Size control possible for Retics?

[Bruce]

Morning,

I've decided to take the plunge and get back into Retics (no pun intended).
An area of concern, was ultimate size, as I'll be solely responsible for her care.
I spoke with a well known U.S. breeder and expressed my hesitation. He told me that he had a 3 year old Retic, that measured out to 8 feet. He was treating the snake as a male, ie. fed sparingly, small enclosure.
He checked her out and discovered her sex, fed her up, placed a male with her and received a small clutch of fertile eggs. Aside from the arguements concerning
food deprivation and habitat size, do you think a giant snakes ultimate size can be directly altered by manipulation of food intake and habitat size?

Chris

[steelnink]

Great question Bruce,
The size of the terrium will have nothing to do with the ultimate size of any given boid.[thats a common myth].
Many breeders will powerfeed females to get them to breeding size, earlier than they should.
So volume of food will alter rate of growth, but not the overall size.
If retics are your game, you'd be better off spending the extra $ and going with SD retics.
Besides the moral issue of underfeeding snakes, you don't want to be dealing with a retic thats constantly hungry, [ wicked feeding response].
Good luck.

[JimmyDavid]

Food deprivation obviously works. No meal, no growth. But i don't thinks that's too healthy.
As for habitat size, as far as i know there has not been any scientific work proving it right or wrong so far. Some say it's nonsense , others think there could be some truth to it. I don't know. Let's be realistic: OF COURSE it's not physically possible for the snake to outgrow the tank (duh), so what happens when she grows up to the tank limit? It's possible that her brain somehow realises that and shuts down growth hormone production as a survival mechanism. After all, is either that or death.

[rrrrr]

Aside from the arguements concerning
food deprivation and habitat size, do you think a giant snakes ultimate size can be directly altered by manipulation of food intake and habitat size?

Sorry but you cant really have this conversation without bringing in arguments about food deprivation. Enclosure size has no impact on size or growth. Food deprivation will slow growth, or in extreme cases permanently stunt growth. This is pretty much true for most animals including humans, but is absolutely NOT healthy. So, yes it can be done but not ethically, and not without shortening the life-span of nthe animal. Size is part of the package when it comes to retics. If you (not "you" per se...you in the general sense) cant deal with the size issues, then get a snake that doesn't grow big. Super-dwarf retic, or another species entirely.

Roy G

[JimmyDavid]

rrrrr, your post was correct, but not totally.

First: We can't say for sure anything about tank size effects without scientific backup, and since there is none so far, we can't say IT HAS NO IMPACT ON GROWTH. After all, it's impossible for the snake to outgrow the tank, the question is how does the snakes body react to that.

Second: the bad effects of short food intake are not a short life-span, in fact it has proven to be the key for a longer life in rats and monkeys. But it's still not right, i must agree.

Other than that, your post was ok for me.

[jjpython]

i have witnessed at a friends house a 6.5 foot guyana boa in a 33 gallon aquarium, touching all sides. that snake grew to touch all the sides he was alot smaller then that before going in the 33. no the snake is comfortable in her 75 gallon.

i dont know for sure that a snake will or will not grow depending on the size of the aquarium

[Bruce]

Thanks for the comments. I knew the answer before asking it but thought I'd throw it out there for comments. Even though the albino retics are beautiful, I think the SD are the way to go, until I can provide the proper care for the larger boys and girls.

Chris

[rrrrr]

About enclosure size...

People have made the claim that animals would stay small in smaller environments about all sorts of pets...snakes, fish, turtles, crocodillians etc... There is no evidence that this is true, and there is no scientific theory to explain why it would be. We know that turtles grow too big to live comfortably in small fishbowls.

Animals eat food. Food is full of nutrients necessary for healthy growth, and full of calories that get used as energy, or stored as fat or other materials within the body. Now where does the proximity of walls fit into any of this? It doesn't unless you take into account changes in feeding habits caused by stress related to the habitat. If you take that into account, you're not talking about enclosure size anymore, you're talking about quantity of food again. I guarantee that if I stuff you into a box and feed you Big Macs 9 times a day, you will continue to grow until the energy in 9 big macs was the same amount of energy you were expending on a daily basis. Larger bodies require more energy just to stay alive, so you would eventually hit an equilibrium point.

Snakes I would expect would do even better in small quarters than most other animals as many tend to be pretty inactive when not actively hunting, and many seem to experience less stress in small spaces.

You can disagree with me all you want, and you can say I have no proof, but the burden of proof is on you. If two snakes of the same species and size have the same activity level, and eat the same diet, what in the world makes you think the one in the smaller cage would end up smaller?

Anyway, I dont mean to come off overly aggressive, but this theory has generally been discounted as a myth for some time now, and it is dangerous misinformation to be passing along. It is one of the reasons red-eared sliders and iguanas are abandoned at such high rates. Pet stores tell people that RESs will stay small if you keep them in a 10 gallon tank. If you want proof this is not true, go to any reptile rescue and see how many turtles there are.

Roy G

[LdyDrgn]

We are constantly having to move animals into larger enclosures as they outgrow their smaller ones. Being in a small enclosure will not slow their growth whatsoever.

[JimmyDavid]

That's not the point LdyDrgn. The point is : What would happen if a "bad" owner (would have to be really bad) had no other enclosure and just wouldn't get the snake out of the same one?

[LdyDrgn]

It would still outgrow the enclosure. And you're right... only a really bad keeper would not think of the animal's well being and keep it in something too small.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Don't want a large snake, don't buy a large snake. That's like buying a fish and pasting feathers on it because you really wanted a bird.

[BoidsUnlimited]

I havent read any of the other posts, but if you are worried about size then Dwarf Retics are always a great option. Also, males tend to be smaller. I'm pretty postive that the size of the cage makes no difference in how big they grow also.

Thanks,

Don Meyer

[JimmyDavid]

OMG...LdyDrgn, Do you realise how silly it sounds, what you said (wrote)?? Think. Really...just think about what you wrote.
If the owner decides to keep the snake in the same enclosure as she grows...SHE WILL STILL OUTGROW THE ENCLOSURE. I dont think even Houdini tryed that one, hehe.

[rrrrr]

OMG...LdyDrgn, Do you realise how silly it sounds, what you said (wrote)?? Think. Really...just think about what you wrote.
If the owner decides to keep the snake in the same enclosure as she grows...SHE WILL STILL OUTGROW THE ENCLOSURE. I dont think even Houdini tryed that one, hehe.

If you can fit food in the box, and if it eats the food, it will grow. If you stop feeding it, it will stop growing, and start wasting away. If you take it out to feed it, good luck stuffing it back in. It all comes back to food my friend.

Roy G

[sc00t]

Yea if you put a burm in a 75 gallon tank or even a retic ITS GOING TO OUT GROW IT if you feed it on a normal rate I know first hand because one of my burms out grew a 75 gallon tank in 4 months with normal feeding and even if you could control its growth by keeping it in a smaller cage thats just mean to keep an animal in such a small enclosure, either have the room for a large snake or dont get it