Pine Bedding?

[Rikki]

Would Pine Bedding be ok in a nile monitors enclosure? I have seen it many times at pet stores and I have alot of it stored right now (purchased for my hamsters). Would it be at all possible to have pine shavings (fine shavings) in a nile monitors or iguanas enclosure?

[coldblooded]

I don't think Pine is good for your monitor... I know cedar is a no-no, and I believe pine is a bad choice as well.

Don't take my word for it, though.


I hear newspaper is a great natural substrate... :rolleyes:

Mike

[Jeff_Favelle]

It would probably be the 2nd WORST bedding you could possibly use. (The worst being Astro-Turf).

[coldblooded]

Oh, just grab some Cypress mulch from a garden store, it's like $3.00 canadian for a huge bag... so that's like, a nickel american. :)

Mike

[Rikki]

I understand, its just I have so much of this bedding left over, and have no use for it. Would it actually harm my monitor, or are you just saying it wouldnt look nice? Thanks for your advice.

[HeatherRose]

They're saying it would more than harm him. Pine and cedar are known to contain phenols toxic to lizards.

[Rikki]

Thank you, ill go with news paper more than likley, its much eaier to clean...

[coldblooded]

This is the first thing I found searching with "pine substrate for lizards":


"extracts of cedar and other soft woods, such as pine, contain a number of aromatic (volatile) compounds including hydrocarbons, cedrene and cadrol... these compounds are known irritants of skin, and cause... degeneration and death of the cells in the respiratory tract."


Here's a quick link to the whole thing:

http://www.anapsid.org/cedar.html

Mike

[coldblooded]

No,no,no,no...

I was just KIDDING about the newspaper, man...

Please, don't use the paper.

Go to home Depot ( or whatever they have in the states) and buy some non-sterile dirt that has nothing added to it and use that then, or get some sort of mulch.

For God's sake, don't make the thing suffer on newspaper.


Mike

[Rikki]

What? Thats the first time I have ever heard that, I have used news paper for years, most breeders and private keepers do.

[V.hb]

I personally wouldnt worry about pine being toxic.

The reason why pine bedding sucks is because as jeff said its just about as useless as astro turf. the lizard can't use this substrate. It doesn't hold moisture, so it cannot provide the monitor with what it needs to make its own burrow. Monitors are active, they like to dig and burrow. Putting one on pine is just useless. Cypress is a bit better, but still isn't as good as good ol' FREE dirt. :)

[coldblooded]

OK whatever, then...

Keep your monitor on newspaper and the rest of your herps on it as well...

'Cause you know that nothing beats the good ol' natural substrate we like to call newspaper. :rolleyes:


Yes, I guess newspaper is easier to clean up, and it's cheap and hmm, easy, I guess... but, you're only thinking of yourself and not the herp! Your monitor doesn't care if it's easier to clean up or if it is cheaper... It's an issue you have.

Everyone makes a big deal about what substrate to put their feeders on and how to care "PROPERLY" for their herps, yet everyone (not all) still thinks that newspaper is great.

Why even think of other substrates when you seem to know that everyone and their brother uses newspaper and they have no problem?

I know nothing I ever say will change that, but I know that I don't use newspaper (maybe in quarantine) and at the end of the day the happiness and well being of my herps is all that matters to me.


Maybe you should use the colour comics, I hear they're extra absorbant... :rolleyes:


Have a good evening and I hope all goes well with you.

Mike

[Rikki]

No need to go sarcastic.

[Rikki]

Potting soil seems great, it should be easy and natural. What do you think?

[V.hb]

potting soil sucks, doesnt hold burrows. Go outside and digup a bucket of dirt :)

[Rikki]

I am far too lazy, lol. Hmmmm....

[coldblooded]

I'm a lover of sarcasm...

Anywho... I purchased a bag of "Black Earth", a loamy (spongey) dirt that has not been sterilized and does not have any fertilizer, perlite, vermiculite, ect, in it. By not sterile, I mean biologically active, so if you happen to miss some poo it will decompose.

Although, I did have a hard time keeping the dirt from turning to dust, it looked as though my little guy had more fun in the dirt than on the crappy "Jungle Earth" wood chips he's on now.

I'm just not going back to dirt until the new enclosure.

I don't know how much nile's like to dig, but I'd use at least a foot of slightly compressed dirt.


Mike

[coldblooded]

oh, they come in 50 lb bags (dirt) for about $2.88 CAD

Maybe try OAK leaves, if you can find 'em?


Mike

[Jeff_Favelle]

I am far too lazy, lol. Hmmmm....


I think its time for you to give your monitor away to someone who is willing/able to actually care for it.

I have used news paper for years, most breeders and private keepers do.

Please quantify that lie.

[Rikki]

I care for my monitor with the best way, and doing a simple search on Google you will find over 1,000 results of keeping news paper with reptiles. Please stop trying to argue.

Any how everyone, thanks for your suggestions I just purchased "Natural Earth Bedding" it says its designed for burrowing. It cost me $30.00 total. I wouldnt say I dont care for my monitor, I doubt your someone to say I dont ;)

If your going to try to start something, please dont post at all.

[HeatherRose]

If you know best, why post your inquiries on these forums at all?

I can go on Google and find tons of pages telling me to put my snakes on sand. I can also go blow 80$ on sand, does this make me a stellar snake keeper?

I rarely frequent this forum, but it absolutley blows my mind that you would argue with these particular members when it comes to monitor lizard care.

[Rikki]

Where am I arguing? I have said thank you for your suggestions many times, and I just went out and bought some bedding I was told to get. How is that not listening or arguing? Everything was going fine until you came to this topic.

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Rikki
I care for my monitor with the best way, and doing a simple search on Google you will find over 1,000 results of keeping news paper with reptiles. Please stop trying to argue.

You're talking about Monitors though, not Reptiles in General. What's good for my Boas isn't always good for your monitor :)

-Matt

[HeatherRose]

:rolleyes:

My coming into this topic was to explain why pine was regarded as bad because the phenols are sometimes toxic to herps, over there on page 1...

Good try though. http://www.pitbullforum.com/images/smiles/thumbsup.gif

[Rikki]

I have read that part, and thats why I didnt go with the pine bedding, I went with natural earth... Thank you everyone for your help, I greatly appreciate it :)

[kap10cavy]

Direction for good substrate

1. Get a shovel.
2. Exert some energy and dig a hole.
3. Seperate rocks from dirt you dug from hole.
4. Add dirt to cage.

Scott

[Jeff_Favelle]

EXACTLY.

Then read this: OR, read it before. OR, read it before, then after, then once more:

http://www.varanus.net/faq/housing.htm

[prcdslnc13]

listen to jeff and dont start something yourself. i keep monitors also and trust me on this him v.hb and shvar know what they are talking about and have helped me out a few times. listen and learn and never ever ever put that thing on newspaper again. think of like you sleeping on a concrete bed with no blankets. thats how newpaper is to a monitor

[coldblooded]

Good luck with your monitor.

Glad you didn't use newspaper, I had bad dreams all night last night. :)

Mike