incubator is set up

[smeagel]

Ok, I set up my incubator as per Jeff's recomendations. A rubbermaid lined with styrofoam and a plastic lineing over the styrofoam. I watched Dr. Sewards video and the Sutherlands use a piece of glass as the top of their egg box. My question is could i use the glass as the top of my incubator as well or will the heat loss be too great thus making the incubator heat source work too hard. I would like to be able to look at the eggs withou opening the incubator lid and loosing heat, again making the heat source work too hard. Any suggestions or opinions would be appreciated. Thanx.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Glass loses heat almost as fast as no lid at all.

[smeagel]

alrighty than insulated lid it is. what about a glass lid on the egg container?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Yep, that would work fine. Most people use that.

[smeagel]

Ok, my temps have leveled off in the incubator at 92.5 That sounds a tad high to me but I would like to know what the experts think.

[smeagel]

well, now i've checked several times, and the temp fluctuates between 89.1 and 92.5. Is there anyway that i can get the temp more stable?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Too high. Aim for 90F. Add a brick, more water, gel packs, more subtrate, etc etc etc. Anything to act as a heat sink (temp. moderator). That should eliminate fluctuations IF your incubator is insulated well. If not, then that's your problem and you need to insulate it better. If it has a proper thermostat, then there's no way the temps should fluctuate.

[mykee]

If the air temp outside your incubator is 89-90-ish, then glass would be an ideal top for your incubator, but if you're producing all the heat that you'll use in the incubator, glass sucks. I think that aiming for 90 is too high though, I had my incubator set at 89 and I was documenting temps between 88.8 and 90.8. I set my incubator to 88 with my Helix and am now getting temps between 88.2 and 90 (liking that much better). Try to keep your temps between 88-91, no higher, no lower.

Keep in mind that even the best thermostat, regardless of what they claim, will have at least a 1 degree variance.

[smeagel]

OK, I added two more bricks and some more water. I am getting temps between 88.9 and 90.2. That sounds pretty good to me.

[mykee]

Better than mine...
Keep an eye on the temperatures over a weeks' time, that should give you a better indication.

[JDouglas]

Ya that sounds pretty good.

I was wondering how long it took for both of your incubators to fluctuate the 1.3F and 1.8F?


I have eggs incubating and have been keeping track of my temps everyday. Here is what I have...

Day 1: 89.3 - 87.2 (after putting eggs in and heating up)
Day 2: 89.3 - 89.0
Day 3: 89.3 - 89.0
Day 4: 89.3 - 89.0
Day 5: 89.3 - 89.0
Day 6: 89.3 - 88.6
Day 7: 89.5 - 88.6 (Opened incubator to add another egg chamber with more eggs)
Day 8: 89.0 - 88.8
Day 9: 89.0 - 88.8
Day 10: 89.0 - 88.8
Day 11: 89.0 - 88.8
Day 12: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 13: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 14: 89.0 - 86.8 (Opened egg chambers to let fresh air in)
Day 15: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 16: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 17: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 18: 89.0 - 88.8
Day 19: 89.0 - 85.9 (Opened egg chamber to let fresh air in)
Day 20: 89.0 - 88.4
Day 21: 89.0 - 83.0 (Opened egg chamber to remove moldy eggs)
Day 22: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 23: 89.0 - 88.4
Day 24: 88.8 - 88.6
Day 25: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 26: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 27: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 28: 89.0 - 88.8
Day 29: 89.0 - 88.8
Day 30: 89.0 - 86.6(Opened egg chambers to let fresh air in)
Day 31: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 32: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 33: 89.0 - 88.6
Day 34: 88.8 - 88.4
Day 35: 88.8 - 88.6
Day 36: 88.8 - 86.1 (Opened egg chamber to let fresh air in)
Day 37: 88.8 - 88.4
Day 38: 88.8 - 88.4
Day 39: 88.8 - 88.4
Day 40: 88.8 - 88.6
Day 41: 88.8 - 88.6

Total Fluctuation: 89.3 - 88.4F or +/- 0.45F
Daily Fluctution AVG = 0.344F or +/- 0.172F
(Not including days when egg chambers were opened to add fresh air or remove bad eggs.)

Recovery time to set point after opening the egg chamber was about 15 minutes.

These temperatures are air temperatures taken with a digital thermometer probe inside the egg chamber. Jaremy

[smeagel]

my temps. spiked to 91.2 today for about 10 minutes. then 2 hours later it was spiking again. what could be causing this? wht can be done to rectify it?

[mykee]

Smeagel; ain't nothing you can do, like I said, even the best digital termometers with probes have their "issues". I would not worry about it. I currently have two probes in each egg box and I get a differential of almost a degree. Go figure.
Jaremy; I've had my incubator running for over two months now, even though I still have nothing in it. I like to test, re-test and re-re-test everything so I can catch a problem before there are eggs in there.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Man, you guys are stressin' ME out! And I NEVER have gotten stressed about incubatin'!! Its the easiest part of the whole dang process!!!

LOL!

[smeagel]

LOL. Jeff. Hope your not pullin your hair out cause of me man!

[smeagel]

Are Helix probes submersible? Where is the optimale placing for the probe if there is any. I have been told by a couple people (not on this forum though) that they put their Helix probes in the water. But it doesn't sound right to me to be monitoring the water temp instead of the air temp.

[mykee]

If the eggs will be sitting in the water (???) then you shoudl put the probe in the water (yes, they are submersible).

Now assuming you have an incubator that is very similar to Jeff's, a big insulated box with water and bricks, I would place the probe in the incubator, set it up dead center between your egg boxes so that you get the same air temperature that the eggs woudl be getting.

[jglass38]

Wow! Glad to see I am not the only nutcase here! I check that damn thermometer 50 times a day. I have 6 eggs incubating in rubbermaid with a glass top inside a coleman cooler. My temps never go below 88.7 and never above 90.8. In fact they only 88.7, 89.2, 89.8 and 90.8. Not much that can be done now though. This is my first year of breeding and its pretty damn exciting!

Jamie

[smeagel]

What about a piece of plexi glass as the top of the rubbermaid. Will that loose heat as much as reg. glass? I want some way that I can see the eggs without haing to open the incubator, cause when I open it It looses a ton of heat. Going way below the absolute low temp for the eggs. I know i'm being annoying here with all these questions.

[Jeff_Favelle]

What exactly are you expecting the eggs to do that you want to watch them so much? LOL! They are QUITE boring. Just white blobs that sit there for 2 months.

If you want something clear that retains heat, then go with thermal pane glass. Its 2 pieces of glass with a gas inside. Used for sliding glass doors.

[mykee]

Used for windows too Jeff. Smeagel, you're worrying more than me, and I didn't think that was possible. Plexi has the same heat retention values as glass; crapola. Opening the incubator is a necessary evil, especially if you have your eggs in egg boxes, they'll need to be aerated every couple of weeks or so, as for the "absolute lowest temp" when you open the incubator, don't worry, the eggs themselves will retain the heat for much longer than you think. Don't worry about it.

[smeagel]

I guess i'm just worried about the humidity not being high enough inside the egg box, but i'm probably just worrying way too much. Sorry for bothering you so much mykee and jeff. You've both been a huge help. :)

[mykee]

If you see condensation on the inside walls of your egg boxes, your humidity is high enough.

"What I really need is someone to hold me and tell me that everything is going to be alright".
"Everything is going to be alright". - The Wedding Singer

[JDouglas]

Actually condensation on the walls could cause problems and is not a good indicator of how high the humidity is in an egg chamber. If condensation is occurring at a rate that is equal to evaporation you will have a dry box with wet sides.

Also, condensation on the sides of the egg chamber can cause your substrate to dry out. As the water evaporates from the vermiculite it will run down the sides and back into the substrate around the edges. After awhile the vermiculite around the outside will be soaked and the center will dry out. If the eggs are in the center they will also dry out.

Condensation on the top can cause drips to form and fall onto the eggs.

If the temperature in your incubator is even you will not nave any condensation. Instead the air will become saturated to 100% humidity. If the walls of the egg chamber are cooler than the rest of the incubator condensation will form.

If you use a fan to circulate the air outside the egg chamber this will help even out temps. Also if you use the no substrate method you will avoid the problems from the substrate drying out but would still have to worry about drips.

[jglass38]

I was wondering why i see no condensation! I am using vermiculite for a substrate. I have the rubbermaid container for the eggs inside a coleman cooler.

[smeagel]

My Helix and my digital thermometer have a difference in temp readings. My Helix says 89, and my other digital ( a cheap Walmart digital) says 87.3 Which one do I believe? They are side by side so they should be getting the same reading shouldn't they?

[Jeff_Favelle]

I've always has condensation on the sides of my eggs boxes, the glass covering the egg boxes, the sides of my incubator, the lid of my incubator, etc etc etc.

[peterm15]

hey jeff just to clarify about thermal pane windows.. there is no gas in between unless you get it put in ( argon ) but even then it just adds more expence... its adds a little more of an R factor but not very much... basicly a 5/8 thick unit with argon will have the same insoulating power as a 1" thick unit...

smeagal and with all the condensation that would build up you wouldnt be able to see anyways...

JEFF p.s. im not trying to prove you rong or anything i just wouldnt want you or anyone else being ripped off by the numberous window guys out there.. if your house has argon windows then get them.. theres a slight colour difference... if they tell you you dont but there alot better its bull.... there just trying to get more money off ya...

[Jeff_Favelle]

No worries Pete! I wouldn't use glass on ANYTHING that I wanted an R-value for anyways, LOL!

Cheers bro. :)

[JDouglas]

Jeff with your set up condensation may not be an issue because your entire incubator is at high humidity and the condensation must be minor. I think it is more detrimental if using a dry incubator like mine. Most python eggs will hatch just fine with 70% humidity.

Here is a pic of my egg chamber in my incubator. As you can see their isn't any condensation except for on the front near the glass. Even with two fans circulating the air the glass still allows the temps to be a bit cooler causing condensation. Had I a put more space between the egg chamber and the glass I may not have had any condensation.
http://showcase.netins.net/web/reptiless/stuff/incubator2.jpg

I would recommend going to the VPI Mailbag and reading what Dave and Tracy have to say about condensation. Their are several infomative entries. Just type condensation in the search box...
VPI Mail Bag Link (http://www.vpi.com/VPIMailBag/vsforum.asp)

[Dom]

Interesting subjects .. Can I say the best advise that I have ever learned .. Especially to the ppl who want to see there eggs..

The more often you open you egg box the lower your hatch out percentage..

[smeagel]

My temps have settled in at 90.6 for the last 5 days.

[crocdoc]

Originally posted by JDouglas
... If condensation is occurring at a rate that is equal to evaporation you will have a dry box with wet sides.

Also, condensation on the sides of the egg chamber can cause your substrate to dry out. As the water evaporates from the vermiculite it will run down the sides and back into the substrate around the edges. After awhile the vermiculite around the outside will be soaked and the center will dry out. If the eggs are in the center they will also dry out...

...If the temperature in your incubator is even you will not nave any condensation. Instead the air will become saturated to 100% humidity. If the walls of the egg chamber are cooler than the rest of the incubator condensation will form.

I get a small amount of condensation on one side of my egg boxes, not dissimilar to that seen in the photo you have posted. In summer (when my incubator is in the garage to avoid overheating) the left hand side of the egg box gets a small amount of condensation because the incubator is near my reptile food freezer (I have since put some insulating material in between). In winter (when the incubator is in my home) the left hand side of the egg box gets a small amount of condensation because that is the side closest to the door.

Now this is where it gets interesting. As I am incubating lace monitor eggs rather than python eggs, the incubation time is much much longer and during the course of that time the slight difference in humidity between the centre and the sides of the egg boxes starts to show effects. Last year, the eggs in the centre of the box hatched a fair bit sooner, in line with some scientific studies of monitor eggs which showed that eggs incubated on a slightly drier substrate hatch sooner than those incubated on a slightly wetter substrate. For my eggs, the difference between the eggs in the middle and the eggs on the side ranged from 20 to 40 days (ie the eggs near the walls of the egg box sometimes took as much as 40 days longer to hatch than the ones in the middle).

This year, I've started to use the difference in humidity to my advantage. One of the eggs in the middle was a bit dimpled, so I gave it a spell near the left hand side of the egg box and it filled out within a week.