calcium supplements... how much is enough?

[babysweet]

I have a question to pose... is there any information out there regarding exactly how much calcium supplement to provide growing cresties?

All the information says "add herp-cal to every meal" and they suggest make sure to add enough, but not too much. But there are NO guidelines as far as just how much to add.

Also, most people say more for babies and juvies, and breeding females, and less for adult males... but again, no amounts.

So, for those of us starting out, how much would you add (ballpark, obviously) to say, a tablespoon of fruit/yogurt mix?

Kim

[hotz]

I've been wondering the same thing. Perhaps another question to ask is what problems can arise from giving them too much calcium? Can they just flush out the excess and we can slightly over-do it and not worry? I have a couple of females in with a male and they will all be getting the same diet so I want the females to get enough but not have problems with the male getting too much.

[DragnDrop]

For cresties (and other Rhacs) who eat mostly the yogurt/fruit mix and barely touch crickets, I don't dust the crickets and other bugs. They get their supplements in the fruit. Since they almost always eat every drop of fruit, I know how much they've gotten. For those who eat bugs as easily as fruit, I alternate, sometimes I go long stretches of supplements in fruit only, no dusted bugs. Other times I'll do the dusted bugs, nothing in the fruit. All told, they do get supplements, but not in and on every food item.

Just how much to use is the tricky part. Dusting bugs works if they're eaten relatively fast, before they groom the dust off (that's why I prefer to supplement via fruit, no grooming happening there ;) Just lightly dusting the bugs to get them a layer of Ca and/or vitamins is enough. You don't have to coat them to the point where they look like moving snowmen. Since there's always the grooming factor to worry about, I would dust the bugs every feeding IF the geckos don't eat the supplemented fruit very readily. If you see them finishing the crickets before the Ca has rubbed off, then you could probably do with dusting twice a week. For babies and females during breeding season I would probably still dust 3 times weekly. It's so hard to tell if they've gotten a 'full' supply of supplements via bugs that I really am glad I can supply it in the fruit, I know it's being eaten.

Too much Ca and/or Vitamin D3 can be detrimental, lead to a form of MBD just like not enough CA and D3. Try to use supplements with D3 in either the Ca or vitamins, not in both. The vitamins I use don't have D3, it's in the Miner-all I that they get. Also, if the dosage of D3 is high, try mixing plain Ca with it to lower the D3 per feeding. Or play it even safer and supply UV-B via natural sunlight or fluorescent bulbs.

Most people overdo the supplements, supplying great gobs of the stuff to the geckos. To put it in perspective, consider the example given in the Rhac book by de Vosjoli, Fast and Repashy: How big is a multi-vitamin pill for an adult human? Now scale that back to gecko size, how much does that translate to for their size? That's why the advice is to 'dust' the food, not ice it with the supplements. If supplying it via fruit, then take a tiny pinch of it per gecko, maybe twice a week if they eat the whole serving, if they leave some, try 3 times a week to make sure they get enough.

Part of it is also observation. You can't really say 'this amount' is perfect. Some need more now because they're growing or making eggs, others need less because they're just coasting for a while between growth spurts. You have to observe your geckos, make sure they're growing and eating properly. If you notice the beginnings of tail kinks in young geckos or breeding females, then increase the Ca/D3. If they're all happy and healthy eating normally and there's no problems that you can see, then chances are you've got the supplements right, don't fiddle with them just for the sake of trying somebody else's routine.

[eddiezahra]

this is a little off topic, but dragondrop i bought a gecko from you at the show (thank you btw) but im giving it the fruit mixture which was posted on this site a while ago, plus dusted crix 2wice a week. the only problem is i dont think it's eating the mix, and im afraid that its not gettin enough food, the weight looks good, but when i take the mix out every other day, it looks untouched

[DragnDrop]

Originally posted by eddiezahra
im giving it the fruit mixture which was posted on this site a while ago, plus dusted crix 2wice a week. the only problem is i dont think it's eating the mix, and im afraid that its not gettin enough food, the weight looks good, but when i take the mix out every other day, it looks untouched

It's possible he's not eating the fruit if he's getting enough nutrition from the crickets.
It's also possible he's eating some of the fruit but you don't see it. If the fruit is runny enough, the little tongue prints can be gone in no time, making it look like it's untouched. Also, if you made the recipe I use, it's quite filling from what I can tell, they don't eat near as much of it as they would commercial fruit baby food. If you are serving up a big portion, it might look untouched even though he's eaten his fill.

To be honest, I can't recall which one you got (sold too many the last few months to remember who got which one). He/she would have been 2 months old at least so should be at least 3 by now if you got him at the April show. If he is 3-4 months, he might be heading into a growth spurt and more interested in bugs which probably have more protein.

Even though Rhacs in general are supposed to be fruit lovers, some individuals would rather eat bugs and there's nothing you can do to change their minds. I have a gargoyle like that - never saw him eat fruit, strictly crickets (I know gargoyles are more inclined to eat insects but they do love their fruit too, this guy just won't even taste any fruit I offer him).

As long as your crestie is eating, even if it's crickets, I wouldn't worry. Sometimes they get this crazy food fad started like most kids, but eventually they do eat a more varied diet. If your crickets are properly gutloaded, there's nothing to worry about as long as he's eating.

[newticus]

here's another off topic Q. Can you gut load cricket meant for cresteds with oranges or grapefruit? I know cresteds can't handle citric acid, but once it's in the cricket does it matter?

[DragnDrop]

Crickets will get the runs if fed too much citrus fruit, so I wouldn't try it. Cricket poop is smelly enough as it is :)
A lot of care sheets say to use oranges as a water source, but it's not the best thing to do from what I've experienced.