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Mustangrde1
05-01-05, 09:35 AM
Of over 200 reptiles seized 33 are place the rest appear to have been euthanized!

This to a large extent could have been avoided. Myself as well as Ray Goushaw of Herpetological Breeding Research have made numerous phone calls to the HSUS in Vero Beach regarding these animals including offers of taking them in ourselves and placing them for free to qualified reptile keepers and providing them with proper medical care. The Saint Lucie Regional Herpetological Society was also involved as the members had already stated they would take in any of these animals as well.

The Humane Society has seen fit to instead euthanize these animals as is obvious by their comments.
QUOTE
"They belong in their natural habitat. Having them in captivity for entertainment, we're really opposed to that,"
I was in this shop several times prior to its demise. The animals were not native species for the most part. They were exotics from Chameleons to Ball Pythons and tegus etc, so release was NOT an option.

The Humane Society appears to have ignored the phone calls that both myself and Ray made and our offers to take these animals in and give them proper medical care and placement. Instead they appear to have destroyed many of these animals. 200 plus reptiles and only 33 appear to have survived!

Below are some article clips. The first two are briefs as I can not find the entire articles.
More information to follow

January 1st, 2005
More than 200 store reptiles seized
VERO BEACH -- More than 100 snakes in need of water were recovered from an Old Dixie Highway pet store Thursday during a state investigation into complaints about the shop. The Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission received a phone call about a strong stench coming from Vicki and Fred's Reptiles in the 600 block of Old Dixie Highway. They found at least a dozen dead snakes, lizards and scorpions in cages as well as rats roaming freely throughout the store, said Fish and Wildlife

Published on January 29, 2005, Vero Beach Press Journal (FL)
PETA wants shop owners prosecuted
INDIAN RIVER COUNTY -- A national animal rights group is urging State Attorney Bruce Colton to prosecute the owner of a pet store where more than a dozen dead snakes, lizards and scorpions were found last month. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or PETA, sent Colton a letter regarding the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's investigation into conditions at Vicki and Fred's Reptiles in the 600 block of Old Dixie Highway. Officers with the agency found the dead

April 20, 2005
VERO BEACH — A local pet store owner entered a not guilty plea this week to charges of animal cruelty, exhibition and sale of wildlife without a permit and improper caging of animals.
Victoria Genaldi, 29, of the 600 block of Fifth Street Southwest, was charged last month following a Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's investigation into conditions at Vicki and Fred's Reptiles.
In December, after receiving complaints from neighboring businesses in the 600 block of Old Dixie, investigators searched the store and found more than 100 snakes in need of water. They also found a dozen dead snakes, lizards and scorpions in cages, as well as freely roaming rats.
Genaldi signed the animals over to Fish and Wildlife, which signed them over to the Humane Society of Vero Beach and Indian River County, said Humane Society field investigator Ilke Daniel.
The Humane Society ended up with 113 snakes, 77 lizards and geckos, two turtles, two frogs, several tarantulas and chameleons and one scorpion.
Each animal received veterinary attention. Some were euthanized, and others died over the following months from disease, Daniel said.
The Humane Society placed about 30 animals with nonprofit, state-registered educational facilities. The local agency does not support adopting the reptiles into homes as pets, said Executive Director Joan Carlson.
"They belong in their natural habitat. Having them in captivity for entertainment, we're really opposed to that," she said.
Genaldi was charged last month with the first-degree misdemeanor charge of animal cruelty, based on allegations she unnecessarily deprived animals of food and water, said Assistant State Attorney Ryan Butler.
The charge carries a possible penalty of one year in jail and/or a $5,000 fine, according to state statutes.
A second-degree misdemeanor charge of exhibition and sale of wildlife without a permit carries a possible penalty of 60 days in jail, a $500 fine or both, according to state statutes.
The third count, improper caging of reptiles, alleges Genaldi violated a Fish and Wildlife administrative rule.

The below is taken from the HSUS MAIN WEBSITE.

http://www.hsus.org/about_us/


QUOTE
The HSUS is dedicated to creating a world where our relationship with animals is guided by compassion. We seek a truly humane society in which animals are respected for their intrinsic value, and where the human-animal bond is strong.


The below is from the HSUS CEO

http://www.hsus.org/about_us/history/on_hi...of_beliefs.html


QUOTE
At no time in human history have the abuses of animals been so acute and grand, but never have our opportunities been greater. Opposition to animal cruelty is a universal value, yet the abuse of animals has become embedded in major institutions that drive our economy. The individuals who operate the institutions that cause harm to animals go to great lengths to disguise their actions as tradition or custom, recreation or habit, or economic freedom or opportunity. It is our task to help people unmask these rationalizations and to demand change.



QUOTE
As I formally assume the office of CEO of The HSUS, I want to underscore my confidence that our talented and dedicated staff, working together, can secure impressive and lasting results in the relief and elimination of animal suffering. But to secure these results we must work closely with one another, support one another, help one another, and seek to bring out the best in one another. Let us all resolve to do this in the months and years ahead.


From the Vero Beach Humane Societies own website

http://www.verobeach.com/HumaneSociety/


QUOTE
WHO WE ARE: Since 1953 we have been providing refuge and help to the animals of Indian River County. The Society, a non-profit organization which operates the county’s only animal shelter, aids over 6,000 animals annually. No animal – young, old, domestic or wild, homeless, lost, ill or injured – is ever turned away.

Vero Beach HSUS e-mails contacts

bdingle@hsvb.org

cellis@hsvb.org

allforpaws@aol.com

Indian River County Commisioners

Wesley S. Davis
Telephone: (772) 567-8000, extension 1490
1840 25th Street
Vero Beach, Florida 32960-3365
E-mail: wdavis@ircgov.com

Arthur R. Neuberger - Vice Chairman
Telephone: (772) 567-8000, extension 1490
1840 25th Street
Vero Beach, Florida 32960-3365
E-mail: neuberger@ircgov.com

Gary C. Wheeler
Telephone: (772) 567-8000, extension 1490
1840 25th Street
Vero Beach, Florida 32960-3365
E-mail: gwheeler@ircgov.com

Thomas S. Lowther, Chairman
Telephone: (772) 567-8000, extension 1490
1840 25th Street
Vero Beach, Florida 32960-3365
E-mail: tlowther@ircgov.com

Sandra L. Bowden
Telephone: (772) 567-8000, extension 1490
1840 25th Street
Vero Beach, Florida 32960-3365
E-mail: sbowden@ircgov.com

Original thread is located at http://thereptileroom.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=2430&st=0&#entry22945

M_surinamensis
05-02-05, 07:44 AM
Scott, told you alread but I'll say it again (and inceidentally bump this a bit) You tell me what you want from me and I'll do it with regards to this issue. Already written the emails and will be sending the physical letters today... but anything else, you name it and it's done.

I'm not against euthanizing animals under the appropriate circumstances when there are health issues involved... but to take animals which were in varying condition and have the majority put down simply because an organization didn't want to see them in the hands of private owners that have a legal right to keep them... That passes well beyond any gray area into outrageous and unacceptable behavior and an attack on herpetoculturalists everywhere.

Mustangrde1
05-02-05, 12:45 PM
The Humane Society placed about 30 animals with nonprofit, state-registered educational facilities. The local agency does not support adopting the reptiles into homes as pets, said Executive Director Joan Carlson.

That in itself has me furious. They were made aware that most the members of the herp society are LICENSED PERMITTED KEEPERS through the state. They do not support giving out reptiles as pets/adoptions?? then what the hell did they take them in for from the state wildlife officers to rehabilitate them for. There is more double talk with the HSUS than i can fathom.

Seamus. Make that call to Jeff if you would and have him contact me. Also I will be posting the state contact numbers later.

Think im bad about going after voids you aint seen nothing yet. These were animals that were non-venomous and from geckos to balls and ratsnakes and a a few lizard species.

Mustangrde1
05-03-05, 04:50 PM
This is a letter I beleive everyone could sign and send to the florida fish and game.



To whom it may concern.

In December of 2004 The Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission received a phone call about a strong stench coming from Vicki and Fred's Reptiles in the 600 block of Old Dixie Highway.

They found at least a dozen dead snakes, lizards and scorpions in cages, as well as rats roaming freely throughout the store, said Fish and Wildlife investigator Steve Grigg, according to the Fort Pierce Tribune.

The reptiles were then to my understanding placed with the Humane Society of Indian River County. Members to my understanding of the“ Saint Lucie Regional Herpetological Society” were told the animals were under veterinary care and quarantine.

Members of the Saint Lucie Regional Herpetological Society offered to give them proper medical care and place them at no cost when they were recovered with members Saint Lucie Regional Herpetological Society to live out there lives in the highest quality of care possible and to be used in educational lectures and shows as many of the members do these events. It is also my understanding many of the members of the Saint Lucie Regional Herpetological Society are licensed reptiles keepers with the states Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission and as such would make ideal homes for these reptiles.

No phone calls were ever made to members of the Saint Lucie Regional Herpetological Society regarding these animals final disposition on March 20th 2005 of being euthanized and thirty others being adopted out.

I find the actions of the humane society of Indian River County deplorable and potentially cruelty to animals in the fact they destroyed approximately 157 reptiles when the Humane Society of Indian River County had full and prior knowledge that a entire herpetological society was ready and able to take in all the animals thus not requiring them to be euthanized.

As the State Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission was involved in the original action and allowed the Humane Society of Indian River County to take in these animals to be rehabilitated/ rescued I must ask that the State Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission conduct an investigation in to the actions of the Humane Society of Indian River County.

A direct quote from Tcpalm.com from the Director of the Humane Society of Indian River County, forces me to believe there intent was to never try and place these animals in proper homes and it was her direct intent to have them destroyed.

QUOTE: The Humane Society placed about 30 animals with nonprofit, state-registered educational facilities. The local agency does not support adopting the reptiles into homes as pets, said Executive Director Joan Carlson.
"They belong in their natural habitat. Having them in captivity for entertainment, we're really opposed to that," she said. End Quote.

Again I must reiterate that many members of the Saint Lucie Regional Herpetological Society do these lectures and educational venues from the Ecological Center in Port Saint Lucie to Programs in our community school and would have taken in all the reptiles.

I believe it is not the policy of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission to allow animals to be placed with an organization that will willingly allow wanted animals to be destroyed.

Sincerely



Contact e-mails are
Florida Fish and Game Conservation Commission e-mail contact numbers

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
Mail the Commissioners.
Commissioners@MyFWC.com

Execuutive Director
Ken Haddad
kenneth.haddad@fwc.state.fl.us

Col. Julie Jones
Law Enforcement Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
julie.jones@fwc.state.fl.us

Mustangrde1
05-04-05, 05:04 AM
e-MAIL LIST MADE SIMPLE

Vero Beach HSUS e-mails contacts

bdingle@hsvb.org

cellis@hsvb.org

allforpaws@aol.com

Indian River County Commisioners

Wesley S. Davis
Telephone: (772) 567-8000, extension 1490
1840 25th Street
Vero Beach, Florida 32960-3365
E-mail: wdavis@ircgov.com

Arthur R. Neuberger - Vice Chairman
Telephone: (772) 567-8000, extension 1490
1840 25th Street
Vero Beach, Florida 32960-3365
E-mail: neuberger@ircgov.com

Gary C. Wheeler
Telephone: (772) 567-8000, extension 1490
1840 25th Street
Vero Beach, Florida 32960-3365
E-mail: gwheeler@ircgov.com

Thomas S. Lowther, Chairman
Telephone: (772) 567-8000, extension 1490
1840 25th Street
Vero Beach, Florida 32960-3365
E-mail: tlowther@ircgov.com

Sandra L. Bowden
Telephone: (772) 567-8000, extension 1490
1840 25th Street
Vero Beach, Florida 32960-3365
E-mail: sbowden@ircgov.com


Florida Fish and Game Conservation Commission e-mail contact numbers

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
Mail the Commissioners.
Commissioners@MyFWC.com

Execuutive Director
Ken Haddad
kenneth.haddad@fwc.state.fl.us

Col. Julie Jones
Law Enforcement Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
julie.jones@fwc.state.fl.us

Humane Society of the United States Public relations contact e-mail
http://www.hsus.org/contact_us/public_relations.html

Letters to the editor of the local news
editorial@stuartnews.com

Legue of Florida Herp Societies
RShe32944@aol.com

RB420
05-04-05, 07:45 AM
consider it done!

Mustangrde1
05-04-05, 12:45 PM
I just recieved this e-mail.

From: FWC Commissioners
To: MustangRde1@aol.com
Cc:
Bcc:
Subject: RE: Indian River County Humane Society
Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 07:07:05 -0400

Dear Mr. Bice,

I have forwarded your message to the Division of Law Enforcement for response.

Terry Mara, Commission Secretary

Mustangrde1
05-06-05, 04:30 PM
Just thought I would share some of the quotes People writing the humane society have recieved and againt the directors quote from the new paper

The Humane Society placed about 30 animals with nonprofit, state-registered educational facilities. The local agency does not support adopting the reptiles into homes as pets, said Executive Director Joan Carlson.
"They belong in their natural habitat. Having them in captivity for entertainment, we're really opposed to that," she said.

assistant director, David Dawkins at the humane society and his words to me were "we will do with these animals as we see fit" When I asked if I could adopt I was denied the privilege.

I am not interested in what you or any other person thinks on this matter. It was handled the best way and the case is closed. All you reptile keeping freaks need to stop emailing us about those seized reptiles.

I will not give out any information on what has happened to any of the animals.

Below is Ray Goushaws RESPONCE to this
herpetological
Posted: May 6 2005, 02:29 PM
Sorry Everyone i've been out... I don't get a chance to take a few days off so I took advantage of it! Went to the Bahamas for a few days and did some snorkeling etc! Anyway... I spoke with Scott right before I left and we were working on this. Now were back and ready to tackle this!! First let me give a time line and how things were handled... I contacted the Humane Society a day after the seizure of the reptiles and amphibians. At this time I introduced myself and offered assistance from both my company and the St. Lucie Regional Herpetological Society. I knew that any organization which received 177 reptiles and amphibians would be in over their head. Much less an organization which specializes in domestic species particularly cats and dogs. At this time I explained that I owned a rescue which specialized in reptiles and amphibians. We also had the assistance of other experienced keepers who would assist at no cost. At this time they said they would certainly like to take us up on our offer and they definately needed assistance. At This time I explained that it was not our interest to obtain any of the specimens. We merely wanted to offer help. Scott and I planned to meet with them the next day. Our plan was to go through the specimens and determine which animals were a priority for treatment and provide emergency care or information on specimens that needed it most. From there we would provide information on care , environmental perimeters
and diets for each specimen. In the event that caging or a holding areas were needed we were going to offer our help as well. Last but, not least were offered our services in finding long term homes for the specimens with EXPERIENCED keepers. ( It was our concern that specimens be placed with a keeper/facility that could provide long term or permanent homes. This way they could never become a problem again in the future. This should have been a concern of the Humane Society as well!) That day when I contacted them they told me that the specimens were in a quarantine under the care of a vet. At this time I voiced my concern as to wether the vet had extensive experience with reptiles and amphibians. If that were not the case we could be consulted or we would provide direct contact to specialized vets such as, Scott Stahl DVM, Douglas Mader DVM, Elliot Jacobson DVM etc. NO RESPONSE! A week or so later I called and offered our assitance again. I explained that we would help place the specimens through the Herpetological Society. Members or potential adopters would be screened and it would be determined who would provide the best care before an adoption would be approved. Upon approval the adopter would sign a form to guarantee the following: 1)The specimen could not be sold. 2) The specimen could not be used for breeding program for profit.3) In the event the specimen could not longer be cared for it would be returned to the Society to find a new home. We also offered to provide insects, produce and feeder rodents at no cost to assist in their care. These offers were refused. On my next coversation I was told that they would not place the animals with any breeders, commercial business's, herpetological societies or WILDLIFE RESCUES!!! I voiced my concern at this time in regards to the protocal they would use to adopt any specimens out to the general public.(We got word that the origional owners were having friends fill out adoption forms so they could get their seized animals back.) I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE THE RECORDS OF WHERE THE SURVIVING SPECIMENS WERE ADOPTED TO? DID THEY GO TO ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONS OR HUMANE SOCIETY MEMBERS THAT MAY HAVE A CONFLICTING INTEREST? Are their records of the specimens seized? Veterinary reports? Lab reports? Necropsy reports? I'm not upset that we were not able to help. WHAT MAKES ME ANGRY IS THAT THEY COULD NOT ADMIT THAT THEY WERE NOT IN A POSITION TO PROVIDE PROPER CARE MEDICAL AND OTHERWISE. DID THEY REFUSE HELP FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WANT TO ADMIT THIS? EGOS NEED TO BE PUT ASIDE. THEY SHOULD HAVE MADE EVERY EFFORT TO PROVIDE CARE AND SAVE THE LIFE OF THESE SPECIMENS IRREGARDLESS OF WHO OR WHERE THE HELP CAME FROM. I not arrogant enough to say that we could have saved every specimen. However, i'm sure that they could have saved at least 80% of the specimens with outside help. Thirty three out of 170 plus specimens is unforgivable!!! I just spoke with Grace Murphy of the post. She will be doing a story on this. One the questions she asked is wether we would still be willing to help the Humane Society in future rescues? My answer was YES! However, it's a heck of a way to get to that level of cooperation!!! The lives of numerous animals have to be lost??? Such a shame...Humane? Well enough of the finger pointing. It's time for a solution! I don't care if anyone gets in trouble for this...As long as it doesn't happen again! Please forgive my grammar and spelling...I'm just a little angry.

You can view the thread at http://thereptileroom.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=2430&st=40&#entry23407
I personally want to thank all the people have e-mailed and voiced their opinons its only by bringing the full weight of the herpetological community to this issue we can affect change and stop this action in the future. The Media is now involved and an article soon to be published. Anyone wishing to contact the local writer on this issue please do so but keep it polite and proffesional her e-mail is grace.murphy@scripps.com

Again Thank You all

M_surinamensis
05-07-05, 10:52 AM
I talked to a few of the people you wanted me to talk to about this on Thursday... was kinda busy friday and may be a little harried the next week or so, but the bigger idea as a solution is being worked towards.

Just didn't want you to think I'd abandoned the topic.

Alien_Regalis
05-07-05, 12:03 PM
I havent forgotten either, Scott. Just letting ya know ;)

Mason
05-07-05, 09:27 PM
anyone get any responces other than what is posted?

Mustangrde1
05-08-05, 08:34 AM
Humane Society angers reptile lovers
The St. Lucie Herpetological society says the Vero Humane Society didn't try hard enough to save most of the 100 snakes confiscated from a pet store.

By Grace Murphy
staff writer
May 8, 2005

INDIAN RIVER COUNTY — St. Lucie County reptile lovers are criticizing the Humane Society of Vero Beach and Indian River County, claiming not enough was done to save the lives of more than 100 snakes confiscated from a Vero Beach pet store in December.

Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission agents discovered the dehydrated snakes at Vicki and Fred's Reptiles in the 600 block of Old Dixie Highway.


Advertisement



The local Humane Society ended up with custody of 113 snakes, 77 lizards and a handful of other animals.

Members of the St. Lucie Regional Herpetological Society say they immediately offered to provide everything from expertise to money for medicine and food, or homes with licensed keepers.

The 85-member group was upset to learn that many of the reptiles died or were euthanized because of disease, said Scott Bice, the Herpetological Society's legislative officer. About 30 were placed with nonprofit, state-registered educational facilities.

Some group members have written and called the Humane Society, asking why their offer of help was rejected.

"If these had been dogs or cats, they would've been jumping over backwards," Bice said. "There was no reason not to take our help."

Joan Carlson, the executive director of the Humane Society, said she could not comment about the disposition of the snakes while a criminal case is pending against the store owner.

The owner, Indian River County resident Victoria Genaldi, has entered not guilty pleas to charges of animal cruelty, exhibition and sale of wildlife without a permit and improper caging of reptiles.

Speaking generally, Carlson said the Humane Society does not support the adoption of reptiles into homes as pets.

The agency places most reptiles with nonprofit agencies with educational missions, Carlson said. If sick reptiles are placed with an outside organization, it must have a professional facility equipped with isolation areas.

Reptiles are not placed with any group that could use the pets for commercial purposes such as breeding or selling, she said.

Ray Goushaw, president of the St. Lucie group and owner of the Fort Pierce-based Herpetological Breeding Research company, said he thinks the Humane Society lacked the expertise to handle so many sick reptiles at one time and mistakenly refused help from the private sector.

Goushaw said he and the St. Lucie group said they would sign contracts ensuring the animals would never be bred, sold or adopted into an inexperienced owner's home.

"When you're turning down offers from the private sector in order to save the animals' lives, I think that's wrong," he said.

Goushaw said he hopes the agency will accept outside help from private groups in the future.

- grace.murphy@scripps.com

http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/local_news/artic...3761113,00.html

The agency places most reptiles with nonprofit agencies with educational missions, Carlson said. If sick reptiles are placed with an outside organization, it must have a professional facility equipped with isolation areas.


30 animals placed 170 destroyed. my math says 15% survived and 85% died one way or another!

RB420
05-08-05, 08:55 AM
I am not interested in what you or any other person thinks on this matter. It was handled the best way and the case is closed. All you reptile keeping freaks need to stop emailing us about those seized reptiles.

That comment really angers me :mad:

Mustangrde1
05-08-05, 03:50 PM
Trust me Ray Goushaw, Ray Hunter, Myself and the SLRHS are not about to let this go. I will be generating more and more E-mails to people as well as looking in to the freedom of information act. I DEMAND answers not some double talk. This is a non-profit per-say organization who must make their records available and as there is a legal case as well that information must als be made public from what i have found out. Also Medical records are required to be kept. I as well want to know who and whom recieved the 30 survivors? This last newpaper article left many more questions unanswered. I am also curious as to if this writer contacted the State for thier input on these actions as they are involved.

I encourage everyoen to write to Reptiles Magazine and Animal Planet on this issue even to Steve Irwin. People might be laughing but this is your hobby and its time we all unite and stand up for our animals as one unified voice or this action will continue.

WHO HAS THE RIGHT BY OPINION IN AN GROUP THAT IS SUPPOSE TO SAVE ANIMALS TO DEAM ANY ONE CLASSIFICATION OF ANIMAL AS " NOT A GOOD PET"?

There job is to SAVE animals and place them not make opinion on what animals should be saved. The actions are not that of humane but that of an opinonated group who is contradicting all they say they stand for. You can not have it both ways. Either your for ALL ANIMALS or none at all!!! Especially in such a well established organization who we all know had this been dogs or cats been demanding arrest and conviction of the persons involved!