Canadian Shipping - Is UPS willing?

[MichaelBoyko]

I have been frustrated with expensive shipping through our airlines! To ship across the country can cost as much as 200.00 and never under 100.00 for a shipment. This makes things VERY difficult for our herping community.

Currently, our American counterparts are enjoying as lows as 40.00 OVERNIGHT shipping for their herps! AND they deliver to your door!

It's no surprise that America's proliferation of morphs and quality herps is far greater than ours! So I made a few phone calls to FedEx and other popular couriers, but to no avail. They either WONT touch live cargo or else herps in specific!

I accidentally stumbled across this article at fuana classifieds:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/for....php/t-189.html

This fellow had the entire UPS management in his state bending over backwards trying to help him ship snakes, in specific. At that point in time they would ship most reptiles but NOT SNAKES. The reasoning was primarily the human innate phobia of them. His main angle was opening their eyes to the larger sales volumes they could incite by opening the doors to the snake community. He was surprisingly successful in his delegations with UPS!

This is a good sign.

Let me know what you Canadian guys think about this. If we could start couriers accepting snakes and other herps at competative prices our small Canadian community would ignite like a flame in a gasoline factory. And could we even HOPE to break down some of the walls stopping States/Canada shipping? One can only hope!

Some of the larger Canadian herp associations could start to shake the tree a bit with the big names in courier services.

OR!

If we started up a larger national association with members being smaller regional associations we could attack and coordinate the issues on all fronts! We would finally have a unified voice and a considerable sales mass in which to affect changes!

Sooner or later the world leaders would bend to our every wishes!

Is it just me, or does this sound exciting to everyone else?

[nareptiles]

I could not agree with you more,I am Canadian ,but have lived in the USA for 13 years just recently moving back here 6 months ago.While living there we had UPS,Fed Ex,USPS & DHL that would all ship animals next day all for under $100.00 ,in most cases they were around $35 to $45 for next day delivery from our door to thier door.We would not even have to leave, all we did was call and either DHL ,Fed Ex & UPS would come right to our door pick them up and ship them next day anywhere in the United states (with exceptions on rural areas that might be second day).We would rountinly ship out 10 to 20 boxes a day to customers all over the USA ,now we have to drive to the Airport to ship and it is not a very cost effective way for people to get there animals and ends up costing our customer another $100 to $140 more (depending on the province) for only one box ,now if you are buying as a pet store and getting multiple animals ,you can absorb that shipping price when selling your animals,but for the person who only wants one animal it is hard to justify paying that much to ship what might be only a $50 animal.There definetly needs to be a way in this Country to ship that is both cheaper and still safe for the animals .

North American Reptile & Supply Company
nareptiles@cogeco.ca

:grab:

[clint545]

So how do we go about this? Should we petition the couriers to show them that we are a major shipping market?
I myself am on the low end of the totem pole, not a major breeder but it would be nice if I could ship cross country at a reasonable price. It benifets the sellers and the buyers:)

[Jeff_Favelle]

It'll never happen. And they will STILL have to go through the airlines anyways (you can't drive a snake from Ontario to BC), so then they will have to insure heated flights, etc etc (the SAME things we have to do now)...

$200 for a shipment? How big are your boxes? Holy crap. I shipped 49 boxes in 2004 and the most expensive one was $134. And I live on ONE coast and I only had 4 orders from this side of the country.

Shipping is a fact of life. Don't like it, you're better off selling at shows.

[Stockwell]

Yup, I agree with Jeff, its not pretty but its a fact of life, and difinately is one trade limiting pain in the butt.
... The couriers have a huge problem here with potential liability if they accept animals that may freeze, boil, escape, etc. etc. This is a huge country with lots of unoccupied space between major centers. The logistics and travel times and sheer distance, combined with fuel costs in itself makes it unviable for ground transit. Plus as a client base , we redefine minority.
The very first time the press gets a hold of a story of an exotic animal shipment roasting or freezing in a courier truck the "humane-iacs" will have a field day and run their business right into the ground, not to mention the exotic animal trade business itself.(which we are all apart of)

Another separate issue is people are sometimes using couriers covertly, not honestly representing what is in the box... You have to watch out for that because if it's discovered, you might end up on charges filed by the SPCA. Most couriers wont take any liablity thus refuse animal shipments. If you decide you wont tell them its animals, then you accept the liability and charges if it comes to light you lied about the contents.
Even couriers in the states rarely willingly take exotics. The bottom line is they aren't equipped to control the temperature in vehicles or take into account possible stop overs in cargo centres where trucks and goods occasionally sit for days, possibly in the sun,or cold in a parking lot somewhere.
They'd have to completely rework their business practices if they were going to knowingly accept live freight.
This shipping problem is truely a big one,and I can't see it going away. If couriers are taking Herps in the states, then they are likely taking big risks doing so.
One big difference is that the US postal service does however allow turtles and lizards to be handled throught the postal service... But not snakes. Canada post accepts NO LIVE ANIMALS

In some states there are now some airlines that willnot accept snakes period. There have also been animal rights groups pressuring the airline industry for statistics on animal deaths caused by air cargo.
There has been rumblings for years that the airlines would stop accepting reptiles , and there is lots of pressure from activist groups which would like to see all airlines cease providing passage for all exotics...
I guess we're lucky we still have the luxury of having at least one public service that takes our live cargo, even if it isn't very economical for small orders.
Since 911, with fewer human travellers, soaring fuel costs, and security measures, and the entire airline industry still reeling to stay afloat,
things could get worse before they get better.
I had to abandoned a plan last year to fly some sand boas to Dallas TX, something that was no big deal a decade ago. Getting the CITES took only a few days but, Believe it or not, Air Canada no longer takes any CARGO period to DFW. DFW(dallas fort worth) is one of the largest airports in the US, yet Air Canada has no cargo at all to DFW.
This is because to save costs, they no longer use the big jets, but a series of regional carriers which have limited cargo space. Delta also is using regional planes in Texas as well and some wont take snakes.. The main Delta hub is Atlanta Ga, but I was informed they wont hold live animals overnight, making stop overs for connecting flights near impossible
I could have put it on a few airlines that stop over in Chicago, but guess what.. Chicago wont accept live cargo overnight either... why? I suspect because they are terrified of reprocussions if live cargo dies.
the profit aint worth the risk.

Incidentally , special thanks to Corey Woods who saved the day,by hand delivering my shipment to my US customer.

[reptiguy420]

Yeah that sucks but the going rates just went up for us americans too.I heard there jacking up the price of jet fuel, so now if you buy a darn bibron gecko for 10 bucks its gonna cost more than the animal 5 times fold just to get it.Its a bummer but hey i dont make the rules;)

[Painted Desert]

Uncle Roy, I was always under the belief that Canada Post will ship live bees and chicks.... not true?

[Matt_K]

Canda Post will DEFINATLY send Bees.. I had to deliver three boxes of them in the summer.

-Matt

[DragnDrop]

Live bees and chicks are okay under certain conditions.

You can check the list at Canada Post Non-mailable Matter (http://www.canadapost.ca/common/tools/pg/manual/b07-e.asp)

Animals Live animals cannot be mailed unless the mailer has entered a special agreement with Canada Post. Bees, day-old chicks, parasites and leeches can be mailed under certain conditions. Go to Section B – Chapter 4, Planning a Mailing.

dang it all... I could have saved myself a ton of money by mailing The Old Parasitic Leech across the country, instead of paying for a divorce ;)

[Stockwell]

Originally posted by Painted Desert
Uncle Roy, I was always under the belief that Canada Post will ship live bees and chicks.... not true?

Now that you mention it, I think Katt or Vanan posted last year that they will indeed take bees and eggs or chicks possibly.. Farm staples maybe these are considered possibly with a very long history
Even that seems weird to me... No dangerous Geckos or turtles but Bees are OK.?? It must be simply an education thing.
Can you just imagine if bees got out in a Canada post truck..
Wow, I rather be in a truck with a loose rattlesnake than a loose hive of bees.. but thats a herpers point of view. Maybe they are only mailed with the queen so they wouldn't leave her even if the box opened.. I must admit I'm no expert on bees but I think they'd be considered potentially dangerous given some people alergies.

[HumphreyBoagart]

Bees!?! What the heck are people shipping bees for?

[Stockwell]

Its weird alright.. I guess Bees are commonly traded between farmers.
I think we might have a loop hole.. Hilde quoted
"parasites and leeches can be mailed under certain conditions"
So just mail your snakes with mites and turtles with leeches..LOL

[MichaelBoyko]

I was talking to a friend whom just recently got his pilot's lisence... I jokingly made a comment wherein he could fly herps across the country!

But I don't think him and his little sesna would find that a very economical venture!

But what about the pet transports? I know they are primarily for birds and dogs and cats, but has anybody talked to them about accepting reptiles? Only problem is, most of them will only ship to the location where YOU will be, or they have only a few locations within a certian region they can transport. But other than those limitations, I don't know much about what is feasable through these companies.

[Cruciform]

If you could find enough trustworthy people, you could create a shipping network for breeders, but it's impractical in a place the size of Canada, and there's enough dorks out there that nobody would trust it.

Would be cool though. :) A P2P setup for animal trade.

[Painted Desert]

Someone has formed a company here in Ontario... don't know how sucessful they've been though. I crunched the numbers on it once or twice and almost fell over, it all comes down to what your time is worth... As for the Cessna, it's going to be the same deal, airfuel is just as bad, if not worse. On the up and up side... at least your friend won't have a dog bouncing around in his face on short final...:D

[HumphreyBoagart]

Originally posted by Stockwell
Its weird alright.. I guess Bees are commonly traded between farmers.
I think we might have a loop hole.. Hilde quoted
"parasites and leeches can be mailed under certain conditions"
So just mail your snakes with mites and turtles with leeches..LOL

LOL!!!

[varanus69]

i know people that have used greyhound for short trips ( but longer than the average drive) like on distances shorter than a 60 hour drive.

[MichaelBoyko]

Does Greyhound allow the transportation of live animals or herps? I'm not sure how safe that could be, does the fumes of exhast stay completely out of the cargo compartment?

Could be worth investigating though for a regional delivery solution! If anyone has more info on using busses, let me know!

[Jeff_Favelle]

Does Greyhound allow the transportation of live animals or herps?

Not knowingly.

[gonesnakee]

Irreguardless of what your business/product is shipping is a fact of life. Accept it & deal with it or don't ship. Every single case I've heard of Herps being couriered across Canada, the reciepent recieved dead animals. Folks I know in BC that will courier things Stateside & then drive across to grab them end up more often than not with an average of 1/2 dead upon arrival & lose more in the first week as a result also. This is also very common for pet store orders from the states to Canada as well. These aren't odds I'm personally willing to take. NUFF SAID Mark