Second female with infertile eggs

[galad]

This is the second time ive had a female having trouble with infertile eggs.

My set up is a big screened enclosure with a divider down the middle.
I have two uvb 5.0 bulbs on the females side along with a 75 watt tight beam basking light,
( I have perches set up 3,5,7 and 9 inches away from the basking light so she can find the most suitable temp for basking) All lights go off at night for a ten degree temp drop.

I mist then three sometimes four times a day, and she always drinks alot. The whole room always has a humidity level of around 75 - 85 %.

I have a 13 inch deep planting pot that is also 13 inches in diameter. It is a mixture of peat moss and sand. I give it a light misting daily so it is still damp enough to form a solid tunnel, but not to damp to dig into.

I was feeding her 10 to 12 crix aday for about three weeks into the gravid period, but Chris said that that might be too much. So i reduced the feeding to 5 to 7 crix aday, which get a light dusting of calcium daily, along with a light dusting of multi vitamin weekly.
Aside from crix she gets around 5 to 7 mealworms every three or four days. Along with a wc moth or butterfly as a treat.

Man do they love moths and butterflies. The beating of the wings just drives them crazy and they suck em back so fast making a big slurping sound. lol
The longest ive seen me female shoot her tounge was going for a white moth. I roughly measured it to be about 13 inches. Not bad for a 12 inch lizard lmao.

any help if i need it is greatly appreciated.

peace

ws

[Trace]

You do know that you need to put the female in with the male to make those eggs fertile right? If you don't follow this important step in the reproductive process, your chances of getting good eggs are zero.

Trace + Carl

[galad]

Thank you very much for that valuable information.

lmfao

Thank you for your help :medteeths

peace

ws

[Collide]

is that calcium + d3? a garbage pale works well fill it a few feet with dirt (i use sand and soil mixture but plain soil works fine) place a few sticks and a plant in there they cant get out and should start digging. when is she due to lay and what signs is she showing?

[galad]

yes it is calcium with d3. i dont know when she is due to lay eggs she has been gravid for 5 weeks now. She is still eating and drinking, i have reduced her feeding to 5 - 8 crix every second day.

I will try the garbage can method

peace

ws

[Collide]

she dosent need all the at d3 you have proper lighting, might be a good idea to pick up some d3 free calcium. be carfull when reducing feedign do it gradually sometimes its not good as the cham might be used to the large amount of food you have to do it gradually, and if she is not showing signs of laying is it possible she just isent gravid or can you feel eggs? its hard to tell with infirtal you dont have a matting timeline to go buy.

[galad]

well i dont think it is possible that she isnt gravid. She is showing gravid colours.

I dont think the calcium w/0 the d3 will do me much good now. And no i cannot feel any eggs inside of her. My last female looked like she was about to blow up right before she passed on from egg binding. Thankfully this female still has a big belly but it doesnt look uncomfortable like the last one did.

I would just take her to the vet if there was a good vet in my city. But unfortunatly I have been to both exotic vets in wpg and was not impressed with either of them. They did more harm then good.
And the fact that they are a 45 min drive away on the other side of the city just doesnt help.

thank you for your help collide it is greatly appreciated.

peace

ws

[Collide]

My new female witch mated with my guy ~28th is digging this morning which makes it ~28 days frome matting, when you know the mating time its soo much easier to know the approx dig date is. and this is the female that i though wasent gravid she was only "gravid colors" for a week after mating then went back to pink/orange so i thought mabey he dident do the job lol guess i was wrong although i was ready for it. its not always "text book" with colors, my old female panther was always in gravid colors ( mind you she had a reprodictive problem, never layed a egg and died at over 3years) bla bla bla lol

edit added pic

http://www.u4iainteractive.com/brandy/fatgirl/DSC03368.JPG

[galad]

awsome pic collide.

yea i dont know im really starting to worry now it deff. been over 28 days. :(
I hope she makes it but if not i dont think i will be buying anouther female for a while.
Unless i can find a proven breeder.

peace

ws

[dank7oo]

But the problem may not be (and most likely isnt) the fact that she isnt a "proven breeder". Not to sound rude, rather I'm being straight forward, but perhaps you bit off more than you could chew in the case of breeding chameleons, lacking in research and overall chameleon experiance.

Jason

[galad]

that remark is just uncalled for. and only made to try and piss me off.

Better luck next time.

Lack in research?? Are you mental. You have no idea who i am or how much i research chameleons. So don't talk about something you know nothing about.

why would you even chime in like that. ANything to make someone look bad i guess.



peace

ws

[dank7oo]

Im sorry thats the way you took my worldly observations Wade.

Jason

[galad]

what?? Did you even think before you wrote that? or after for that matter?

dont use my name like you know me either, obviously you don't

I told people before that I used calcium daily and no one said anything. The one probleme i did make in the bigining of her gravid stage was feeding her to much as chris anderson pointed out but he said nothing about me giving her too much calcium.
The over feeding is prob the same probleme I had with the first female. But again when I told people exactly how i was feeding her and such. no one said anything.

ws

[DragnDrop]

Cool it a bit here, please.
Galad, you asked for input, so dank7oo gave his take on the situation. He didn't do it in a nasty manner. Chams don't naturally get egg binding, there's always a reason for it. Either the female is prone to it (genetics maybe?) or it's husbandry. dank7oo used the husbandry angle, nothing more.

Now for my input, read or skip, doesn't matter to me.
Egglaying chams can be very picky about where they deposit their eggs. Your container is on the small side for a panther. Thirteen inches isn't much, to her it's not much more than a supersized coffee mug, not likely where she'd prefer to lay her eggs. If she must, she will probably decide to use it, but not all females will compromise like that. If the soil isn't moist enough or too moist they also won't lay their eggs right away, they'll try to wait a bit. The end result can be egg binding. I've read it often enough in cham forums and lists.
The ideal woud be a garbage pail half full of moist soil or soil and sand mix that will hold a burrow without collapsing. You can entice a female to dig in there by putting a plant in there, they really love digging around a root system (maybe the realize that plants need moisture, if the plant is alive and well, it must be getting the proper water, soil would be perfect for eggs). If you can't put her in a garbage pail, then use the biggest plant pot you can find, something suitable for a floor plant like ficus, anything bigger than 13 inches, maybe 24 would be more like it. Make sure she has 12" or more depth to dig too, they like to go down that far, sometimes more. And they like privacy while laying, too much peeking in can turn them off, stop digging altogether.

[galad]

what do you mean cool it?
If someone is going to insult my intelligence I am going to respond to it.

And yes she is already in a large rubber maid container, collide already pointed that out.

lmfao you guys crack me up.

peace

ws

[Collide]

what exacally are her indications of being close to laying? can you see/feel eggs? are you going by color? what is she doing that is worrieing you soo much?

[galad]

well she has her gravid colours and is getting fairly large. I was told by chris anderson not to try and feel for eggs just incase i might damage them. I gently ran my fingers along her side but did not feel any noticable bumps.

we are comming up on the 6 week mark thats why i am starting to worry. the fact that i lost one female to egg binding doesnt help much.

one probleme i have is i could not find a very tall rubber maid, so there is over a foot of peatmoss/sand and prob only about 8 to 10 inches of space for her to climb around.
She doesnt seem bothered by the move as she was eating and drinking the first day i put her in there.

thank you for your help collide.

peace

ws

[Collide]

IF she were close to laying you would see the eggs without any question unless the cham is fat that would hide it, are you sure your not confusing receptive or adult colors with Gravid sometimes they can look similar depending on the individual chameleon.

[galad]

black on orange is gravid is it not.

She was an overall pinkish brown before she turned the black and orange

she deff is pretty huge.

so im guessing that the lay bin i have her in is ok then?

peace

ws