Bali Dwarf Retic - Need Help to Decide

[fionak]

Hi all. Ages since I've posted in this forum. When I first came here I had 1 Pueblan Apricot Milksnake. Now I have 2 Royal Pythons (BPs), 2 RTBs, 6 Cornsnakes and the Milksnake.

I have the chance of buying a Bali Dwarf Retic young female. She's about 4ft - 4 1/2ft in length and absolutely stunning. I handled her the other day but unfortunately she seems to have a really nasty streak. She went for my face several times (luckily I managed to get my face just out of reach) so she bit on my hand. To start with she musted me so I thought that maybe she was scared, so held her fairly gently. She wasn't having any of it and was striking out all over the place. When I got my Royal (he was very young) he tagged me a couple of times. He just tagged and immediately let go. He bit me twice and has never even so much as hissed at me since.

The Bali, however, managed to bite my hand. She didn't let go, she started chewing it (ouch!). I still held her and managed to keep my hand still until the shop owner got her off by distracting her. (I didn't want to pull my hand incase I hurt her mouth). So there I was, dripping blood, with probably the most beautiful snake I've ever held with the meanest streak I've seen in any snake yet. Since all she'd done to make me let her go hadn't worked, she then decided to try and constrict my arm to death. I'm happy to say she didn't succeed and I still didn't put her down. When she did go back in her viv, I sat on a stool watching her. She started to come up to the glass then, (still S'd up) but tongue flicking. I thought she was probably going to try and strike at me through the glass but she didn't. We just sat there looking at each other for about 10 minutes. As the shopkeeper knows us well, we were in the shop after hours which I'm glad about because anyone seeing the way she behaved may well have been put off snakes for life.

The asking price for her is £300 ($526) and because we are very good customers of the shop, they have said if I want her they will give me a discount (that was before I handled her).

It's a difficult situation I'm in as she is a truly beautiful snake and I would really like her. The only problem is her temperament. I don't want a snake that's going to be difficult - especially as she could grow to 11ft + and that could be a major problem. If I thought she would tame down, I would probably have her.

Any advice on this, especially from anyone who owns a similar snake would be greatly appreciated.

By contrast, I held her next door neighbour which was a young female normal Retic. She was as gentle as a kitten. Very inquisitive but totally at ease being handled. She was an equally beautiful snake, but I definitely don't have room for a snake that's going to grow huge or I would have bought her on the spot.

[nhherp]

Your are quite right, Balis are amoung some of the prettiest yellowheads. The striking silver tint contrast of pattern to yellow head of an adult is always eye-catching.
I have bred Balis twice now. The offspring are quite the opposite from their wild origin counterparts. I had one gentleman from, I believe the UK, contact me sometime ago who was working with Balis overthere. If I can find his name in my history I will try to let you know.
With retics, especially you first 2 or so, the first time buyery should always stick to true CBB specimens. WC can be a real handful, headache, and bloodletter. Even in Balis where the locality stays smaller then other yellowhead locales, a 13 ft mad female Bali is still alot to deal with. In most cases where first or second time buyers purchase a WC~CH=cb specimen, the owners patience runs out and the snake becomes a burden.
To bad you arent in the US, I still have males and females available from my 2005 clutch. Not to mention about half the price of what they appear to be asking where you are.

Notah

[fionak]

Thanks. You've got me tempted to book a flight the USA!

I was at the shop today and had another look at her (but didn't ask to handle her as the shop was quite busy). This snake is one I will take my time with and find out all I can about the species and their husbandry. I will not take on a snake unless it is going to be with me permanently. They become part of my family. At present I have 11 snakes, 2 Royal Pythons (BPs), 2 Boas, 1 Pueblan Apricot Milksnake, 1 Crimson Cornsnake, 1 Snow Cornsnake and 4 Anery Cornsnakes. I have just expanded my snake family again (well in about 6 weeks time as our kitchen is about to be refurbished and we're going to be all over the place for a few weeks as the contents of the kitchen will be all over the house). I've reserved a lovely brown and cream Cali King Snake. He (or she we're not sure yet but the shop owner is going to probe him/her for us before we collect him so I'll just call him him for the time being) has been there a long time. He always seems to be passed over for more brightly coloured snakes. He is about 4 1/2ft long and very friendly. He was totally at ease with me handling him. Every time I've gone up to the shop he comes up to the front of the viv. He did that again several ties today and gave me a look that said "Pleeeessse take me home with you". How could I resist LOL!!! So I've bought him. Hopefully if our kitchen refurbishment goes smoothly (there a lot of work to be done, walls coming down etc) he should be with us sometime in November. I can go to the shop anytime between now and then and handle him.

The Bali is still there and she is truly stunning but if ever a snake looked angry with the world, she does. Maybe she would settle down in a more stable environment and with regular, gentle handling but my deepest instinct tells me she may not. She is CB but they think she's CB to WC parents, so that may be where her attitude comes from.

I'm not going to rush any decision on this snake but take my time and learn as much as I can about them. At the moment I don't think I will get her, beautiful as she is, because she's a handful now and if she didn't lose the aggressiveness, then she could be downright dangerous when she gets bigger.

[nhherp]

CBB - Captive bred and born; are the only reliable intials to watch for anymore.
CB- captive born; most often means the animal was born or hatched in captivity, not a product of captive breeding.
CH- captive hatch;.. I would rather see this than CB, as it keeps the less aware buyer from confusing true CBB and 'cb' labeled animals.
WC- wild caught; as Im sure everyone knows by now.
Anymore the "CB" label has become more and more a marketing term, then anything else. With the push to raise awareness of how poorly WC specimens do in captivity in both health and demeanor, the application of 'CB' to young imports makes the buyer feel more secure in his purchase thereby turning a quicker profit.

[fionak]

Fortunately, the majority of snakes in the UK are CBB. My two Royals are CBB so are our two Boas and all our Cornsnakes as is my Milksnake. I've had them all since they were neo-nates or hatchlings. All of them are very docile, friendly snakes that are a joy to have. We handle our snakes on a regular basis, daily except for 2-3 days after they've eaten and when they're in shed.

Handling the Bali would more than likely be very difficult. At the moment I'm pretty sure we're not going to get her. I think she really needs to be with someone who's very experienced in that type of snake, and being realistic I'm used to docile snakes that I know I can handle that seem to enjoy being handled. I'm not ruling out getting a Retic in the future, but I'd prefer one that doesn't have the aggression that this one has for obvious reasons. Even the shop owner says she can be very difficult.

Having got an interest in the species now, I'll probably look out for one with a good temperament in the future, and probably a male.