Anyone Good with Garter Snake info? I need help...

[JKadikoff]

I recently noticed my Eastern Garter Snake, Jessi, has been acting kind of lazy, she's eating, but not as much. when she moves, its not much and it seems shes barely breathing, but she is very much alive. Another thing is, everytime she moves she tilts her head to the left. If snakes had ears, id guess an ear infection lol. I'm not sure whats wrong with her, I was thinking maybe she's just getting lazy, does anyone know exactly what this is? I've never seen anything like it before.

[JKadikoff]

im actually really starting to get worried, shes very slow... im scared she may be dieing. I feed her regularily and keep her water fresh, and she JUST got a brand new tank with brand new bedding... Normally when an animal is on their back, they'll roll over onto their bellies, right? she just lies there, and moves her head to sniff the air every now and then. She's tilting her head more now, and every now and then she has spasms. I checked her up and down, and there are no mites or ticks, but I did notice a few of her belly scales are a bit loose and starting to flake off. She's had that happen before, and nothing has happened, I'm not sure if that means anything or not. I'm worried about when I gently set her on her back, She moves, but doesn't make much of an effort to get back on her stomach. Maybe she has amebas? I'm not quite sure how to spell that, lol. Please, if ANYONE has any idea, I'd love to get some advice. Every vet I've talked to has no idea whats wrong. I'm worried I might lose her...

[JKadikoff]

if anyone could email me the info then, that would be nice. i'll check this as often as possible though...

[rrrrr]

Talk to the Blair animal hospital here in Ottawa. They have a herp specialist. I think the guy's name is Darren, but I'm not sure. If you call random vets, most of them wont have a clue since all they really see are dogs and cats. Good luck.

[JKadikoff]

my sister works at the blair animal hospital, i tried there. thanks though. I JUST found a half digested fish in the tank, i think she threw it up. shes acting crazy now, she'll roll around and look like shes trying to scream, I feel so bad, I think I'm going to put her down, she's obviously suffering... I think its an internal parasite.

[JKadikoff]

Septicemia: A wide variety of bacteria can cause generalized internal infections (septicemia). These bacteria may invade the body by way of wounds and abscesses or as a consequence of serious illness originally localized in the respiratory, gastrointestinal and reproductive tracts. Signs may be subtle or obvious and may include lethargy, anorexia, dehydration, and regurgitation of incompletely digested food, redness to the skin and scales, or bleeding from the skin. The help of an experienced veterinarian is essential n these cases. The outlook for these patients is always guarded to poor. The attending veterinarian may collect a specimen for bacterial culture and antibiotic sensitivity testing, as well as one or more blood samples to more accurately determine the extent of the disease, whether or not various internal organs are involved, and as a means of monitoring the patient's progress. Treatment involves use of injectable antibiotics and appropriate supportive care (fluid therapy, force-feeding, injectable vitamins, etc.). Treatment must usually be relatively long-term and periodic monitoring of the patient's status is essential to a favorable outcome.

I think I found the culprit. I've been doing the fluid therapy and vitamins already, I feel bad to force feed her. I guess it's gotta be done. I don't think I can afford the antibiotics right now though, which really sucks because I'm gonna miss her so much. I love her. I'm hoping maybe she'll make a huge recovery within now and the time I go to put her down, because if she dies, I don't think I can bare to get a new one...

[Ciddian]

Oh gosh!! I really wish you good luck.

[JKadikoff]

thank you, i feel so bad... she thre up another fish...

[DragonDreams]

I suggest that you take her to the vet for a vitamin B1 injection. Some garter snakes are predisposed to thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency. This is thought to occur if they are fed an exclusive diet of oily fish, which are rich in an enzyme called thiaminase. This enzyme will destroy thiamine, so even if vitamin supplement is added to the diet or drinking water, it will still be destroyed. The manifestations of this deficiency are of loss of co-ordination, head waving, balance disturbance, anorexia, weakness, and finally convulsions and death. An injection in time could save her. I hope this helps.

[JKadikoff]

wow, thank you so much! that really helps, i didnt know the fish diet had that much of an effect on her, it explains so much. Thanks, you helped me a lot, lets hope I can save her...

[DragonDreams]

Just keep in mind if you lose her, not even most of the vets know how to diagnose or treat snakes. All we can do is try our best. I'm sure you did the best you could with all the conflicting reports on the net on how to keep snakes healthy. Unforturnately, we usually have to learn from our mistakes and our pets pay the price. Good luck to both of you!

[lolaophidia]

I agree with Dragon Dreams that Thiaminase is a definite possibility. There are a few good sites that explain the problem and there are certain fish, like gold fish, that are notoriously bad. Here's one.

Understanding Garter Snakes through their Diet (http://www.gartersnake.info/articles/000256_understanding_garter.phtml)

Good luck with your snake.

[JKadikoff]

thank you, but i was too late. she died this morning. I feel terrible...

[DragonDreams]

You can't blame yourself, not even the doctors agree about what may have caused her death. From now on just be careful about feeding a completely or even mainly fish diet. Never feed goldfish, frozen fish are safer to feed. Mine are taught from birth to eat just about anything. I feed worms, f/t fish. chicken livers, pinkies, and even ground beef. Don't kick yourself for something most people don't even know about. Learn from your mistakes, and let your next snake benefit from what you've learned.

[thunder]

Guppies are an acceptable type of fish, don't have thiamine. I feed garters a mix of guppies, rodents (when they'll take them), baby crayfish (not hard yet), earth worms, and f/t phibs. It's important to freeze phibs, to kill bacteria/parasites. I've heard of feeding them slugs, but I haven't tried it.

[JKadikoff]

awesome, thanks for the tips ^^

[Ciddian]

**Edit** removed my post on the request of another member.