Is this the end of Bateaters?

[JimmyDavid]

Once upon a time, a unique snake came along: the Bateater! It combined the genetics of retic and burm and had it's own special look. It became a "must get" snake for many herpers.
But this one of a kind python was hard to produce and could be a great waste of time and money waiting for it to breed. Not many took on the challenge of breeding those ( i think only about NERD and a few others did).
For a LONG time, there were no babies on the horizon. It went underground...
One of these days i saw NERD classifieds on Bateaters. I thought "cool! a cluch arrived." but, nope, they are selling their adults and subadults. I guess it means they have given up. Maybe that's the beginning of the end...

[timfriesen32]

I still haven't come to a conclusion for myself as to my thought on hybrids...but, they sure are/were cool looking snakes.

How complicated was it to breed the original burm and retics to produce the actual bateaters? or was the complication breeding the actual bateaters?

TIM

[Jeff_Favelle]

I never really though of them to be a "must get" snake in the first place. That is, in my 12 years of snake keeping/breeding, I never once heard a guy (or gal) say "I must get a Bateater". LOL!

[JimmyDavid]

Both, i think.
But probably extra-hard to breed the bateaters, since they are getting rid of those.

Not trying to make up your mind for you, but don't think of them as hybrids, think of them as beautiful living creatures. :)

edit: Jeff, i've heard many people say "i want a bateater". Perhaps we all miss out what we don't care much about. It's just natural.

[timfriesen32]

I usually just do my best to stay out of the hybrid debate. Either way, yes they are beautiful animals. If one was offered to me, I wouldn't say no.

TIm

[daiyoukai]

Originally posted by JimmyDavid
Both, i think.
But probably extra-hard to breed the bateaters, since they are getting rid of those.

Not trying to make up your mind for you, but don't think of them as hybrids, think of them as beautiful living creatures. :)

edit: Jeff, i've heard many people say "i want a bateater". Perhaps we all miss out what we don't care much about. It's just natural.


it's just hard as hell to get them to breed, and when they breed it's even harder for them to not just absorb the eggs, and if they get to the point of laying the eggs it's even harder for them to be fertile.

in other words, almost EVERYONE who has tried to breed bateaters has failed and gave up, for every 5 people who publicly announce they are trying there is prob 5 more who are doing so in privet, and almost none succeed.

another thing for the bateater X bateater, they respond to neither scent so that is a whole nother complication.



Also someone at nerd has created a whole new hybrid, womo X iran jawa carpet pythons.

[anaconda]

For me it is hopefully just the beginning! See other posts for details.

[KLG]

Originally posted by JimmyDavid
One of these days i saw NERD classifieds on Bateaters. I thought "cool! a cluch arrived." but, nope, they are selling their adults and subadults. I guess it means they have given up. Maybe that's the beginning of the end...

Uh, no. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: We actually have several Bateaters - certainly not just the one pair (yes that's right, 2 snakes, not all our "adults & subadults") in the ad.

LOL...you know what they say about assuming too much!!!! I guess this is how (dumb) rumors get started. :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: :confused:

K~

[daiyoukai]

Originally posted by KLG
Uh, no. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: We actually have several Bateaters - certainly not just the one pair (yes that's right, 2 snakes, not all our "adults & subadults") in the ad.

LOL...you know what they say about assuming too much!!!! I guess this is how (dumb) rumors get started. :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: :confused:

K~

he's foreign, give him a break.

[JimmyDavid]

Originally posted by daiyoukai
he's foreign, give him a break.
Yeah. I guess that makes me real stupid, huh?

About "rumours" : If i wanted to turn this subject or any other , for that matter; into a rumour, i would send messages to everyone i know and let them speculate. Probably hide my id would be good too.
As you can see, i chose to present my thoughts (wich i'm entitled to) in an open forum, where everyone can join in and let everybody else know their justice on it. Like YOU obviously did.
Notice that the assumption i made could be made by anyone else that saw the classifieds so this is NOT how rumours start, this is how rumours are prevented from starting.

[KLG]

No, you made an incorrect assumption.

It could have been "look, NERD is selling a pair of bateaters", or "I wonder if this means they're not working with them anymore," not "I guess they're giving up," stating it as if you somehow knew it to be fact.

I guess it's all in the "presentation." :rolleyes:

Apples and oranges, but a moot point by now.

K~

[KLG]

Originally posted by daiyoukai
he's foreign, give him a break.

Wow. That was just asinine. You're actually judging someone based on where they're from?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[JimmyDavid]

Maybe i presented it wrong then. It sure wasn't about starting a rumour or anything. I'm Sorry if it looked that way.

I still stand to what i say, i sense a certain fading about Bateaters in general, wich was the point of my post.
:)

[KLG]

I think they're just hard to breed, which is why a lot of people give up early on & don't try again if they initially fail.

Keep an eye out...cool things could happen. ;)

K~

[lostwithin]

.he's foreign, give him a break.

That was by far one of the most ignorant statements you could have made. I sincerely hope a moderator ban's you from the site. there should be absolutely zero tolerance for that sort of comment.

Devon

[daiyoukai]

Yeah. I guess that makes me real stupid, huh?
Wow. That was just asinine. You're actually judging someone based on where they're from?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

That was by far one of the most ignorant statements you could have made. I sincerely hope a moderator ban's you from the site. there should be absolutely zero tolerance for that sort of comment.

Devon


It was a freaking joke, calm down and dont be so overly sensitive.

:rolleyes:

[JimmyDavid]

I never took it the wrong way. i assumed you didn't mean anything by that, from the start.
But you must understand it was a poor choice in humor. :)

To KLG : Has it ever been tried with a rock instead of a burm?

[daiyoukai]

Originally posted by JimmyDavid
I never took it the wrong way. i assumed you didn't mean anything by that, from the start.
But you must understand it was a poor choice in humor. :)

To KLG : Has it ever been tried with a rock instead of a burm?
I guess, but the responses to it I got back you'd think I talked about someones momma.:o

[Gregg M]

You know why it is so hard to get it to happen???? BECAUSE IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN!!!!! Plain and simple...... Dont try to play that "it happens in the wild" card either, because it does not happen in the wild..... There has never been one single wild bateater ever found..... Can you even breed bateater X bateater, or bateater X burm, or bateater X retic??? For the sake of the pure bloods I sincerely hope not..... I do not know why anyone would want to buy animals with questionable genetics from people with questionable ethics..... Its beyond me......

Hey Jimmy, Wassup bro???? How have you been my brother????

[Dirty]

You can breed a retic to a bateater, it's called a jungle retic. I think both are awesome. To a degree, I can understand people not liking hybrids, but with one thats so difficult to produce (like a bateater), I really don't understand someone giving themselves a freakin stroke over it. Gregg, don't you keep Gaboon x Rhino crosses? Isn't that a hybrid?

Oh yeah, and KLG: Retic x Afrock?

[daiyoukai]

Originally posted by Gregg M
You know why it is so hard to get it to happen???? BECAUSE IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN!!!!! Plain and simple...... Dont try to play that "it happens in the wild" card either, because it does not happen in the wild..... There has never been one single wild bateater ever found..... Can you even breed bateater X bateater, or bateater X burm, or bateater X retic??? For the sake of the pure bloods I sincerely hope not..... I do not know why anyone would want to buy animals with questionable genetics from people with questionable ethics..... Its beyond me......

Hey Jimmy, Wassup bro???? How have you been my brother????

Lets make a religion or politics thread so you can post your oposing views somemore.

It's clear in the last thread you dont like
them, good for you. This thread was as clearly labled as the last one, knowing this you would also know that it's going to be full of people who like hybrids and more then likely dont care about your opinion on he subject. I doubt you are going to change any one's views with your posts on the subject so why dont you just stop posting in these threads?


seriously, I for one do not care what your views are because I am mature enough to make my own. These views are no different then someone posting "I just found jesus" and you saying that muhammad is the only god. This is why there is no religios or political debate on teh forums more then likely.

what Im getting at is that if you dont like them, fine dont support those who breed them and dont post about them, positive or negative. Just keep it to your self.

[M_surinamensis]

I think they're just hard to breed, which is why a lot of people give up early on & don't try again if they initially fail.

Gee Kara, it's almost like they have ingrained behavioral patterns and a genetically predetermined method of natural selection keeping them from easily copulating. Stupid process of evolution, it's always trying to keep you from selling five figure abominations, how DARE it?! You sure showed it though. By the way, how many of those carpet x womas are still alive?

Lets make a religion or politics thread so you can post your oposing views somemore.

Daiyoukai, it's not a religious or political topic and to imply such is really just inappropriate and inflamatory. Gregg's arguments are founded in legitimate biological science and his opinion is justified with regards to the captive gene pools. You may not agree with his opinion and might argue with his science but to dismiss them out of hand as being incorrect simply because they do not align with your own... That really just makes you come across as close minded, ignorant and a little on the stupid side.

Clearly there are opposing views on the subject, as with many subjects. Discussion and debate is an important aspect of any message board and any individual thread; it helps people who may not have formed an opinion on an issue see multiple sides of the argument, both the extremes and the moderate positions and you do a great disservice to all those who may be seeking information by telling Gregg that his on-topic opinion doesn't belong on a thread or that he shouldn't post. Simply because you have formed an opinion does not make yours in some way untouchable to critics or sacrosanct and correct. In fact, since his has reasonable caution, science and morality together as a three pronged majority... your opinion is rather ignorant and foolish. Please stop spreading your idiotic prohybrid crap immediately, "just keep it to yourself." Thank you for your cooperation on this matter.

[JimmyDavid]

What's up , Gregg?
How are those hots doing? Keep it up!

I bet my signature line sounds familiar at least to you, right?

[Gregg M]

Originally posted by Dirty
Gregg, don't you keep Gaboon x Rhino crosses? Isn't that a hybrid?

Not hybrids..... They are intergrades..... All of the gab/rhino crosses in my collection are wild caughts...... This means they do it in the wild without being tricked into it and there is also natural selection at play there too..... They are a common cross and may be subject to species classification..... Most of the time intergrades are not part of evolution but once in a great while there are acceptions to the rule in NATURE, not in captivity.....

Seamus, thanks for you input on the subject..... You have a much better way with words and scentence articulation than I do...... LOL.......

Jimmy D, Night Of The Living Dead rocks..... The original was the best, but I dig the remake too..... Any zombie flick is a good flick....

[daiyoukai]

Originally posted by M_surinamensis
Gee Kara, it's almost like they have ingrained behavioral patterns and a genetically predetermined method of natural selection keeping them from easily copulating. Stupid process of evolution, it's always trying to keep you from selling five figure abominations, how DARE it?! You sure showed it though. By the way, how many of those carpet x womas are still alive?



Daiyoukai, it's not a religious or political topic and to imply such is really just inappropriate and inflamatory. Gregg's arguments are founded in legitimate biological science and his opinion is justified with regards to the captive gene pools. You may not agree with his opinion and might argue with his science but to dismiss them out of hand as being incorrect simply because they do not align with your own... That really just makes you come across as close minded, ignorant and a little on the stupid side.

Clearly there are opposing views on the subject, as with many subjects. Discussion and debate is an important aspect of any message board and any individual thread; it helps people who may not have formed an opinion on an issue see multiple sides of the argument, both the extremes and the moderate positions and you do a great disservice to all those who may be seeking information by telling Gregg that his on-topic opinion doesn't belong on a thread or that he shouldn't post. Simply because you have formed an opinion does not make yours in some way untouchable to critics or sacrosanct and correct. In fact, since his has reasonable caution, science and morality together as a three pronged majority... your opinion is rather ignorant and foolish. Please stop spreading your idiotic prohybrid crap immediately, "just keep it to yourself." Thank you for your cooperation on this matter.


I dont think my opinion is correct or incorrect. I just believe that spewing his hybrid hate in EVERY thread about hybirds is alil over the top.

[Dirty]

What's the dif between hybrids and integrades? Just curious...

[Gregg M]

Quick lesson for Dirty.....

Intergrade: Animals that possess moderately, well developed, distinguishing characteristics of two GENETICALLY RELATED taxa....

Hybrid: Offspring of two animals that are not genetically related or, are of unrelated taxa.....

See the difference?????

Daiyoukai, I can spew what ever I like as long as it is on topic and has some backing to it...... If you do not like what I have to say, dont read or respond to it..... It is that simple.....

[Davey312]

Originally posted by daiyoukai
Lets make a religion or politics thread so you can post your oposing views somemore.

It's clear in the last thread you dont like
them, good for you. This thread was as clearly labled as the last one, knowing this you would also know that it's going to be full of people who like hybrids and more then likely dont care about your opinion on he subject. I doubt you are going to change any one's views with your posts on the subject so why dont you just stop posting in these threads?


seriously, I for one do not care what your views are because I am mature enough to make my own. These views are no different then someone posting "I just found jesus" and you saying that muhammad is the only god. This is why there is no religios or political debate on teh forums more then likely.

what Im getting at is that if you dont like them, fine dont support those who breed them and dont post about them, positive or negative. Just keep it to your self.

daiyoukai:
Everyone's got the right to there own opinion. You can't tell someone to be quite about what they think jsut because it goes against your beleifs... i know for myself personally i like hearing both sides of the story because im not sure where i stand on the hybrid debate.. there's good arguments and different conditions on both sides.. so to tell someone that they are not allowed to say what they think is just ingorant..

Gregg M:
Are corn X rat snake considered intergrades as well?

Thanks,
Davey

[RB420]

Originally posted by daiyoukai
I dont think my opinion is correct or incorrect. I just believe that spewing his hybrid hate in EVERY thread about hybirds is alil over the top.

Its no different than going into every thread about hybrids and saying "hey, i love hybrids" if the thread is about hybrids people are more then welcome to offer their opinion on them as long as they do so in a respectful manor. greg Seamus and few others always offer their opinion with a wealth of knoweledge to support it. can you say the same when you offer your pro hybrid stance?

[Dirty]

Thanks Gregg

[Gregg M]

Any time Dirty..... The more we all learn (myself included), the better off our hobby will be......

[Sean_.E.]

In all honesty, I don't see what is so special about these snakes. They're not ugly but I think Burmese and reticulated pythons are just as nice, if not nicer. I can't say I have any interest in keeping either species (or the hybrid) and I would probably turn one down if it was offered to me.

I think that a big problem with us humans is that we like to meddle a bit too much. Instead of looking at an animal (for example) and appreciating its natural beauty, we think to ourselves, "Hmmm... I think it would look much better if..." or, “ I wonder what it would look like if…” And that's when all hell breaks loose. Not to say curiosity is a bad thing but there are some things that, in my opinion, we just shouldn’t mess with.

[Dirty]

Gregg...
Would a Gaboon/Rhino crossed with a puff adder be an integrade too? Have there ever been any of these collected from the wild?

[striko_69]

Im actually very glad I read this thread.

Someone earlier said how its good to have extremes and moderates in debates so observers (myself) who did not yet have an opinion could obtain more info on the topic, and make their own opinion.

You see when you are prohybrid you will create a good deal of bias in your arguments. But the antihybrids will create a great deal of bias too. The moderates are unbiased and just give knowledge. This leads to the presentation of very diverse info to the reader, on which he can therefore make an UNBIASED choice.

Just my two cents on the thread and debate.

Also I always thought a corn snake was a rat snake anyway, or is that like a puff adder being like a night adder?

Al