substrates

[mbayless]

Hi all,
Which substrates do you use, and why do you use them? Do you use different substrates for different monitors? Why or why not?

I am curious why there is so much debate about this? I always used outside dirt, sometimes mixed with sand, sometimes mixed with cypress, and I sprayed the enclosures daily (when possible).... for aquatic animals, I used pine shavings and cypress mulch, as I found this easier to clean for aquatic animals, although they got awful dirty alot of the time - which never bothered me - and I gave them plenty of it to dig, forage, seek and destroy food....your thoughts and explanations are appreciated..
markb

[kap10cavy]

Ok, I'll play. I go to the local sand a gravel place and play with their dirts. I dig down and find some that is still moist, but not muddy underneath. I check to see how well it will hold a burrow by digging as deep as I can with my hands.
I use this for my savs and my albig.
For my argus, I do the same, but I mix in some sand and dirt from the river bank. It packs down good and holds a burrow.
I experimented with different things and have found this to be the best.(so far)
I used the plain dirt for my argus. he dug a little, since switching and adding the sandier substrate, if he's awake, he's digging.
I do use cypress mulch with my new critters going through their quarantine period. I also use cypress mulch for my tegu.

Scott

[crocdoc]

I go to a nearby bit of bushland with a rake and several large garbage bags and fill them with leaf litter. Most of the leaf litter is gum leaf, with a bit of exfoliated bark and often Banksia leaves as well.

[asphyxia]

I am using plain old dirt from a feild that was not farmed, but as it has a little too much clay content IMO, I mixed it with a little play sand and I add oak leaves every fall. for what its worth I also like to put hollow oak logs in, and 4" round or so branches
I am keep Ackies, Albigs, Durms and a Peach Throat on it

All the cages are alike as far as the dirt BTW, similar to the enclosuer below

Cheers
Brian
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/985Boa_BFC2_007-med.jpg
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/985Durms_etc_017-med.jpg
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/985Durms_etc_001-med.jpg

[SnakeyeZ]

Nice looking enclosure Brian, I have a similair setup, but without leaves and folliage on the ground.

[monitor12345]

those are all very good ideas but using dirt and foliage from outside can cause your herp to get mites and thats something you dont want to deal with , i just went to lowes and got some potting soil, my sav really seems to like it

[asphyxia]

I disagree Monitor 1-5, I have never found mites in dirt at least in Ontario, What would they be feeding on? I have experminted with Potting soil years ago and found that it can not hold a burrow at all. I also believe potting soil will eventually grow mold if it is kept moist, thus causing respetory problems down the road

Regards
B

[V.hb]

Potting soil does suck.

I've got a few thousand pounds of dirt in my house.. No mites :)

Hey Mark,

Did you ever mix dirt with cypress for your albigs? I've thought about doing it lately.. I figure it would keep the dirt a bit more diggable so I may not have to soak it down as often?

[kap10cavy]

The greatest thing about plain old dirt, is it has the natural bacteria to break down the waste produced by the monitors.
Before going to dirt, I was doing major cleaning and substrate changes atleast once a week, now I just spot clean.
I only pay $6 a ton if I use my truck and shovel my own loads.
I do use potting soil, playsand and peatmoss for my box turtles.

Scott

[asphyxia]

Hey V,

I have tried it and hated it, I was always worried that my Albig would eat some or get stuck by a peice of it when diving for the pray food, What I did find to work well and cheep, is to keep a moist hide area using spagnum moss

[kap10cavy]

Oh yea, Thanks Mark for getting this forum going again.
Did the coeds treat you good? hahahaha

Scott

[V.hb]

Brian, one thing ive never worried about is impaction. Ive seen my monitors eat cypress, dirt everything and they pass it no problem. I really didnt like sphagnum moss, found it dusty as hell if any of it dried up. Did you find the mixture held a burrow though?

[kap10cavy]

I am getting tired of agreeing all the time, but V.hb is right, I have seen all my monitors eat rocks, dirt and sticks while eating, never had a problem

Scott

[asphyxia]

Hey Guys....

I understand about the impaction and also agree, it just freaks me out and I find myself friggen trying to pull it out of there mouths when they are eating :)

Adam, as far as the moss is concerned, I am actually trying somthing new, I have a big rubbermaid with a hole in...(The one the durms came in) ..and made a mixture on dirt, sand, lots of moss, and oak leafs in it. At the moment I am keeping it wetter than you may think(ilike ifyou squeezed the stuff you could ring water out), its under the radient heat element and lamp.
My idea/thought is to see if it will act as a "sauna" kinda thing to keep the humidity up. It also a place for the monitors to go in if they actually want another wet area other than that bath.

So to answer you question Adam, I do not know if it holds a burrow and it never dries out... My guess is it would if there is enought dirt.

Come up and see it.... I have also started to "power feed" the Albig so let me know when you need him.


B

[treevaranus]

In response to the thought of soil from outside introducing mites that can harm your monitor, I think that is impossible, as most mites are species/genera specific, and mites from here in North America will not be able to feed off of an old world monitor lizard... The same goes for the mites that exist in captivity with snakes. These mites are some tropical/exotic species that was introduced to people's collections through the pet trade, not from branches or substrate that was taken from the outside..

The only thing I would be concerned with is the possibility of introducing soil which has been exposed to pesticides... Other than that, I think dirt from outside should be just fine..

As for me, I use no substrate, instead, I use an all water resevoir at the bottom with a drain. My tree monitors very rarely came down and used the ground when I did offer it, so I did away with it. This system I have now aids in humidiity, and makes cleaning much easier and more efficient, as all I have to do now is spray down the walls, branches, and foliage of the enclosure, and drain all the waste water out through the drain... I am please with how well it works...

Of course this wouldn't work for any other monitor species, as there aren't any other truly arboreal species, like V. prasinus...

Cheers folks,

Bob
treemonitors.com (http://www.treemonitors.com)

[SHvar]

They cannot live off of a host for long. Besides, those predatory mites that are sold to get rid of reptile mites are found commonly in the top few inches of soil, of course they only live about 9 days.
In all of the years that Ive kept reptiles Ive never had a reptile get mites from anything in my cages, or should I word it this way, never had one get mites after I got the reptile, but Ive gotten reptiles that had mites from petstores, etc.
Mites spread from one reptile to another, and cages kept in lousey conditions not cleaned between residents.
I use dirt with every reptile, all of my lizards now use outdoor field dirt that was delivered to me by a dump truck.
When you dont know any better the idea of using outdoor dirt and leaf litter scares some people. Of course bad info in lousey books is a big problem in our hobby. Potting soil, and other recycled organic materiels gets moldy, its after all organic so it rots. More than being worried about breathing problems from mold etc in my reptiles, Id be worried about breathing problems for me, Im the one who has asthma. Respiratory infections come from animals kept completely wrong, stressed, way too cool, etc, not from usable substrates.

[boywithscales]

Iv been using dirt from my yard, ive only had my monitor for a few days so ill tell ya how it works in a week

[mbayless]

Thanks all,
I was curious what others use - I used potting soil too, but I noted mold after a few weeks, as I kept my soil somewhat wetter than I liked - the albiularsi did not care though....I never saw a monitor mite on any of my animnals ever - only ticks, and lots of them! I wrote about that in 2000, and tick grooming behavior too.

Many Thanks, enjoyed reading these alot...even old time keepers like to see what works, and use it....

For the fellow w/peach-throats, have you considered using a similar set up as Bob uses with prasinus = both are arboreal.

cheers, Thanks,
markb

[crocdoc]

Originally posted by treevaranus
In response to the thought of soil from outside introducing mites that can harm your monitor, I think that is impossible, as most mites are species/genera specific, and mites from here in North America will not be able to feed off of an old world monitor lizardtreemonitors.com (http://www.treemonitors.com)

Just to let you guys know, I collect my leaf litter from an area that does have wild monitors, of the very same species as my captives, yet I still don't have a problem with mites, ticks or any other parasite.

[monitor12345]

well thats true, i did get it from a book never experienced it first hand though

[mbayless]

Both ticks and mites are species specific, and as we have noted earlier posts, Varanus excrete pheromones like Michael Jackson excretes **** at his trial!

These pheromones attract the ticks and mites, as these nasty inveterate invertebrates do not have eyes, only a mouth... so they probably smell their way to the lizard, hop aboard and suck on those lizards (* edited out by DragnDrop)

cheers,
markb

*let's keep it PG-13, shall we?
~DragnDrop