that size and that age im just guessing hes underfed. balls are known to be picky feeders so dont be alarmed if he gos off feed for a couple weeks or months.

i know that balls dont need very high humidity but im sure someone else will tell you what the exact humitity should be. however, too low of a humidity level can cause poor sheds which may have happened to your ball.

i hope this helps a little and like i said im not an expert on balls and there are many other members here that will be able to help you a lot more than i can. feel free to ask any other questions you may have and good luck!:)

[zero&stich]

Hello, I keep 2 ball pythons myself. For starters, congrats on your little guy. They are great snakes to own, but will teach you patience, whether you like it or not. :) They demand it, lol. You will soon find out, what I mean as we're approaching their seasonal fasts. Your book should meantion something about them being seasonal feeders. If not, I can explain further, let me know.

Secondly, your current temps are too low, that is, if your using a an accurate temp thermometer. By the way, what are you using to measure your temps? Balls require very high tempatures to thrive, which "could" be a reason it is not eating. Temps should be 88-92 on warm side; 78-82 on cooler end with 50-60% humidity. To achieve higher humidity levels the easiest way would be to fill a clean spray bottle that has no chemicals or suds in it and spray down the enclosure with luke warm water. Spray the side panels, the decorations, like bbranches, leaves ect. It will cause the humidity to rise. However, you made need to moditor it, as the water evaperates, you made need to mist twice a day or accordinaly.

Third, the way your achieving the heat - the hot rock - is a BIG NO NO in the reptile(herp) world. As you said, you tried fiddling with the temps so the snake would not bet burned. That is the reason why hot rocks are hardly, if ever, used for herps. What happans is, they wrap themselves around the rock tryin to warm their entire body. This is not possiable. So while their backside is cold, they try to wrap their entire body(belly)around the rock, trying to warm the spine section, and not relizing they need to switch; flip their body over so that the backside is facing the rock. Instead, they coil very tightly around the rock, resulting in sever burns; sometimes fatal.

I would suggest an under tank heater(heat pad), and place it under the enclosure, prefably hooked to some means of a thermostat. I use ESU's thermostats on my pads. Their not the greatest, but they do work.

Frozen rodents aren't or shouldn't be hard to come by. Try rodentpro.com. If you know someone has snakes also, they might help split the shipping costs, if its high. But wait 7 days to try and feed again. Offering food too often will only stress the anmal out and prolong its feed schedual. If only just got it, it might not feed for a few days, weeks or months. It is still adjusting to his new home and with the soaking and shedding, I'm sure the little guys is warn out. You may see alot of activity, but thats not always a sign of hunger. These are nocturnal snakes, so to see it move around at night is to be expected. As long as its hydrated and drinking, the snake will be ok. Seek a vet online, that might live in the next county or state around you that deals with exotics, like reptiles :) You should really try and find a vet, that has the antibiotics, in case something serious arises.

Hard to say, if hes thin or not from the picture, but he does look like he could use some more wieght. Try wieghing him with a gram scale sometime. If he's under 300g's I would think that would be small for a 2 yr old male.

Looking at the pic, again its hard to tell, he doesn't look dehydrated. If he was in a bad case, his skin would be very saggy and not firm. It might just be the poor sheds he's having to deal with. When snakes shed, it helps to increase the humidity levels to 70-80%, pending on the species. If you are truely worried about dehydration, a soaking in Pedialite(meant for toddlers)might help, just moditor the python close and don't let it duck its head under and possiably drink. I wouldn't reccomend it, if that is a problem. A good soaking in luke warm tap water can help.

Looking at the enclosure itself...that looks odd to me cause I never seen something like that. Looks kinda cool. :) Cept where are the ventilation/ air holes?? Ideally, BP's should have 1 hide on the warm; 1 on the cool so they dont need to choose security over warmth. Cardboard boxes work and are cheap to replace when soiled.

I believe thats about it.
To the rest of the forum... :medbigsmi

[Edmond Y]

Cograts your new pet. I second with Zero&stich. a undertank heat pad, no matter reptile type or human heat pad, work great with a plug in lamp dimmer. Make the warm side about 90 degree and put a hide on both warm and cool side. For better result, cover three side of the tank and left the front for you to viewing. Cover 2/3 of the top so that easy control the humidity. They may not want to eat while ready to shed. Keep the humidity a little higher when you see he has a cloudy eye, Normally 60-70 % all year round wil be good for them.
Edmond

[snunior]

Okay the yawnig thing which i think you mean opening and closing the mouth is not good unless she just ate if there is a lot of saliva then take her to a vet. It couldd be mouth rot

Also, Be VERY careful with the shed pieces oon the eye...use a tweezers.

[zero&stich]

Snakes yawn, like us. There is no scientific proof why; just theories. For example, re-aligning(sp) their jaw after swallowing. I think snunior is refering to resportory infections, which I didn't bring up because its alot of information to take in; didn't want to worry you. But now that its been brought up, obvious signs of R.I.'s are weezing, discharge coming from the front of the nose(kinda like a bubbly white liquid), and yes, them gasping almost; like what snunior described, BUT IF he had a R.I. I highly doubt he would be out and in the open, and it would very obvious that his breathing was irregular: the weezing or rattling noise, just like in people is something that would have been heard, if not, the more obvious sign - discharge coming out of its nostrils.

I wouldn't worry a bout it, unless thos symptoms arise. In your book, it should entail a little, I hope, about resportory infections, if you want to learn about them but its really no different from us - the warning signs I mean. An Asthmatic is a good example.

Edit, oh by the way, opening and closing a mouth is not a case of "mouth rot". Mouth rot, I believe, is a bacterial infection. Two cause where it comes from, is unclean or filthy enclosure, allowing bacteria to grow or infection, possiably from, cuts or abrasions. There's others, I believe, where "mouth rot", develops, but I cant remember without looking it up. Just thought, I'd clear that to.

I'm on a roll tonight... :medbigsmi :medbigsmi

[tuper]

Thank you guys so much for your responses so far! I will get the spray bottle as soon as I can find one (I know I've got some new ones around here somewhere.) I am planning on getting a heating pad too, just have to wait till next payday.....Money does tend to put a damper in things sometimes, doesn't it? ;)

Well, I don't know what the sex of the thing is, really, my hubby just decided it was a boy! :D And no, he doesn't wheeze or snot, or drool, and he doesn't yawn a ton, just several times in a row at various times during the day.

I never thought about getting onling to search for a vet. Will have to try. What about the poop? Is the white solid with a clear liquid normal snake poo? (Ewwwww!)

I will wait a while and try to feed again, I just don't want him to starve! THe lady I got him from said he ate last about 3 weeks ago, and my book says one of his size shoudl eat once a week. The lady that had him isn't a bad person, I think the novelty just wore off and she forgot about him.

The thing he's in is a huge tank with a screen lid. We plan on covering the back to make the snake feel more secure. (We already found out he doesn't like yellow! Poor thing opened his mouth and made a noise at a yellow detergent bottle that was beside the sink during his bath!)

I have read that they stress easy, and I feel bad for all this manhandling of him. BUt I also have ready that they (ideally) shed in one big piece like snakes in the wild. This lady said he has never shed like that. I doubt she ever paid any attention to the humidity levels in the tank.

Gosh I'm long winded! :D I will try to get a few more pics of him a little later!

Thanks again!

[hbwright]

Good for you for giving this guy/gal a home he deserves. They can be great pets and members of the family.

A couple things that have helped with bad sheds could be to get a small rubbermaid, shoebox size or so, and drill small holes around the top of it, fill about an inch (not too deep for him to have to swim in) with coolish water. Your body temp is normally 98.6 so water that feels luke warm to you will be too hot for your snake. Put the top on and leave him at it for an hour or so. Then you can let him slither through a towel and he'll use that to help get off some of the remaining retained shed.

For your screen top something that will help hold moisture in is to saturate a towel and lay it across the top of the screen to cover about 2/3 of the enclosure. I have done this and it keeps the humidity up for a good day so you can put this into your daily routine. Just be sure to change the towel out every few days to make sure it is not harboring bacteria or growing mildewed.

With the spray bottle, fill it with HOT water. When it comes out it will be the right temp to spray your enclosure and even your snake with. Test it out on your own skin (inside wrist is the most sensitive to temperatures, the way you would test the temperature of a baby bottle). You'll feel that even though the water in the bottle is very hot it comes out cool. When they are in shed a good spray right on them is helpfull in making sure their skin is moist.

An idea you could use with your current mice would be to go ahead and dislocate their necks and get them in the freezer. You can entice your new ball to eat frozen/thawed. It isn't always easy and it does take patience on your part but the new member of your family will thank you for it. I will not get too much into the debate of frozen/thawed, fresh killed and live, but I will be happy to explain more by PM or e-mail. All I can say is that deader is better and there is no reason to feed live, EVER.

Conrats on the new family member and I'm so glad you sought help in a good forum.

[tuper]

Thanks for the towel idea, I'm going to do that right now!

Here is a pic of him from several months back.....he is no where near this fat now.....

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y27/tuperdoo/TheSnake.jpg

You can tell in the pic how he still has the skin around his head and eyes. I will try to get recent pics of him tonight when he gets his bath.

[tuper]

Oh, and what color pattern is he? (I know NOTHING about all that!) He looks brown and tan to me, but i know there is a name for it! :D

[zero&stich]

Color pattern; you mean a 'normal'?
If its poop is a linkin log, brown cupcapke, the turds to end all turds, its probably ok. :) As long as its firm, and not wattery or looking like diarea.

You're right, he does look like he has lost quite a bit of wieght, maybe finding a vet might be a good idea to give him a check-up, to make sure he's still healthy. If you do find one, you'll need to bring a stool sample in with you. The vet can test for internal parcites, ect.

Best of luck. He's a pretty little 'guy'. :D

[Kury]

Just one thing to add on, a solid white mass is actually a urate (is that the right word? spelling?) It's the way snakes pass urine, along with fluid. Poop will be normal colour (that is to say, brown) and should be pretty solid. I find my ball pythons poop to look a lot like a cats. They don't poop too often, either, especially if he's not eating much. If they're eating every week, they should poop every or every other week. If they're eating once a month or so, they're going to poop about once a month, give or take a couple weeks. As for the liquid with the white, that's just the liquid part of the waste, normal, and helps pass the solid. Even when they poop I find there's a bit of oily liquid, though you won't see it unless you catch it right away, or if they poop on you! Otherwise it just soaks into your substrate.

AND if your snake decides to go on a long long fast, and doesn't eat for 4 or more months, it shouldn't be pooping at all. It should be drinking more water than usual though, and will continue to pass fluids and the occasional white piece.

And to repeat what everyone else is saying, good on you for taking him/her in! and good luck!

[tuper]

Well, Sorin decided to finally eat a mouse for us on Sunday night. We fed live, because that's what the pet store had. We put him in a cardboard box when he started showing his nightly activity, then added the mouse. Didn't take him long to strike! We were pretty relieved that he ate. I had another mouse, but decided to wait a few days to let him try to eat the other one.

Well, today I noticed that the mouse was looking a bit lethargic, and noticed that (OOOPS) I hadn't watered it in a few days. (The darn things STINK to be so little, so he was put out of sight [smell,] out of mind.) He ended up dying this afternoon and I didn't want him to go bad, so I stuck him in the cardboard box with the snake to see if he would eat it. The lady I got him from SWORE he wouldn't eat a dead mouse, but after a while he started trying. It took him a few minutes of gnawing on the tail to determine he was trying to swallow it backwards! Hahahaha! He finally turned it around and swallowed it right.

I am pretty pleased that he has eaten two mice this week. Especially since the poor guy is so skinny. I think I'm going to get two more mice in a few days to see if he won't eat again. I don't want to feed him too much, but he needs to gain some weight! :D

[hbwright]

I'm glad he ate for you and especially that you now KNOW he will eat pre-killed. Now just work on getting him f/t and you're set in the feeding department. Try to resist the temptation to overfeed him to make up for lost time. Overfeeding is just as detrimental to health as underfeeding. Give him the proper sized prey once a week and that is all he needs until he gets bigger and then you can cut that down to every 10 or so days. If he has been on smaller sized items then he needs it wouldn't hurt him to slowly increase the size to the right size. A big jump in prey size could stress them and cause more problems including regurg and/or another feeding strike.