Interesting converstation...am I wrong?

[BoidsUnlimited]

: yo
Dmeyer8706: hi
: whats up?
Dmeyer8706: nothing
Dmeyer8706: you
: I took my male burm to the carnival
Dmeyer8706: thats ********: why?
Dmeyer8706: stressful for the snake....people might get scared
Dmeyer8706: theyre not dogs
: nobody got scared
: everyone loved it
Dmeyer8706: i guarantee there were people who didnt appreciate it
: and it was cool the whole time
: I dont care
: I dont appriate poeples dogs
Dmeyer8706: well you should
: what the hell is the matter with you today
: your all PmS like or something
Dmeyer8706: excuse me?
Dmeyer8706: im telling you the truth man
Dmeyer8706: go post you took your burm on a forums
Dmeyer8706: see what they say
Dmeyer8706: to a carnival*
: I told poeple in the chat room
: and they said its a good way to get it use to people
: I am not there
: I dont go there anymore
Dmeyer8706: use to people?
: I go to a diffrant chat room
Dmeyer8706: a good way is to put a used shirt inside the cage
Dmeyer8706: not to a public place
: it was fine
: chill out
Dmeyer8706: i am chilled
: it was cool, and everyone who came up to me, loved the snake
Dmeyer8706: apparently im the one with PMS
Dmeyer8706: http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71259
Dmeyer8706: there...read it....
Dmeyer8706: "I think you should by a dog if you want a "pet" for those sort of things.

Think of a snake along the same lines as a pet fish. Would you cart the poor thing around with you everywhere just because its fun for you?

Hmmm....."

Dmeyer8706: theres a good quote
: "Thank you for your helpful reptiles. First off, I was asking a questions, I do not want a snake to simply take them places with me, "
: there is another good quote
: "when it comes to going outside.. i think the ability to stretch would make up for stress"
LpDu 7: so the problom is what?
Dmeyer8706: OuTSIDE
Dmeyer8706: not to a BLEEDPING carnival
: it was outside
: dude, it is not stressed
Dmeyer8706: lol
: if it was stressed it would be upset
Dmeyer8706: how would you know
: its not upset
Dmeyer8706: oh it tells you?
Dmeyer8706: thats sweet
: it did not hiss, not try to strike
: or nothing
: so taking it with me 1 place, that was 3 houses down from me
: was not a problom
Dmeyer8706: lol good for you
Dmeyer8706: just cause it doesnt hiss doesnt mean it isnt stressed
Dmeyer8706: do you know anything?
: I forgot your the bleedping expert,
: bleep you
Dmeyer8706: lol

So...am I wrong?

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

That' s crazy, poor snake in time may wind up with more problems then it needed.

I guess the snake talks to him and one day might say "hey, not today I don' t feel like going out", that will be the only time he might tell the snake is under stress.

But no your not wrong, he is opening up a whole set of problems for that snake.

[BoidsUnlimited]

Thank you.

I dont like to get on people, but he has been sort of annoying the past few days. He has two Burmese, ordered a pair of Retics, and just got an American Gator.

I had to say something honestly when he said that...

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

LMAO.

I hope he learns something soon........I definetly agree you are right.

D Meyer? Would that be Don Meyer?

C.

[Serpens]

OMG...I'm not judging (or at least trying not too), but that was just asking for trouble. What I'm afraid of is sometime down the road, when he takes a burm or retic out for a 'walk' and it finally does freak out and does someone some damage. Like, what's he gonna do if he's in the middle of a lineup for something, or a big group of kids runs up, and the snake goes apesh**? It's just far too risky and stressful for the snake.

Serpens

[BoidsUnlimited]

LMAO.

I hope he learns something soon........I definetly agree you are right.

D Meyer? Would that be Don Meyer?

C.

As do I...I just hope the snakes dont take a fall when he does.

And yes it is.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Lmao........I just read the quotes he quoted.....those are ridiculous I dont even see how those support him. I definetly agree with Jeff's quotes there too. I got fish, and I treat my fish and snakes just the same(well.....you know what I mean).

C.

[ReptiZone]

Not to worry Big snakes will do what they do best kill Stupid Ppl.

[JeffX]

What is wrong with that person? A carnival shouldn't even be an idea to take your snake out to.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Not to worry Big snakes will do what they do best kill Stupid Ppl.

LOL to funny :)

[ReptiZone]

Funny but it is the raw fact of the matter the moment you disrespect your python shoot your self save the troubles.

[gonesnakee]

People that like to take their snakes to every public event they go to are bad news for us real herpers. Everytime I see it I openly disrespect them in front of the same crowd they are trying to impress. I make sure the people they are trying to show off too know that I breed snakes for a living & that to have a snake out like that in public is a big NO NO. At a reptile or pet expo fine & then only at or behind ones table or in front of a group if you are doing a presentation for them. Not in public where folks don't expect to see them & futhermore can not be protected in the case of an incident. What if a little girl walked up to touch it right after handling some bunnies at the same fair? (seen it happen at the petstore before, more likely to happen in a huge crowd) That is just one example that could lead to EXTREME circumstances. This guy would not like to run in to me out in public with his snake(s) I can guarrantee it as I would go out of my way to make him look like the tool he is, that is unless of course he was just that uninformed & even then I would be informing him very bluntly anyhow in front of everyone. Also what about the snake itself? Very stressfull as already mentioned, plus all the other things it could possibly be exposed to such as pathogens, wrong temps etc. Walking around in a crowd with a large snake is only good for the persons doing it ego that it thats all. Obviously someone who lacks or requires attention & does not treat the animal with the proper respect that it should have. Some folks keep animals for all the wrong reasons, this guy sounds like one of them. Wonder if he will be stupid enough to take his Retics out in public when he gets them? Folks wonder why we are fighting bans, bylaws etc.? Thank guys like him for it, Nuff Said! Mark

[herps4ever]

I do not keep snakes but my brother does and i fully 100 percent agree on how irresponsable that guy was and is , hell i wouldn't even take my dog to a carnval let alone take a reptile, that's just asking to stress the snake out and asking for an awful accident

[SCReptiles]

If you guys know your history, then you will know that the carnival is where exotic herpetology began in this country. Early carnivals and the snake charmer sideshows where the first to import burms (or Indian pythons) to the US. Seems odd to me, that we now think is irresponsible for this guy to take his snake to a place that has had them for 150 years. I am sure the carnival has supervision and security. If there was a problem, I think they would have asked him to leave. They probably viewed him as free entertainment. As always, I think we need to live and let live. It’s his snake. If he wants to take it to the carnival and the carnival doesn’t mind….i see no problem.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Screptiles...I see your point, but if something should happen because of the snake to the public. The carnival will not support him, yet if they accepted him there as free entertainment then they kind of let everyone think he is part of the carnival as well. To me its like going to the zoo and seeing someone walk a tiger in the middle of the crowds, I would assume he is friendly and belongs to the zoo. I would even believe if someone got hurt that its the zoos responsibility because it happened there and they allowed someone to walk with an animal in there area. I know this is going extreme, but since you used the carnival theme and if they allowed this guy to walk in there with his snake then someone has to take responsibilty to either stop or support the consiquence.

But like it was stated above by gonesnakee, the lack of responsibility into the public where this can only have negative affect on bans and laws and such. It may be his snake but its the actions that later affect it and the communities. If anything he loses the animal and gets a fine while the long term toll is much greater.

Just my 2 cents.

[BoidsUnlimited]

SCreptiles: That may be true, and it is. But lets take a trip to a carnival now adays. How many large snakes do you see there? None....

Theres no reason to take your snake anywhere besides the vets, or out for handling.

BTW, excellent example Boas. It is the same exact thing, just a different setting.

Point is theres no backing him up, theres ust no reason for it.

[SCReptiles]

Give me an example of what could happen? If he were walking around with a rattlesnake, I see your point. A burm that is small enough to carry around all night does not have lethal potential. Worst that can happen is a bite.

[SCReptiles]

Last carnival I was at had burms, boas, anacondas, and a few others that I don’t recall. I talked to the old guy that was in charge of them. Very nice man.

[BoidsUnlimited]

A bite? Is that all? I mean....definately not too bad. Ecspecially if it were to a small child whose parents were pretty uptight and decided to call animal control. Or it also wouldnt be too bad if the snake nailed a kid in the face and caught some of the eye.

WHY take the risk?

[SCReptiles]

Because it’s his snake and he wanted to take it. The carnival didn’t object, so he had every legal right to do so. How many people you know that have been bit in the eye? You could say that it could grab a baby from it’s mother’s arms and constrict it to death. Sure, that COULD happen, but it’s not going to.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Yeah a simple bite can cause an crazy amount of hassle, especially now with dog bites happening more and more often. People are accepting of dog because they are just around, anyone can have one and walk it anywhere. But the fear of reptiles and large snakes is not so accepting if one should strike out and bite someone let alone a child where the paremnts for most part will flip out and fear that the snake maybe be venomous and so on. We all have seen the news when a snake gets mistaken for this and that. The public in general are not well informaed about snakes so just about any can be dangerous and venomous and so on, they just don' t know. We (the whole cummunity) on the other hand are accepting because reptiles are not something we fear (although with hots I like seeing them behind the glass - lol). Like I said before why stir up public and there fears with a situation that is not really for education but more to ego entertainment.

:)

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Because it’s his snake and he wanted to take it. The carnival didn’t object, so he had every legal right to do so. How many people you know that have been bit in the eye? You could say that it could grab a baby from it’s mother’s arms and constrict it to death. Sure, that COULD happen, but it’s not going to.

Legal right I would have to disagree with that because in most cases I think the authoroties would challenge the idea of having the snake in public without a licence of exhibition or something of that sort.

The idea of say 2 parents with a child and maybe a camera and an eager snake owner to exhibit his animal - screams lots of problems. Not saying that is the case or that was what happened, but if you get 1 person asking to take a photo and that snake chooses its timing "whammo" it can happen it has happened. So why even take the chance let alone allow that option in the first place being out in the public.

[SnakeyeZ]

Fact of the matter is, MORE people are afraid of a snake than a dog. You can often predict how a dog is goin to react to a certain situation alot faster than seeing a snake react in a similiar scenerio. Things happen, why take the chance..this kinda stuff that ends up going badly for whatever reason, makes front page and makes the rest of us look REAL bad. Laws will get harder....and some of us may lose certain animals to by-laws cracking down on a few peoples error's.

Maybe nothing happened this time....but who's to say nothing will happen next time? or the time after?. Alot of us seem to forget that these are animals, they may seem "tame" to your standards..but there all, wild-unpredictable animals.

There snakes.....not Bling Bling that you wear, and flaunt around your neck..

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

SCreptiles, like has been highleted before, its garbage like this that causes us to be fighting bans, bylaws, etc... against reptiles! Stupid people doing stupid things, which can cause stupid mistakes to happen. It doesnt get any stupider!

Also, I dont understand why you think that just because this is his snake, he can go ahead and cause stress to the animal? Yeah, thats a moral issue, but seriously, the two sides are black and white, and probably 99.99% of people are on the side where you shouldnt do that. If he even gives a ____ about his animal, then he shouldnt be doing that.

Also, you said something about the snake being small enough for him to carry around all day? That means its just a simple bite? Give me a break, I could haul around a 80lb burm around all day, thats definetly big enough to do more damage then just a bite.

C.

[SCReptiles]

Ok, so even though you do not own the snake nor the carnival you feel you have the right to make the decision that the snake should not be there?

[SCReptiles]

What a smoldering load of monkey crap. If that animal weighted 80 pounds, he would wore out within minutes of trying to carry it thru a carnival. And what stress? Burms are the toughest pythons in the world. That thing probably downed a rabbit within minutes of being returned home. =)

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

No my opinion on this is not like that, its more a concern to the animal, public and the already crazy rules we live in because of situations like this.

[SnakeyeZ]

Personally, doesnt matter where it is...its in a public place. Mall-carnival-mcdonalds-water park.

Who cares really if he had permission too...or no one said anything about it...

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

I dont give a ____ whether the burm weighed 5lbs or 80lbs, the point is it can still cause more damage than a little bite! I was struck and constricted by a 600g kinsnake in a pet-store, that would scare the crap out of 99.9% of people at that carnival, and I bet the burm was not a 2ft burm either, more than a bite. People scared and running, lawsuits, someone hurt, even my 6lb can give a Hell of a strong constriction, etc...

Ok, so even though you do not own the snake nor the carnival you feel you have the right to make the decision that the snake should not be there?

Show me where I said that?

Im simply saying that I dont think he should be stressing the animal out like that.

Make makes you know that burms are the toughest snakes? Thats no always true, every animal is different, and I guarentee you, being 'taken to the carnival' STILL CAUSES STRESS TO THE ANIMAL! Do you honestly thing it wants to or enjoys being at the carnival?

I dont know, maybe your snakes enjoy watching movies with you...

C.

[BoidsUnlimited]

Honestly, in MY opinion there is no need for it. Nor do I find it appropriate nor very reasponsible to take the animal out into a public area, whether it be a "snake carnival" or a park. Its just not neccesary at all.

That is MY opinion, apparently you Chuck, have another. Which is fine, we are all certainly entitled to our own opinions. That is what makes this world so interesting.

But when you weigh out the pros and the cons, there are just too many bad thingst hat CAN go wrong, and are NOT worth taking the risk.

Thanks,

Don Meyer

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Great post Don.

C.

[SCReptiles]

I am not saying it was a wise thing to do. I don’t take my snakes anywhere unless we are invited. I am just saying….he owns the snake, and the place he took it didn’t mind him being there, so he was within his rights to take it and we have no grounds to say other wise.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Yeah, im not disputing that, but I think everyone agrees that it shouldnt be done because the cons very much outweigh the pros.

C.

[BoidsUnlimited]

Yes I totally understand where your coming from. Although I'm not trying to be rude...but if you read the conversation...it doesnt say that the carnival was okay with it. For all we know he could have gone, and had been sent home after 15 minutes.

But I say we leave it at this, theres no need to make this into a big thing. Opinions where spoken, and respected as well.

Thanks,

Don Meyer

[galad]

Screptiles... I do not see your point.
Just because the carnival is where exotic herpetology began your country, i don't think it gives some jerk the right to parade around his animal to show off in an uncontroled environment. Like it was said before what if a kid comes up smelling like a rabbit and takes a bite to the face or something? What happens then?
It might not be so bad with small snake but what if he tries the smae thing with a retic?

Sure the snake charmers and such have had these traveling herp shows for 150 years but it doesnt mean they aren't stressing their animals out.
There could be some that treat there animals very well but there are prob just as many that keep their animals in horrible conditions. All crammed together in one container to save on space.
Isn't shipping of animals stressfull to them?

ws

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

For all we know he could have gone, and had been sent home after 15 minutes.

Thats what I was thinking, although I didnt want to make any assumptions about the conversation.

Edit- I agree with Galad.

C.

[BoidsUnlimited]

Thats what I was thinking, although I didnt want to make any assumptions about the conversation.

Yeah, that is the entire conversation. So anything left out, unfortunately has to be assumed.

[cheech]

i don't understand the debate here? there is not one good thing that could happen but MANY things that could go wrong to either the snake, public or public views of snakes. i have never seen any snakes at a carnival in my 20 years of going and i bet there is a reason for that. and i doubt when the snakes where there 150 years ago they enjoyed it either. if this guy wants attention tell him to tattoo his face or something not stress snakes trying to get it. hopefully one of his snakes does'nt have to be taken away after biting someone for him to get the message. if snakes die of being over stressed being shipped in a dark warm box then i really doubt they enjoyed being carted around on somebody;s shoulders. seing as how this is completly revered of what snakes have done for millions of years in the wild. and just beacuse you own an animal does not give you the right to mistreat them in anyway.hopefully he will try to show of his new aligator and that will be the end of him.

[SCReptiles]

Just because the carnival is where exotic herpetology began your country, i don't think it gives some jerk the right to parade around his animal to show off in an uncontroled environment.

This is an accurate statement, however, the United States constitution does grant this jerk the right to parade it around. He was within his rights, up until the point the carnival asked him to leave. The internet conversation is all we have to go on and I see nothing that indicates he was asked to leave at anytime. He enjoyed himself and several people at the show enjoyed seeing the snake.

i don't understand the debate here?

Well, I guess you do not understand most things. The debate is, these other Democrats think they have the right to tell this guy he can not take his snake to a carnival, which had no problem with the animal being there. I pointed out that since we do not own the snake or the carnival, we do not have a right to tell him what to do. And of course, they think I am wrong and everyone should only treat their animals in the way they would allow. Understand now? i could maybe draw you a picture?

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

SCreptiles, me a democrat....:)

I understand your point, and maybe you understand mine. Either way its only a discussion.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

these other Democrats think they have the right to tell this guy he can not take his snake to a carnival

Again, WHERE?! You never answered my original question of where I said this, several posts back. Now you pluralized it and I am pretty sure of two people whom you are directing this comment to, one being myself since you made a similar comment to me like this back in the thread.

So tell me, WHERE did I say that, I already explained we were argueing morality issues and no-one(at least not me) said that he didnt have the right to do that.

C.

[SCReptiles]

I understand your point, and maybe you understand mine. Either way its only a discussion.

Yeah, you and I are in accord that is was a bad idea to take it there. I am just of the mindset that we, as Americans, have every right to pursue bad ideas when we want to.

[SCReptiles]

CHRISANDBOIDS14, nothing I have said it directed at any one person. Chill brother.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Hey man,

Im chilled, its just that you made a comment that had the same point and suggestion earlier in the thread, which you DID direct at me, and you repeated this and it remided me that you still never answered my question earlier in the thread, and I didnt think you should be suggesting that again in the thread since you obviously cannot give a source of that.

C.

[BoidsUnlimited]

[QUOTE=SCReptiles]which had no problem with the animal being there. QUOTE]

Okay I'm trying to keep a calm discussion and all....but WHERE did he say they DIDNT have a problem with it? He didn't say he did, nor did he says that they DIDNT.

The point is, theres no reason to do so. And I didnt tell him he cant or isnt allowed. I told him it wasn't a smart choice.

Please...make sure you read the conversation more thouroughly before you post.

Its all good that you have your opinion ont his subject....but lets make sure we have our facts right before you go off saying that he was allowed//the carnival had no problem//we are telling him he cant take it.

Thanks,

Don Meyer

[SCReptiles]

: nobody got scared
: everyone loved it
Dmeyer8706: i guarantee there were people who didnt appreciate it
: and it was cool the whole time.

It was from these words that I gathered no one asked him to leave. And if they did, then his right to have the snake there ended, and he should have taken it home. However, I am pretty sure he was not asked to leave and well within his rights. He earned the money to buy that snake and he pays for the snake’s up keeping. If he wants to take it out, that is his prerogative. Now everyone keeps crying about stress to the animal. This is a Burmese Python, not a Coral Snake. They do not succumb to stress. Anyone here every seen a burm die from stress? That snake was fine and probably ate 2 hours after he took it home.

[BoidsUnlimited]

Really? So if I told you I just produced a successful clutch of Timors you would just assume it were true? And you know he bought this snake? And that he pays for it also? Thats nuts because I know for a fact that he did not, and he does not pay for himself. His dad is the only reason he has this snake. The kid is jobless, that would suck if his dad realized that he needs to take responsibility for his own animals and just cut him off with food and such.

Stop assuming...as the saying goes..."to assume makes and @$$ of YOU and ME."

Apparently there is nothing I can say that will be correct...so I am done trying to express why I found this to be a problem.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

I agree with Don 100%.

Also, SC, so what that overall burms tend not to get as stressed as other snakes? Every animal is different! You and I are different. Im sure if someone threw you over their shoulder, you would react differently then if I got thrown over someones shoulder! Even though overall, most humans would react in a similar fashion, we are all different! And the point is not that it could die from it, its stress in general!

Think of it this way, do you like seeing your friends sad or stressed out? Im guessing your response is no, then WHY would you want your snake to be stressed?! Sure, we all agree it was within his rights to take the snake to the carnival, but we all agree that it shouldnt have been done.

Also, your making alot of assumptions that shouldnt be made because sometimes you are backing yourself up on assumptions, on things that are not clear or known.

C.

[SCReptiles]

If you had this info all along, you should have presented it before now. All I have to go on is the conversation that was posted. I draw my conclusions from that, not the same as assuming. He made statements calling it his snake, so it’s reasonable to think he bought it and cares for it. If his father gives him the money to do so, doesn’t really matter…he still does it and has the right to take his snake places so long as the place does not mind.

[Rikki]

Poor snake, should never have been in such a situatin. You were right to make such replies.

[cheech]

Because I have an opionion who are you, trying to say I don't understand most things??That makes no sense. In some statements you say because you are american you have the right to do what you want but in others you say we have no right to make comments of what someone is doing? I think you should stop contridicting yourself and read your previous posts before writing new ones. If I see someone say hit there dog I could'nt care less if I own the dog or the property it happened on I am definatly going to say something. Why did you ask if I wanted you to draw me a picture??It seems to me you are the only one trying to defend this person and mabye there is a reason for that. And people clearly arn't telling this guy to do anything seeing as we don't know who he is. And please I would prefer you not draw me a picture. This is a reptile forum not preschool or art school.Also, how can you say this snake was not stressed??Have you ever even meet or seen this snake?Its just like some dogs are afraid of lightning and some arn't,some cats are afraid of water and some arn't. So until you at least see the snake don't try and tell people what this perticular snake likes and dislikes.

[Dark_Angel_25]

I am not saying it was a wise thing to do. I don’t take my snakes anywhere unless we are invited. I am just saying….he owns the snake, and the place he took it didn’t mind him being there, so he was within his rights to take it and we have no grounds to say other wise.


Who says the Carnival didnt mind? He may have hidden the snake when he entered... nowhere did he say they knew he was there. Because he was on their property, I am sure they WOULD NOT allow him to bring it in because then the CARNIVAL would also be responsible IF something DID happen and someone decided to sue.....

[K1LOS]

well, it's definately not a bright idea, but i kinda agree with screptiles on this one. Arguing that he may get fined or charged for this is not going to get you anywhere, it was his choice, and he has probably already thought of that, and he did it at his own risk. That's just not going to help your point. Our only real arguement is how it effects the snake. And yes they did keep large snakes a long time ago, but how many do you think lived, and in what conditions were they in? I am quite sure they did not have a great life. Yes herpetoculture has advanced quite a bit since then, but so has the way we keep elephants and large cats, and shows like that still keep them in poor conditions too.

Yes, the carnival would be liable in that they never stopped it, and you are right, people very well could think he is actually employed there and payed to bring this snake through the crowds. "Why else would somebody bring a snake to a fair?" they would all be thinking, and its a good question! The little snakewhisperer would also be liable for obvious reasons. So the more i think about this, i am starting to think i hope i bump into him and do get bitten! I can sue the carnival and him, and have his snake taken away! yay for me!

Geoff

[LandonBP]

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?p=508987#post508987

Would someone please explain to that person that I am not the person who did this. She is saying I am the person who took the snake to the carnival, I dont even have a burmese python. I just dont want you guys to think I would do such thing. I have no idea where she would think this is me..

[Dark_Angel_25]

It was from these words that I gathered no one asked him to leave. And if they did, then his right to have the snake there ended, and he should have taken it home. However, I am pretty sure he was not asked to leave and well within his rights. He earned the money to buy that snake and he pays for the snake’s up keeping. If he wants to take it out, that is his prerogative. Now everyone keeps crying about stress to the animal. This is a Burmese Python, not a Coral Snake. They do not succumb to stress. Anyone here every seen a burm die from stress? That snake was fine and probably ate 2 hours after he took it home.


Well SC, I must say I am NOT a Democrat.. not even American.. lol..
But you sure do take the liberty of making ALOT of assumptions in the above post...

1) However, I am pretty sure he was not asked to leave (maybe carnival people didnt know he HAD the snake...)

2) He earned the money to buy that snake and he pays for the snake’s up keeping. (not necessarily.. could be his parents that did, and if he is a minor (cant remember his age) then THEY now would ALSO be responsible if something did happen.. Parents may not have known he took the snake either..)

3) This is a Burmese Python, not a Coral Snake. They do not succumb to stress. Anyone here every seen a burm die from stress? ( yeah cause you can diagnose stress, and we ALWAYS perform autopsies on dead Burns... sheesh :dumb: )

4) That snake was fine and probably ate 2 hours after he took it home ( I see and this is your closing point... so DID it eat???)

[Dark_Angel_25]

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?p=508987#post508987

Would someone please explain to that person that I am not the person who did this. She is saying I am the person who took the snake to the carnival, I dont even have a burmese python. I just dont want you guys to think I would do such thing. I have no idea where she would think this is me..



I apologize Landon.. I thought because you were the original poster, that you were trying to prove your point to Boids Unlmtd. Obviously you were trying to prove him wrong, whomever he was...
Sorry

[LandonBP]

I apologize Landon.. I thought because you were the original poster, that you were trying to prove your point to Boids Unlmtd. Obviously you were trying to prove him wrong, whomever he was...
Sorry
Thank you, I am sorry for acting like a Jerk. Ive had a bad day.

[JAdkins2451]

Well this is interesting, but SCReptiles is right its his snake and he can do what he wants and who are we to tell him other wise. Do I belive it was a smart thing to do? No I dont, would I do it, No I wouldnt. But if he belives its ok then how do we stop him.

Jamie

[Rikki]

I think he can do what he wants, but can you imagine how stressful it would be for the snake?

[V.hb]

personally, I would be far more concerned about the condition of the snake. If its fat-healthy and completely comfortable being in a crowd, I dont see a problem with it. I see people walking around with their snakes and enlightening people about them and somewhat teaching people NOT to be afraid. People are afraid of my dog, and my dog could bite, does that mean I dont walk it? I say if the animal is healthy and not "freaking" out, theres nothing wrong with what he did.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

Everyone has great points and opinions and that is what makes these discussions very informative. In short everyone is right to a degree and it is still his snake to do as he wishes. Below are key points with a short view.

Carnival - if they allowed him in seeing the snake they are responsible to a degree for public safety.

Snake owner - totally responsible for public safety.

Stress - comes in all forms and in my opinion its not only categorized as stress, but possible illness, dangerous actions, infection and mishap.

Rights - he is in his right I agree with that but so are the people who attend the carnival, thinking and believing they are in no harm. That being said if people assume seeing him there with this snake in the area of the carnival will also assume he is part of the carnival. I am all for rights as SCreptiles stated but this snake owner is not the only one with them.

Problems - like I said before maybe nothing would or could happen, but in public at a carnival with mass amounts of people and especially children with there curiosity peeked and parents with cameras...anything can happen. The fact he took the snake to the show means and screams "attention" and with the above said - how could he refuse a child wanting a photo with a snake that is not in a cage? Since this was not mentioned in the chat and I have seen people get asked to take pictures with there dogs, then what would stop a snake photo.

Injury to public - it can and has happened before, maybe not this situation. But all it takes is letting your guard down after a few sessions like this and its front page news.

Public protection - this comes in at least 2 ways, 1 - the owner must be responsible enough to protect themselves, the animal and the public from an uncertain mishap no matter the size and situation that may happen (this is why dogs must be led on leashs and some even must be muzzled - I love dogs I am only using this as an example). 2 - the outcome of a mishap has a longer and more complicated result being the news and then the crazy laws that come because of this reckless action. It does not take much to have bad results walking a snake in public, only 1 person with enough fear can blow it beyond what really happened and what they saw (example - everyone has seen boas called burms and vica versa and so on).

Again he is in his right to have the snake and walk it, but does that action really help (the snake, him, or the communities as well as the public) unless it was a educational show I do not think it does. So why parade a "right" that could easily be taken away. :)

[RB420]

Ok, so he has the right to make the decision whether or not to ignore any laws about the issue (if there are any) and bring it to the fair. Do you know how uncomfortable snakes make some people? A lot of the time we forget because of how much we love these creatures that other people are deathly afriad. Its just plain inconsiderate to the other people at the fair. If i was there and my kid or girlfriend got bit, i tell you i'd be right pissed that the jerk brought the snake to a public place. And just because no one at the fair saw him or said anything it doesn't mean that the owner of the carnival would allow it. most carnival employees couldn't give two craps because its not there *** on ethe line if something goes wrong. People who own snakes to be cool or whatever, own snakes for the wrong reason in my opinion. A$$holes like that are one day going to one day make it impossible for us responsible keepers to own anything but corn snakes. But you are right he hs every right to ignore all those factors and not to mention the stress it causes the snake, and just go ahead and do it anyways.

[SCReptiles]

Because I have an opionion who are you, trying to say I don't understand most things??That makes no sense.

Absolutely not. If you have a different opinion then mine and can support that opinion with facts, then we can debate issues for days. I made that statement because you joined into a clear debate over ownership rights verses animal rights and made the ridiculous statement “i don't understand the debate here?” So, if you can’t understand this debate, then it appeared to me that you were simple, so maybe a picture could help you understand. I was just trying to help.

Now, as for the debate, its good to see a few more clear thinkers have joined in. those opposed to him taking the snake are citing dangers to the snake and public. That is all well, I concur with you. My point is that in the United States, unless the owner of the Carnival asked him to leave, he had every right to be there. If you want to debate me, address that point. Stop beating the dead horse….i agree that he should not have done it. My point is, that it is his right to do it and we have no business telling him that he can’t.

I don’t agree that taking a burm into public will harm the animal. I see no difference in this and the educational shows we do with snakes all the time. I have had Zeus (my male brum) since 1990. He has been in 100’s of classrooms, nature centers, programs, plays, movies, and even wrestling rings. He is almost 16 years old now. He feeds like a champ and breeds every time I give him the opportunity to. Being around people does not stress this animal and that is typical of this species. That is one of the reasons they are so popular. Also one of the reasons they were popular in the original carnivals. Don’t you recon it was much easier to get boas and anacondas? Of course it was, but you rarely ever see them in the 150 snake charmer photos. It’s always Indian Pythons, because they fair well under those circumstances.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

SCreptiles - Good reply, but I think the biggest reason burms were in carnivals were their size...aside from what you said, its size that brings in the crowds or the mystery of the animal. Zues your animal may show signs of being comfortable as you see it because its becoming routine, same thing as having a nippy snake (regular handling for most part changes that characteristic) - some don' t but most do (at least in my experience).

Take these factors and weigh them on scale between you and this other burm owner. You have the experience in both having the animal, knowing its status, health and such....then add you do shows and get this burm accustumed to people. Also I think you deal with "hots" so your reflex factor is fine tuned and you can predict a snakes action pretty well or your collection would have taken care of that - lol. But seriously these are all reasons why you feel strong about your opinion. But these are also reasons why some of us think this other guy does not know what he is doing.

Add also the already mentions laws and fears people have and its a bad situation. I mean maybe nothing will ever happen so luck is on his side, but for the people who are fighting the "right - legal right - rights" debate they also must be heard because most of these crazy laws we live in are because of people who either test people' s rights or just feel they can do anything without thinking out the future response. I am rather nuetral on this I mean we already agree he has his rights, but I also feel so does everyone as well. Once one' s rights over rides anothers then its just not right.

Well this discussion is fun :)

[cheech]

Since you ostensibly know all about me you would also know many people don't mean every thing they say literally to the word. BY me saying "I don't understand the debate here" I was clearly embelishing my point as to my opionion. For the simple fact that i can clearly read and i posted on this debate means I apprehend the debate.By you saying I don't understand most things and that im simple makes your statments extremly ignorant ( look up the defintion of ignorant before people start to cry about me using the word). So since I don't agree with all your opinions and you don't agree with mine you have decided to say I personaly am basically dumb?It just makes me glad this is the internet and I could'nt care less about your conception of me. Thankfully I don't have to deal with people who denounce people they don't know for things that are clearly untrue in real life. So please stop making comments of me and go back to your carnival debate that you feel so strongly about.I did not realize by me posting my opionion on a public forum that people where going to try and get there psychiatry degree trying to adjudicate my IQ.So if you could mabye stop trying to castigate or offend me mabye you can get back the my question.You have not answered how since you are american you have the right to do what you want but at the same time you don't have a right to make comments of what someone is doing?

[Ptindy]

I agree with Tony and Mark. I don't like the idea of him bringing his snake to the carnnies, very f-ing stupid and he obviously has no respect for his herps, just wants to boost his ego like Mark said. But at the same time I can't do anyhting about it and in the end it was his snake, but if that thing did harm the public, we will lose more threads in the fabric that lets us keep reptiles all together. If stupid people like this continue doing this something is bound to happen and things are just going to get worse. The snake was probably mad as a skunk and just wanted to strike at everything just too much stimuli around for him. I would like to meet this guy just like Mark, just to tell him how f-ing stupid he is. Tell the guy I said good luck with his pair of retics and new american gator if he is this irresponsible, he'll be in the news one day as a victim of his own stupiditiy.

Mike