Anyone else love keeping feeders?

[Iguanalady]

Keeping my own rats for food is not all that more economical than buying them. Its not easy either. I just really enjoy rats. I have a couple that I won't ever feed off that are favorites. I raise my rat pups right...give them plenty of handling and stimulation and play. When I dispatch them I try to make them feel totally safe and cozy before and try not to let them know what is coming. YEs I am a bit of an oddball I guess. I never have trouble with attachment. If a rat is food it is food. I get a few favs in the babies and sometimes I sell them as pets but if I can't I have no problem with doing the deed when the time comes. The funny thing is that killing an animal for food gives you a whole new perpective on the whole cycle of life and death thing. Its almost spiritual....makes you understand what those early culture really were up to with the whole sacrifice thing. You get this profound sense that you have taken a life for your (or your animals) benefit and makes you respect the creature and its "gift".

Yeah so I'm weird.

[Syst3m]

I'm pretty fond of a few of my feeder rats, right now I have 2 beige hoodeds that are safe from the slaughter. I also decided to throw some fun into it. I got myself a Albino t+, a black dumbo, a blue hooded dumbo, and a blue rat. I'm going to try and breed some nice looking blue dumbo, Plus some of the beige hooded I have are some great little pets. The pinks that are starting to fuzz up right now from my beige capped girl are really looking like some killer capped rats. I figure I'm going to have a heck of alot of fun with the genetics soon and be able to earn a little bit of store credit with my blues and dumbo. Mice, I hate. Rats on the other hand are so much more friendly, its hard to not like them. As far as attachment goes, I've already dispached of my favorite male albino, got sick and couldn't do anything for him. Just made sure it was quick. I've had to put a few others down that I like along the way too. And its kind of wierd having a food chain growing in my house. Gives you a little more respect for nature. And gives me a little more respect for my snakes, knowing that I put alot of time and effort into producing only the healthiest food for them. What strange people we snake breeders can be ! Cheers to any of you other rat/snake lovers.

[Linds]

I love raising my own feeders because I can control the quality of the feeders, make sure they are clean and fed properly. I am not a huge rat fan in the sense that I am not terribly fascinated with them, and I don't really care to tinkle with genetics, but I do have a soft heart for anything that lives, which is why I kinda don't liek raising my own feeders, I get attached from time to time, expecially to the old breeder females for some reason, and have a hell of a time killing them off. I have absolutely NO space to keep anymreo though, I already have one pet rat named Winky. He's a little black rex coated rat that I just couldn't let go. He was a runy, I left him with his mother for nearly 3 months because that's how long it took him to reach the size of regular wenalings :eek: During that period he lost all his hair, and eventually grew it back. He used to shake alot and always crawl along the ground instead of walking. He's now a good sized healthy boy, he's terrified of heights, doesn't really shake, can walk normally, but often crawls around still and winks (hence the name). Sure is rambunctious, jumps like you woudln't believe....lol :p

[Tim_Cranwill]

Well, I must admit that a fuzzy mouse that is just starting to crawl around the cage is pretty cute. But I HATE keeping the stinky little buggers. I do like the control over food quality that my snakes get and the fact that I save myself almost $50 a week. I might just be down on the whole mouse thing since my 3 colonies of 1.5 aren't keeping up with my snakes' appetites.

Just one question...

If I want to feed 12 snakes 1 pinky or fuzzy every 4 days, should 15 breeding female mice be enough? I calculated 10 babies per mom every 40 days. Does that sound right? It's not working out so far...

Thanks.

[Pixie]

I breed my own mice and have to admit that I like the little buggers. Not that I play with them much aside from the numerous cleanings and feedings, I do enjoy very much watching the cycle of life evolve in front of my eyes. I get upset when one of them dies or isn't doing well. God forbid some of them don't get along and fight, I'm there to supervise and do switches to accomodate their supposed personalities. My adult breeders all have names and see me once a day when I check on them.

It was really hard for me at first for me to feed off some of my young ones to my snakes. Having seen them born and grown, I felt guilty feeding them to my snakes. I've gotten better with time over this issue but those cute little fuzzies are so hard to see being eaten. I felt especially guilty seeing the mom go back to her nest to see most if not all her babies gone. This versus the ones I used to get from the store, at least those I didn't see for more than a few hours so it didn't hurt as much.

Although I only have these mice for food and they stink like crazy, they are cute and they grow on you. I remind myself that I breed them for my snakes and to control the quality of what my snakes eat but I still have some hard moments.

[Aaron_S]

Do you any of you people who breed your feeders find that it is a better way of feeding your snakes?Like is it worth the time you put into them for the cleaning and feedings?

[Cas]

I've really begun to enjoy my mice - I find it relaxing to sit and watch them just being mice (kind of like watching furry goldfish *L*). I've actually become desensitized to the mouse smell - I barely notice it anymore - if I hadn't, I'd probably still hate them too.
I also like being able to play with the genetics, and even just seeing what colors are going to pop up in a litter (killing off pinkies is gonna suck - "but, but, I don't know what color it would have been!" *lol*)

I do have a bit of an attachement to some of the breeders (particularily the ones that I was keeping in an aquarium... the rack is very useful in making them harder to watch and 'get to know' *L*). My agouti broken boy Dopey especially will likely be spared becoming a feeder for a long time - he came with a notch out of his ear and a kinked tail tip, and he walks around all the time with his eyes half closed. Then there's Auntie, the broken black and tan female who has so far had only one pinky, and it disappeared - but she makes such a good helper that she'll probably be around a long time (she spends more time in a nest than the actual mom does!). And there's the little broken black hopper girl in the tub of 11 hoppers... all the other hoppers run and hide when I open up the tub, this girl meanders over and checks out my fingers or walks into my hand every time (little freak *L*)... lucky me she was intended to be another breeder anyway.

Generally though, I find that unless they're particularily friendly, or have really interesting markings or personalities, I don't really get attached to them, even though the hoppers are so cute. (I'd probably be in real trouble if I started to breed rats though!)

Dawn

[Tim_Cranwill]

Aaron, since I have switched to buying bulk food and wood chips, it has made it more "worth it". I still haven't found that magical sustaining number of breeders that I need, but at this point I'll keep trying 'til I find it.

I guess it comes down to how committed you are. It does take time, effort and a weak since of smell;), but it's up to you. I was told, I guess by some uninformed folks, that "if you keep a pair of mice together and don't kill any babies, in a year you will have over one million mice"... not so true in my house.

Do you guys ever switch males from one colony to the another?

[Pixie]

I do switch males from one female to another. I have a different setup than most I imagine. I have my mice in 5 medium or large critter keepers, having more than 2 or 3 mice in one isn't good in my case. The largest keepers are used for the two producing females I have at the moment and I have one male going from one to the other. I personally don't like leaving the male in with the mom and her babies so I put him in with the other one when she gives birth. I seem to have "timed" my two producing females well, since I get litters at different times. While a female is raising her babies, I arrange "conjugal visits" with the male for an hour over the first week. It works well for me and I haven't lost a pinky yet though it can be more time consuming my way.

The other setups I have have 1 or 2 females to 1 male but haven't produced yet, that I will see in the next couple of weeks. They are new arrivals or younger mice. In one, I will try to leave the male in with the female all the time to see how things go.

This works well for me and I prefer the plastic keepers as they are easily cleaned and more managable to move around.

[Linds]

Aaron,
I find it completely worthwhile. You never really know what your getting when you buy them elsewhere, when you breed em yourself you know and can control the quality of your feeders. If your smart about your supplies it will be economical too. If you purchase all your stuff at a pet shop, chances are you will be spending more than your saving (ie- 7 cu. ft. shavings $14.99 (pet store) vs. 10 cu. ft. shavings $3.99 (co-op), etc.) Hope this helps :)

[vanderkm]

Hi Aaron,
It is definately worth it for us in terms of cost of feed and shavings compared with buying feeder mice, though it would be close to the same cost if we bought frozen in very large numbers. The best part is the control you have over nutrition of prey animals and the convenience of your own supply. The time for care is very little if you plan a good setup, but the rodent smell and dust are issues if you don't have a separate room or building to keep them in.
I actually quite like the mice, have really enjoyed playing with genetics (first for fancy colors and now selecting for growth rate and feed efficiency) - but I think you really tend to do a better job of raising feeders if you enjoy working with the species than if you do it to save money.

Mary v.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Do you guys keep records such has who had how many babies and when they had them?

What is the average time between litters for moms?

[Iguanalady]

To all you mouse keepers who find them stinky....try rats!! They are lovely, clean, intelligent and friendly! Best of all they dont stink! If you dont need anything smaller than a fuzzie mouse rats will do ya as a rat pup is about the equivalent of a fuzzie/hopper or somewhere in there. One thing tho is that there are stubborn snakes who stick like glue to mice and they will starve rather than eat a rat pup! arg!

Aaron...its worth it if you can also enjoy keeping the animal otherwise if you have 30 herps to clean and feed and barely find the time for that the rodents will become a hassle.

Cramwell the average litter of rats is about 13. Moms will sometimes eat their young if you dont feed them enough. I have taken to feeding expectant moms twice a day. 5 lab blocks int he a.m. and a few extra (depending on how many are left) at night. Since I've been doing that I have had no cannibalism. Males can trusted with babies as long as they are his or he thinks they could be. If you put a female rat in with a male and she gives birth 11 days or less after that date he will kill her babies....since her pregnancy should be 21 days he knows!!

[Syst3m]

Aaron,
I feel that its absolutly worth it to breed your own feeders.

1. You know the quality, if your not satisified with the quality you have only yourself to blame.

2. Its WAY cheaper in the long run. Thats as long as you buy in bulk.

3. Teaches you a ton about life, and I think it makes you respect the whole process of keeping and breeding snakes.


Cranwill,

The Typical average is usually 8. Those numbers are only relative to the size and age of the animal. Iguana lady probably has some good sized breeding females. Or Some very nice stock. I find the best way is to do my math with the number 8.
Some of my best litters came from my 4 month old moms who never gave a litter. 4 months I think is about the best age to start them. Litters come about once a month. The first litter for mice comes in 19-21 days (almost ALWAYS 21) and rats its between 21-23, When a rat or mouse is nursing babys delayed implantation usually happens, that means the litters take longer to come. Usually between 27-29 days. I think this is to help the current litter to grow enough to be weened. So I think you just need to do some math on your mice and rats, just figure in 8 babys every 30 days. And even if you breed to many just keep them in the fridge, if you breed an excess of them you might be able to sell them to your local pet store as feeders. I know my local pet store would gladly give me some store credit for a bag of frozen feeders.

I've actually switched to almost all rats. They Smell WAY less, and they almost never eat their first litter. I keep a 1.6 colonly around for me and my friends to keep us stocked in pinks and fuzzys. Mainly because my girlfriends corn can't eat rat pinks very easy and my friends jungle carpets like fur on the prey for some reason.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Thanks Syst3m! That's what I was looking for:)

[Iguanalady]

Really...only 8 per litter? I have never had less than 10. Maybe our BC rats are gentic mutants! LOL. I had one litter of 15 once. The very first litter my female had when she was only about 3-4 months old was 14.

[Lisa]

I'm afraid I'd get too attached to the mouse and not be able to kill it to feed it to the snake.

[Linds]

I usually kill mine off once they get down to 8 per litter. My mice usually average 18 per litter, my rats average 14....

[Syst3m]

I just say 8 per litter becuase most of the mice/rat breeding web pages I see say 8. So its a good base point. I usually get 12-16 per litter in my mice. My rats are anywhere from 8-14.

I find it best to average the numbers on 8 per litter, That way you will always have extra food. But in truth 12 seems to be the true average of my mice and rats. But from what I read from people who breed for show they seem to think 8 is the average.

[AaliahReed]

We keep both rats and mice,
tho i have found that when the mice start to smell it means i am a bit late with cleaning, i also find they do eat the baby's on occasion,and the mice seem to take a whole lot more looking after than the rats,

[Blueeheeler]

:) I have 3 snakes that I feed regularly, on top of that I sell some of my feeders to other people in the neighborhood that have snakes to feed with the rats and mice that I breed. I find that is more than worth my time and effort. I know what and where my food come from for my snakes no ?'s asked. My neighbors have stopped going to the feed store for their feed, and they are completely happy with what I offer.

As for my set up I have 1 male rat to 3 female rats. The male is on the move contiunually as he visits all of my females, they are all kept seperate from each other. I have a nursery for the mom and her babies so they are seperate from all other rats before birth and until they are 3 weeks old them I move the babies to the baby tank and mom goes back to her tank. By the time 3 weeks is up I have another female ready to go into the nursery and so on, this is how I keep my breeders going. I had 2 mice, one of each, male and female but the male decided to go postal on the female so I froze him for food. YES all of my snakes eat prekilled food. I have found in the short time that I have had herps and feeders, all has worked out just fine and I have saved and made a great deal of money doing this. Granted I do not breed my snakes at this time but some day I do hope to breed my RTB and my Charcoal AnreyB Corn Snake.



The picture is of 2 of the snakes that I feed. The female is mine and Her name is Abee and the male is part of my extended family he is the husband his name is Sully. I hope to have them mate in 2004 when they are both old enough and better sized.

[escm]

two questions:

one: you guys who breed mice/rats, im assuming you feed your snakes pre-killed? If so how do you "do" a rodent nice and quick and painless?

two: (sorta off topic) where's a good place to pick up frozen mice/rats online? any recomendations? is it worth buying like 10 at a time (i.e. can I keep them in my freezer for a while?)



ok sorry that was more than two hehe...

[Iguanalady]

never keep a feeder frozen longer than 6 months

I usually break the neck with the corner end of a 2 by 4. I just hold the rat and place the 2by 4 over then neck and then press down hard and fast. Course mine are tame so you might get bit doing this with someone elses