Cottonmouth Question....newbie

[michtx]

Hello!
My husband and I recently bought land along a creek in Central Texas. I was exploring the creek by kayak today and came across several snakes entwined in some brush close to the banks of the creek. They did not peruse me, and I left the area ASAP.

I returned with my husband by land and we viewed the clump of brush from higher up on the banks. He identified them as Cottonmouths (he is former ranger for Texas Parks and Wildlife)and informed me they were venomous, curious and sometimes agressive.

I acknowledge that I am in the intruder in their environment, however I would like to feel comfortable in kayaking the creek by carrying some method of defense should I be approached by an aggressive individual.

I am wondering if anyone is aware of any spray that I could use in defense if I was approached on the waterway and was unable to retreat to safety? Do you know if common Mace or Pepper Spray are any deterrents to this type of snake?

I thank you for your time and any information,
Mich

[Big_V]

Spraying the animal is the worst idea possible. If you come accross one just let it be. Its not going to chase after you. It is a affraid and will defend itself if you threaten it. The best thing to do when coming accross one is to stay away and in a few seconds it should move on its way. A cottonmouth is not to be feared but respected.

[michtx]

I will clarify further. I have NO INTENTION of disturbing an individual who is not approaching me. My question is strictly one of self defense. I have utmost respect for animals in their natural environment and absolutely will do no harm if I am not at risk personally. However, I know several local fishermen who have had Cottonmouths approach and make unprovoked attacks. They can be curious and aggressive. Luckily, the two I encountered yesterday were neither curious nor agressive. My FIRST action was to retreat, and I was not persued. However, IF I am approached and can not get away quickly enough, I would like to be able to defrend myself against being bit. Currently, I could only swat at an approaching snake with my paddle, but I would like to know if there is a more effective deterrent if and ONLY IF it becomes clear that the snake is persuing me.

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by michtx
I know several local fishermen who have had Cottonmouths approach and make unprovoked attacks.
Yep, that sounds like a typical fishermen's farce... Ask them how big the largest fish they ever caught was, and then ask to see a photo.

Like Big_V indicated, it's not going to chase you down and envenomate you and to believe otherwise is ludicrous. Stay away from them, and they will stay away from you.

[Reticsrule]

i agree. you have no reason at all to be afraid of them. snakes are not the kind of animals that attack you.

[michtx]

One of the fishermen I mentioned is my husband, a former Cave Specialist with Texas Parks and Wildlife. He has handled many snakes over many years, primarily Rattlesnakes, in Texas Park Lands and Bureau of Land Management lands in New Mexico. He was in fact approached by two Cottonmouths, one of which, though unprovoked, struck at his inner tube white he was fly fishing..... Hardly a fish tale farce.

In addition to posting my question here, I also sought the advice of snake experts via the internet. I received a reply to the same question I posted here from a gentleman who runs the Brazos River Rattlesnake Ranch. This individual's credentials include providing snakes and know-how to the Film Industry, and consulting on National Geographic and Discovery Channel specials. In respect to the Cottonmouth, his website states: "This dangerous semi-aquatic snake is truly an aggressive reptile that will stand its ground or even approach an intruder."

Instead of resting on your dismissive replies, labeling the idea of an unprovoked approach or attack as "ludicrous", I urge you to educate yourselves on this particular species. I think it far wiser to be aware of the realities of a Cottonmouth's behavior, as opposed to being caught up in your obvious and perhaps dangerously naive defense of Cottonmouths.

Finally, as an FYI, the answer I received from the proprietor of the Rattlesnake Ranch responded that a pepper or mace spray would in fact act as a deterent in an approach by a curious or aggressive Cottonmouth.

Thank you for your responses.

[CamHanna]

I would hesitate to call anyone in this thread uneducated (RMBolton especially).

Snakes are generally inoffensive creatures; even the most aggressive and intelligent among them are more inclined to avoid confrontation than to initiate it. Cottonmouths should be no exception.

Though it's obvious by your posts that you are an intelligent person, I think that your notions of our ophidian neighbors have been drastically misguided by hearsay. Books are absolutely indispensable if you wish to better understand the snakes in your region, and the risks they may pose. You should know that there are several common snakes that can easily be mistaken for cottonmouths but that pose no threat at all. Additionally, I would wager that with a little reading you would find local snakes to be of some interest, which can only serve to increase your enjoyment of the Texan wilds and the creatures therein. A great book for Texan snakes is A Field Guide to Texas Snakes (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0877192774/qid=1113266549/sr=2-4/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_4/103-3718955-9243032) by Alan Tennant. I reckon that you could find it in a local library or order it on-line if you're so inclined.

Tennants musings on the threat posed by western cottonmouths
Despite the cottonmouth's formidable reputation, very few people are bitten by this reptile, and even fewer are seriously injured: only about 7 percent of Texas' snakebites involve cottonmouths, and throughout the United States the mortality rate is less than 1 person per year.

Tennant's notes on Western Cottonmouth behavior
The most widespread story about the cottonmouth concerns the water-skier purportedly killed by a flurry of bites after tumbling into a "nest" of these reptiles. For years various re-telling of this fictitious event have circulated in boating circles, and an even more absurd fantasy about a cowboy killed by western cottonmouths while crossing a river on horseback appeared in the television special Lonesome Dove.
All such episodes are untrue: no water-skier or river-fording horse-man has ever suffered multiple A. piscivorus (=cottonmouth) envenomation. These scary myths originate in people's observations of the large number of harmless water snakes that, during the late summer, become concentrated in drying creeks and stock tanks where they are mistaken for nests of cottonmouths.
Cottonmouths do not "nest," however, and packed groups would last no longer than it took the larger A. piscivorus to swallow their smaller relatives. Further, in the water cottonmouths quickly dive and flee even when approached stealthily-much less when confronted with the churning bow wave of a 1,000-pound mustang. On land, an occasional cottonmouth will hold it's ground and gape open-mouthed, but none attack en masse. (In fact, the cottonmouth's notorious gape is actually a comparatively passive defense gesture, for such wide-jawed A. piscivorus often fail to strike even when prodded with a boot.)

Tennant on Florida Cottonmouth behavior
Although big cottonmouths can be pugnacious when annoyed, A. piscivorus is not nearly as ferocious as popularly envisioned. Can cottonmouths bite under water? Of course, that's how they catch fish. Apparently it's only fish though, mostly captured in the shallows. In deep water cottonmouths swim away if annoyed; they do not remain in place, as they do on land, to gape in threat. (Generated by the force of it's own strike, water resistance against a swimming cottonmouth's wide-spread mouth would press it backwards, making a long, aggressive underwater strike impossible.)

While I think that these little snippits address the issue at hand nicely the entire book is really worth checking out. Snakes are actually quite interesting creatures.

Cam

[michtx]

Thank you Cam, but I already have the book - my husband had it in his reference collection when we married. I agree, it is an interesting and informative text. Before I made my initial post, I had already consulted it and read the excepts you posted. As avid wilderness backpackers, wilderness kayakers, experienced cavers and scuba divers, we are aware and respectful of snakes and all creatures in their environment. I experience a more enjoyable wildlife experience if I am aware of risks and have strategies in place to avoid those risks and handle potential crisis.

I do not intend to categorize anyone here as uneducated, I meant to convey that the responses concerning Cottonmouths was perhaps less than fully informed. Again, I agree that most any creature will prefer to avoid an encouter. And as my experience on Sunday demonstrated, Cottonmouths will likely chose to ignore an intruder's presence. However, they can be territorial, curious and occasionally aggressive. My primary concern was to have a strategy in place to handle a chance encounter with a Cottonmouth who is responding as a predator, particualrly if I am kayaking alone and a long way from assistance.

[CamHanna]

My primary concern was to have a strategy in place to handle a chance encounter with a Cottonmouth who is responding as a predator, particualrly if I am kayaking alone and a long way from assistance.
A cottonmouth is going to try to eat you? That is rather improbable. I am not aware of any envenomation by any species in the wild that that was not in response to some offensive action by the victim (whether intentional or not). If the snake does not see you as a treat then it has no reason to bite you, certainly such a simple beast would not harm you purely out of spite.

If you were to somehow offend a cottonmouth then you would likely have little difficulty slinking away before you were injured. If not then I am sure a solid whack with a paddle would be a solid deterrent. I must stress of course that one should not paddle about beating unsuspecting snakes and also that there are a number of snakes that could be mistaken for Agkistrodon piscivorus but are completely harmless.

For instance, below are links to six snake pictures; three are cottonmouths, three are not. Can you tell them apart?

Snake 1 (http://www.lakejacksonturtles.org/fasciata450.jpg)
Snake 2 (atypical) (http://www.moocowrecords.com/Assets/images/cottonmouth.jpg)
Snake 3 (http://www4.ncsu.edu/~krmessen/cottonmouth%20main.jpg)
Snake 4 (http://www.kingsnake.com/louisiana/pics/diamondback_water_snake1.jpg)
Snake 5 (http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/17572neonatecottongraves13sept04-med.JPG)
Snake 6 (http://www.wingwatchers.com/images2/wtrsnake1.jpg)

The field guide should help you but do you think you would not the difference when surprised out in the wilderness?

Cam

[snakehunter]

Cam brought up a very good point, memorize the pics in the book all you want, but mother nature is always renovating and trying new things out, not all cottonmouths will look like the ones in the book. FOR INSTANCE

I am an avid field herper to say the least, and on a camping trip I found some northern water snakes (N. Sipideon) and these looked like a different species all together, I was able to ID them by scale counts and stuff, but the point stands, not everything will be cut and dry in the woods, nature is not fair.

On another note I would seriously reconsider carrying mace for snakes, use your paddle to GENTLY slide the snake ina different direction, these guys will most likely become aggressive if cornered, so just keep your distance or just gently try to convince him ona different direction. You will find that they are very quik to get out of others ways. I am very appreciative that you are so understanding about the environment, most I talk to have the mind set that they are the ones at the top, and that what they say goes.................maybe thats why Im a Bio major....haha mother nature always has a way to let you know your place heh heh
-Jacob

[Removed_2815]

I think it's your desire to intrude on their territory and spray caustic chemicals in their eyes that is eliciting "dismissive replies." If you're in an area where you can't get away from the hoards of snakes, then my advice is to find somewhere else to play.

Some species of snakes are territorial (we're talking considerably small territories here - they're not defending the river, mainly just the immediate area). Some species are naturally curious and aggressive - Nerodia sipedon sp. comes to mind. Though, I have yet to see a Watersnake or Cottonmouth leave the security of the water's edge to investigate my canoe. The only instance of curiosity that I have witnessed was a snake that was already in the water as I was approaching. It swam the very short distance to my canoe and proceeded to casually investigate. I would hesitate to say that this snake was being territorial, rather, I believe it was merely investigating a possible area of "land" to explore. After a few minutes of good photo-shooting time, the snake was on its way.
Now, it wouldn't have been difficult to separate myself from the snake had I been so inclined. Paddling away or using your paddle to push the snake away are two simple, effective, and humane methods to remove the snake.

These snakes have absolutely no desire to approach and envenomate you. Again, to believe otherwise is ludicrous. Producing venom is metabolically costly and the snake is not going to waste it on something it cannot consume unless it's the snake's last resort (i.e. you are the one pursuing the snake and it feels it must defend itself).

Mace and pepper spray would have little, if any, effect anyway. Snakes have primitive nervous systems and they wouldn't respond like a human or bear would. I believe it's moot anyway as snake's don't have eyes like mammals, they are covered by a modified transparent scale.

You can happily paddle your kayak without fear of reprisal by the snakes. Now, there's an inherent risk by being in the vicinity of venomous reptiles, and I don't think anyone is saying otherwise - but you are the one who controls this risk. These snakes will leave you alone if you extend to them the same courtesy, it's as simple as that. Snakes are not innately "programmed" to seek out large mammals and envenomate them. Take a moment to think about the selection process. How can a behaviour that would ultimately end with the snake being killed by the large mammal be selected for?

R

[Removed_2815]

I wanted to add that I also respect your desire to share the environment and I can certainly appreciate your fear. I applaud your desire to educate yourself on this species, though anecdotal evidence is hardly worth citing.
Show me some peer reviewed publication that shows Cottonmouths to have a significant propensity to actively swim out and attack kayakers and I will offer you my most humblest apology.
Kind regards.

[K1LOS]

Well, I certainly have trouble believing that a cottonmouth went out of its way to attack a person.

Even if it was your husband that told you that fish story, there is something missing there. Either he unknowingly did something, or was bothering it. Snakes of that size would have no interest in 'attacking' people. The only time you need to worry about them attacking you, is if they are actually big enough to eat you. You won't find any of those in texas! Even then, it would be an ambush, not a chase after you type thing.

Like RMBolton pointed out, it is very taxing on the snake to produce venom, it needs that venom to hunt for food (you are obviously far too large to be eaten).

As for citing somebody who offers know-how to the film industry, and appearing on television, that really doesn't mean that much. How many times have you seen a chameleon change its colour to some rediculous background for camoflauge on television? They just can't do it, but that doesn't make for good tv...

Pepper spray? personally, i think you are more likely to agitate the snake then anything else. I would definately not attempt this myself.

I have heard of using alcohol to get snakes to let go of you when they have latched on to you (maybe somebody else can elaborate on this). Perhaps a spray bottle of vodka might be a better deterent, but thats just speculation, and something that would want to be tested before it is needed in the field.


Step wisely when you are stopping for lunch or whatever, think about your steps and look around. Just be cautious and you won't have any problems. You saw it the first time and didn't have any trouble right?

What are you worried about when you are in the kayak?shoo it away with the paddle and you'll be fine. You could probably out paddle it anyways. I can out paddle snakes in my canoe...

just like anything else, it just wants to carry out its usual day. don't bug it, and it won't bug you.

Geoff

[Piers]

I think much of the cottonmouth aggressive rep comes from the fact that they open their mouths to show their "cotton white mouth". People take this as aggression instead as a warning.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Piers

[ChurleR]

I don't know if this has been stated or not, However, most accounts of cottonmouths chasing people are due to the person being between the cottonmouth and their homestretch of water. Cottonmouths are odd snakes, they have a VERY limited home range and year after year are often found in the same spot, moving a max of about 10 meters in most population studies.

They have a home body of water, and if you're between them and it, they will try to get to it. They're slow on land (top spped about 4 mph max, I don't think you'd have any trouble outrunning that), and they feel much more comfortable in an environment where mobility is on their side. So simply put, if you find one on land and it's moving towards you, get out of the way and see if it heads towards water.

If it's on the land, just powerwalk away, no harm done.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

I felt I should add this.

I have in fact been 'chased' by a cottonmouth. Whether I provoked it or not, the animal in fact hurled itself over to me several times in several directions, while taking extravagant snaps towards me. All in the while standing several feet from the animal at any given time.

Now I have dealt with thousands of cottonmouths out in the field and this has been the only 'chase' I've ever encountered, but just because it rarely happens doesn't mean it won't,(Or just because it's never happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't) and on that note, a simple push with the paddle will be suffice.
Zane

[dannyc]

Also it should be known that they are aggresive dureing mating season, July and August. I had one come at me and checked it out to find out why.

[Ontario_herper]

Is there a particular answer that you were looking for? You seem to be disputing people’s responses to the question that you asked on a public forum. Many of the people that posted an answer to your question have forgotten more than you or your hubby will ever know about snakes.

If there is a particular answer that you’re looking for feel free to let me know. I’ll post that same answer. You can then stop spewing out the nonsense that you seem to think is factual.

If not, just keep paddling your yak and don’t worry about the snakes. You’ll be fine!

[crimsonking]

If you want to defend yourself then education is the best weapon.
That said, some individual snakes seem much less tolerant of our intrusion than others. The key there is the word individual.
I have seen many cottonmouths here in FL and while they are a different ssp. I am assuming (perhaps wrongly) that they act pretty much the same.
When photographing them I must be aware that they generally will remain quite motionless--until they have had their fill of my intrusion. Again, they are individuals and seem to have a threshold each of their own. Some I have had to move around for pics and moved them again and again with no problems. Others gaped and struck when I was still 15 feet away from them. Most will gape (until you get your camera ready:) ) and not strike at all. If allowed a "backdoor" escape many will flee after they are at their limit of intrusion or whatever.
I have never been chased by a cotton, but have had very agressive snakes like racers and coachwhips stand their ground and force the issue so to speak.
A lightweight stick say 3' or so that you can handle easily would be my choice to "fend off" an agressive snake or to gently move one off a path if I had no choice. Your paddle would work I suppose in any case.
Be careful and learn all you can about when they may be actively breeding in your area as they can be more agressive and less aware of you.
A shot or two for ya:
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/151moccassin2a.JPG
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/151flcotton1d.JPG
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/151apc55a.JPG
:Mark

[nburgmei]

"This dangerous semi-aquatic snake is truly an aggressive reptile that will stand its ground or even approach an intruder."

I personally take exception to this statement. Particularly the "truly an aggressive reptile". I'm not sure I've ever met an "aggressive" snake. I've met defensive snakes before, but I can't recall ever being sought after by any species and attacked.

In my experience cottonmouths are one of the least "aggressive" snakes I've come into contact with. Of the 35 specimens (which isn't many) I've been around in my lifetime only 3 have struck. All three of those had taken a bit of a disliking to being moved around with a stick for pictures. That's not to say there might not be a somewhat more defensive snake out there, but this is just my experience.

Cottonmouths have a bad reputation as one of the mean snakes, but from what I've seen they're much less likely to bite than most others I've experienced. They are certainly willing to stand their ground, but their reluctance to bite has seemed to be fairly common amongst those I've been around. I'm not endorsing going out and testing this theory with your bare hands, but cottons would definitely be low on my list as far as "aggressive" snakes were concerned.

Nick - On top of that list, thus far, a cornered blue racer. That was one heck of a defense. :D

[reelthing4u]

on reptile wild .they when in to the swamps in sc and got 3 wild cottonmouths .the tried to get the snake to bite by stepping by it .none did .then they use a fake foot and stepped on it and couldn't get them to bite the foot .then they used a fake hand to pick them up and this is the only time they got them to bite.research show this, but not that all cottonmouth would act they samebut to show they are getting a bad rap:rolleyes:

[Jungle Jen]

I do not have any experience with these snakes in the wild, but I have dealt with them in captivity. My friend was going to feed his, and when he opened the sliding glass door, both snakes shot out and gave chase. This was the first time they had done this, but it only takes once. (My friend did hook the beasties back into their cage without incident.)

PS - I guess pictures 2, 3, and 5

[shaggybill]

Jungle Jen, I would suspect that the snakes were intent on getting out of the cage, but were not actually intending to give chase. Your friend probably just happened to be in the way.

In my experience with cottonmouths, I have never ever seen one that "attacked" without provocation. 99.9999% of these snakes will go out of their way to get out of your way and want nothing to do with you. And if they do approach you, its out of curiousity, not aggression.

[SCReptiles]

I think it’s a misnomer to label any North American snake as aggressive. Aggressive means the animal will attack and pursue humans with provocation. There are no north American snakes that fit that criteria. Everything we have will flee before fighting. Most will turn tail and run, a few (edb, cottonmouth, wdb) will stand and face an adversary, but still back away rather then attack.

Snakes only bite for food or defense. Obviously they have no intention of eating a human. So all bites will be defensive. When they have the option to retreat, they will take. No snake wants to waste venom on defense, they all want it for food. I believe Zane, but I believe the snake perceived its escape route to be cut off and it was trying to move him out of the way. Snakes have virtually no eye site. If it felt cornered then, yes, you can expect prolific strikes. Often dummy strikes, meaning they have no intention of biting. Only faking it for the fear factor and hoping to bluff the advisory back.

Michtx, you have been given some good and some bad information. Do not spray the snakes with any gas. Gas is designed to blind an attacker, you are attempted to blind an attacker that does not relay on eye site in the first place. I have been hunting cottonmouths since I was 5 or 6 years old. So I have about 25 years of experience. I have read everything printed on the animals and I have learned even more on my own. I have found them in places the books tell you they do not live. Just trying to assure you that I know what I am talking about. When a cotton sees you, if it is awake and alert, it will hit the water and be gone immediately. If it is not alert and you happen close enough to it, if you just back off, you would have no problems with it. In a worst case scenario, you can use a stick, snake hook, boat ore to push it toward the water…it will take off. I have never seen research on this, but when attacked cottons will viciously defend themselves. They will move in any direction and strike with vigor. dowsing a snake with gas will provoke an attack from an otherwise peaceful animals. It can’t see where you are, so its going to lash out in all directions and perhaps tag your foot. I appreciate your attitude. Many would simply want to expatriate them from the area. If you are serious about sharing the water, you don’t need to do anything over then keep an eye out not to crowd them. thank you---

Post like this always remind me of this famous quote from the pope of snakes.

Attitude, rather than disposition is more definitive of serpent behavior. From the moment they emerge into this world until they complete their life cycle, their attitude is "Don't tread on me. I am well equipped to defend myself, but content to pass through life unnoticed. I mean no harm to anything or anyone that our creator has not provided as my bill of fare; I am self sustaining and I like it that way, please pass me by." - W.E. Haast

[galad]

LMFAO.

I cannot beleave what I have been reading here.

It seems that if you keep snakes in captivity and read some books about them you know every single thing about them.

Wow must be nice. Too bad its not true at all.

The woman was asking for a way to deter a snake from biting her, she was not asking you to comment on whether or not you thought they would actually persue her.
What makes you all experts on these snakes?
I find it hard to beleave that even if you have kept them in captivity for decades it gives you no idea of how the snake will act in the wild.

This site is full of know it alls and its really sick!

Her husband is a park ranger im sure he knows the difference between the a cotton mouth and a look alike. It's part of his job.
If he says one came up and attacked him, then it must have. Why lie about it?
An owner of a rattle snake ranch even said they can become aggressive. Why would he lie?

If your in the water on you kyak and a snake approaches you just slap the water really hard with your paddle acouple times im sure it will make him think twice of comming after you.

Peace

sorry you had to go through all that nonsence

ws

[SCReptiles]

What makes you all experts on these snakes?

I have studied them IN THE WILD for about 25 years. As noted. I have a Bachelor of Science degree. I have worked along sided dr Gordon W. Schuett author of biology of the vipers http://eaglemountainpublishing.com/products/books/biology_of_the_vipers I have studied and collected Western, Eastern, and Florida sub-species. I have kept them in captivity for about 15 years. I have breed them in captivity. I have raised them from birth to 4 feet. Should I go on?

Her husband is a park ranger im sure he knows the difference between the a cotton mouth and a look alike. It's part of his job.

In 2001 when they outlawed exotic venomous in AL, a state wildlife officer came to my friend’s lab to process the paperwork for his grandfathered animals. She identified his saw scale viper as a rattlesnake. Just because they knew someone and got a government job does not mean they are proficient.

Galad, continue LMFAO. Seems to me you already laughed your f’n brain out. Your comments are out of place and offensive. You struck me as the type that lacks the metal to deal with this type of animal, so you like to sit ideally by with a ribbon snake in your lap and cast dispersions on the people that are on the forefront.

[michtx]

Thank you SCReptiles for your response. I’ve continued to read replies to my post, but had decided against responding further. I was put off by some of the more belittling responses, however I realize that is the risk of communicating with strangers in this type of forum. Galad, I thank you for your support, but it is difficult at best to determine who is a genuine authority, and who is the 14 year old, self appointed “know it all”. IMHO, it is best to treat everyone with respect, then take everything with a grain of salt and try to authenticate facts by checking them against different sources. SCReptiles, I agree that I have been given some good advice and some bad. I wanted to update my situation and thank those who responded in a helpful spirit with educational information.

I have kayaked the same stretch of creek three times since my initial cottonmouth encounter. Once with no snake sightings, a second time encountering only a very small juvenile (less than 6” long) whom I spotted just as he/she left a rocky embankment and headed towards the bottom of the creek before I lost sight, I don’t know what kind of snake it was.

Yesterday, I was carrying my gear to a put in at an area of the creek close to where I had my first encounter. I spotted two smaller individuals, no more than 24” long. Immediately upon registering my presence, they left the limestone ledge and launched into the water. They carried themselves fairly high above the water, crossed to the other side of the creek and disappeared out of my sight upstream. I have learned from another source that in the water, mocs can be distinguished by the way their bodies float high on the water’s surface. I would be interested if anyone could support that observation.

From my first post here, I tried to convey that I had nothing but respect for the local reptiles, and intend no harm. I have learned from ranchers and other residents of my locale that the most common attitude is one of zero tolerance towards snakes enforced by a .22 caliber loaded with rat shot, or a garden hoe. I have no intention of employing either method. I have gotten “used to” the idea that I will be sharing the creek with the mocs, and will do my best to not surprise them and give them plenty of space.

I have also learned that mocs are not fond of living in areas of a lot of human activity. Perhaps in time they will move to an area of the creek less visited. In the meantime, I will assume that my paddle will be a sufficient tool to “redirect” a too-close encounter. In the event that strategy fails, I have stowed an “Extractor” kit in my kayak which is a simple syringe type suction pump to treat a bite. I hope to never use it, but as I stated in my original post, I feel better being prepared.

[SCReptiles]

I was hoping you were still monitoring this forum. I, for one, am very happy with your decisions.

Many “authorities” are now dismissing the sawyer extractor, but I have used it with what I consider to be success. I have yet to need antivenin. I use the extractor and a compression wrap. There is debate over how much venom is actually removed, but everyone is in agreement that the suction arrests venom at the bite area. This can be good and bad. Remember cottonmouth venom is primarily hemotoxic, meaning local cell destruction. My position is use the extractor if the bite is in an area that can tolerate the added necrosis, such as the calf, thigh, forearm, etc. If the bite is below the wriest or ankle the added cell destruction could lead to the amputation of a finger, toe, hand or foot.

Galad, I thank you for your support, but it is difficult at best to determine who is a genuine authority, and who is the 14 year old, self appointed “know it all”.

Be hold my evidence. He is affectionately known as Gunther. I caught him several years ago. This was the day he came from the wild, 49” and 4 pounds that day. He is about 52” now and has sired two litters of huge babies.

http://secw.bravepages.com/Chuck/scr/chuck_double_hooking_large_cotton_051503.JPG

[galad]

SCReptiles sorry if I have offended you, it was not my intention.
Mystatment about reading a book on snakes and expecting to know everything about them was directed to the person who told her to pick up a book and read about them. The book she had already read I might add.
What I meant by my post was that people were going way off topic. And it seems that if your a newbie on this site, no one will take your word for anything. Which can be understandable to some extent.
She was looking for away to deter the snakes.
And no one seemed to want to come up with that answer, being very ingnorant in the fact that they think this snake will not bite unless threatened.
This could be true, but what if she happens to threaten a snake she does not know is there, and it lunges after her?

Sure they're are probably many park rangers who don't take much pride in their job. But my impression of them being avid backpackers and kayakers . Makes me beleave that her husband loves his job and probably the type of person that will try to find out all he can on the environment and the animals in it.

Galad, continue LMFAO. Seems to me you already laughed your f’n brain out. Your comments are out of place and offensive. You struck me as the type that lacks the metal to deal with this type of animal, so you like to sit ideally by with a ribbon snake in your lap and cast dispersions on the people that are on the forefront.

SCReptiles thats a pretty hillariouse statement.
Also a very rude one. I don't recall making any personall attacks on you.
Why do you fell the need to attack me? I know it might have made u upset but there are other ways to express yourself.

But in away you are right I don't have any experience owning snakes at all. Not even a ribbon snake. So could I handle a hot right now? Probably. Can I handle one with out getting bitten?
Probably not, nor have I claimed that I can.

I also know that you know one heck of alot more about snakes then I ever will. I'm sure we are not aloud to keep hots in the city anyways. Cant even have a red tailed boa :(
peace

ws

[SCReptiles]

Ok, since you were so apologetic, I feel bad for the personal attack. I said what I did in response your statements, such as LMFAO. A lot of these guys are just like me and have devoted a great portion of their life and wealth to venomous herpetology. Laughing your f’n A off when they try to share what they have learned is enough to upset me. Of course if you were only talking to someone who offered no useful information and told her to read a book, then we are probably in accord on them. It is my position, if you do not have useful information, do not try to answer a question. You’ll never catch me in the iguana forum spouting out info to anyone. Ha ha.

Sorry brother.

[galad]

No probleme mang. I didn't take anything to heart.

It was my fault for not directing my post properly.

And I totally agree why give advise on something that you know nothing about.

Anywho, all I can say is I hope to learn more about hots, and I know this is one of the best places on the net for that info.

no hard feelings

peace

ws