first time buyer

[440Charger]

Hi i've never owned a reptile before but I'm really interested in owning a chamelon. Few questions because I want my first attempt to be a sucess.

I'm going ot build my own cage. I'm fairly mechanical inclined. But I'd like to see pictures of what others have done what materials used, sizes etc...

Also I heard most chamelons dont like to be handled. Not that I want to hold him all day and walk him but just wondering what others say on this?

Thanks

[meow_mix450]

It all depends on the person(you). Before doing anything read up the caresheets and see if its right for you. If not then try leopard geckos or bearded dragons. But after you have read the caresheets and your still willing to care for it then start thinking about building cages. Im telling you this because you have not owned a reptile before and chameleons arnt the greatest things to start off with.

Chameleons can be handled only for certain ocasions(sp). Its suggest that you dont

Meow

[peterm15]

well my chameleon is not handleable at all.. and meow-mix is right.. chameleons are better for an intermediat to advanced herp owner.. im not trying to talk you out of it.. just making you realise.. there not easy to keep.. do LOTS of reading and make sure you pick yourself up a book..

have you thought about what type of cham you want.. all post pics of my cahe later but if you scroll down on the chameleon page youl see lots of pics.. look for posts by me and by dudsky.. he made a really nice cage..

my com is havin trouble but when its beter ill post pics

[HeatherRose]

Hi :)

Making your own cage is an excellent start. From what I can tell the most common varieties of chameleons (that are pets) are veileds and panthers.

Chameleons have the most personality of any reptile I've owned, and while generally chameleons are not a handleable reptile, each individual varies. Usually they should only be handled when necessary. I've had one chameleon who would not let me near him unless I gave him a worm first, and I have another that comes right up to the cage door when I open it, because that usually means he's getting a shower.

Here's some good caresheets I found...I also would suggest getting a couple books at your local petstore too.

http://www.exoticlizards.com/veiled-chameleon-care-sheets.html

http://www.chameleoncondo.net/pages/745114/

Good luck! :D

[440Charger]

Im thinking of a veiled since they are the most commen i find around here. I've thought about the difficulty of keeping a chameleon before. This is the first source I've read. I was going to go iwth a dragon but the more I see chameleons in the store the more I want one. Thats why I'm gonna make sure I do everything right the first time before buying it.

How long does it take one to reach adult size? Im going to buy a babby one and start with that. I'm pretty sure the babbies at the pet store are captive breed.

[440Charger]

Judging by many of the pics soil or anything (substrate) is a bad idea on the bottom im assuming? Also I have a nice idea for a "rain system" and water collection system for the cage. Would it be better to go with a automatic mister? Or the rain system or both?

Also for cage size im thinking 36 or 24 in high 36 wide and 24 in deep. Figure that should give enough room to move up and down and back and forth. Whats the best way to keep humidity in the cage? I see people using humidifiers. And with the lights I guess put the basking lamp at one side and the have the uv / floruscent running the full lenght of the cage?

[HeatherRose]

Substrate is not a bad idea but it is not considered necessary, as chameleons will spend next to no time on the ground.

However, one of a chameleons' first defenses is to drop straight to the ground if it feels threatened. You might want to have something soft on the bottom of the enclosure, such as potting soil.

PS. While the chameleons at the store might be captive bred, how are they kept? It might be an indicator of the care they're getting. Baby chameleons are extremely delicate and you might be better off buying from a breeder. Just my opinion though.

Good luck again :)

[440Charger]

sorry i edited my post while u were responding :P so you missed half of the questions. As for a breader most defintly. That my first option. Not to many around in ontario. But in a month comes the reptile expo.

[peterm15]

ya just use the potted plants.. if theres one sugegstion i can give is maybe think about starting out with one that had a good size to them... at least a subadult.. that way you can get the cage the way you want it and put him right in the full size enclosure.. upsizeing can make for a very stressful envrioment on you and the chameleon... and you may even be able to find one that enjoys handleing..

it is not good to change the surroundings of a chameleon because they will not feel sucure.. provide lots of coverage by useing a combo between real and fake plants..

and as long as your ready and willing for a full time comittment and ALOT of reasearch ill have no prob helping you...

my biggest mistake was not anough coverage and having to add onto the cage.. heres kind of a timeline..

this one is pretty early and my cham was constantly stressed..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/peterm15/DSC00009.jpg

heres a little later on when i added a littloe more coverage...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/peterm15/DSC00306.jpg

heres my pissy cham.. he was usually this colour except for sleepin and eatin...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/peterm15/DSC00306.jpg

and this is pretty much what it looks like to date. still needs improvement.. the empty space below and beside the cage ( above the leo tank ) belongs to the cham too.. but as you can see.. no work done yet..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/peterm15/gecko050.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/peterm15/gecko058.jpg

im actually in the midts of adding more coverage.. but heres a pic of my cham and what hes been looking like lately.. this shot was taken while he was sleeping.. but he looks like this most of the time now... except for when i have a cam on me.. lol...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/peterm15/gecko010.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/peterm15/Picture005.jpg

[HeatherRose]

You'll have excellent luck at the reptile expo. There's usually quite a lot of both veiled and panther chameleons :)

[labomb]

Alot of good advice already given here. I would only add DON'T buy from a pet store unless you really know and trust them. I stupidly bought a jackson chameleon a year ago from a petstore and was given alot of bad advice and talked into purchasing alot of unnecessary equipment which only got used a couple months before I lost the little guy. It was also a disadvantage because it was supposedly unknown whether it was captive born or wild caught and what it's previous care was. I was heart broken over the loss and felt like I let the bugger down. but after visiting reptile shows and asking lots of questions, searching the internet and comparing care sheets my husband convinced me to give it another try with a captive bred veiled chameleon. It took me a year to gather the info and get the courage to give it another shot. This time I bought from a show. So far I have good feelings about my new friend, he eats very well and not shy at all with me.
But they do all have different personalities because we have a 2 year old male veiled in the family that is extremely shy and hides whenever we walk in the room. I think the difference is I give my young one lots of time just sitting in front of him (an hour or so a couple times a day)with his door open so he has gotten use to me being around and not feel threatened.
One more thing, your cage demensions sounded a bit tight. as long as you are building it you should go with 4ft high at least.

[peterm15]

ya if your building go as high as you possibly can.. if you can build one thats 4 feet.. than put it on a table. i cham may feel threatened at eye level.. so if you can give him room to be over top of you.. hell be happy.. id say minimum 24w x 36l x 48h. if you can go higher you really should..

[galad]

Hey guys I dont really have much more to give on advice I think everyone here has done a really good job.

But I do have one question.
Peterm15 was talking about it not being a good idea to change the enclosure around. Does everyone agree on this?

My opinion is that most chameleons in the wild wander around looking for food. They dont really have a deffined territory. Some do but not all. Anyways so in the wild their enviroment is constantly changing whether they are wandering around or not. Wind and storms blow things over and move things around.
So in that respect I have tried changing the cage of my male around slightly every month. Nothing drastic but things like: Switching plants around one at a time, changing the direction or pitch of some of the vines.
And all in all he seems to enjoy it. I have been doing the little changes for about 5 months now and have never seen him stressed.
Has anyone else had success in doing slight changes to the environment without causing stress to your chams?

ws

[Collide]

Change can be stressfull to a cham. I would say to keep there cages as stable as possible, They are territorial ( well at least the common ones we keep like veilds and panthers, jax ) Iv had chams hid for days in a plant because i took down a towel from one side of the cage, I find moving the location of the cage not as bad unless its too a much bigger room then that freeks them out. Males can be deciving because there desire for a female makes them want to leave but they will defend there cages. If u had a large enough cage to house a pair u would notice how territoral the male could be. just my 2 cents. In general I would say to keep the cage as stable as possible. bla bla bla

[peterm15]

well ive done 2 drastic changes.. unfortunatly.. the first one he was fine in about 3 months and the second he didnt seem to mind at all.. but the second one was just adding plants to the bottom. the top stayed the same.. i think adding is slightly easier on the cham than taking away..

[galad]

Well yes i didnt mean that they do not like eachother, obviously they do, and if stuck in a cage there will obviously be territories.
But im not talking about putting two in the same enclosure. I am talking about slowy changing around the furnishings in the cage. Not removing something quickly, or moving them to a different room.
I dont think you got the point of my post. Because I have done this with my cham like I said before over the past 5 months and havent noticed any sings of stress whatso ever.
The cage is still stable, with hising spots and all that, its just changed alittle everyweek.


ws

[peterm15]

if you see no prob there prob isnt one.. imo.. i have never had probs with that either.. just taking from one cage to another is not a great idea..

[Collide]

Point of your post??

Peterm15 was talking about it not being a good idea to change the enclosure around. Does everyone agree on this?

I gave u my opinon sorry guess u dident want it?

[440Charger]

wow gets just as hostile on reptile boards as it does on car boards :P hehe Well I was told "no reptiles in my house" so hopefully when I move out at the end of the year Ill be able to go through with it. Or maybe when my friend tries to. He was interested in getting one. If he does I'm going to help him set it up and I'll be back to ask more questions.

Thanks guess you've cleared up alot for me.

One last thing. If I had a "rain system" should I still mist the cage?

Thanks

[HeatherRose]

Aww. My parents used to say 'nothing that eats bugs'... until I fixed them :p Now they take great interest and are supportive of my hobby :D It's great. Hopefully you are able to one day get your cham or help your friend with his.

If you have a misting/rain system I wouldn't worry about misting. However, if you're using a dripper, misting would still be necessary to mist to keep up humidity.

:D Good luck.

[peterm15]

agreed.. but parrents can always be talked into things.. my parrents said only one.. thats was about a year ago now i have 5 and they help when it comes to purchaseing the animal and createing enclosures... and i catch my mom everyonce in a while down stairs saying shes just checking on my little guys.. lol..

if you sit back and explain to them that it is YOUR responsibility and a whole write up and such on what these creatures are REALLY like im sure theyll end up giving in...

heck my mom even says " you should get one of these guys next" that was funny..

but i have also never asked my mom to do anything with my herps.. feed water spray nothing..

[440Charger]

Well the difference is my brother brouht a bird into the house and she sees that as a failure. So not only do i got to explain how a reptile of any kind is lke i got to explain how i wont end up like my brother.

Just as well I guess. If all goes well Ill be getting on the police force this year and even though my other brother said he'd help take care of it It might not be the best idea.

Thanks again guys

[peterm15]

ya.. i see.. good plan

[galad]

Lol im sorry collide I did not me to offend you. But yea you did miss my point. I was talking about slight changes, and you were talking about removing a towel covering the whole side of the enclosure. Which would mean your cham felt completely in the open having all the cover on one sid of the enclosure taken away and i totally understand. Same as i understand what you mean with the pair in one enclosure.

Just wanted to clear that up

ws

[labomb]

Hmm.....no reptiles in the house....sounds familiar. well I was one of those parents that insisted no reptiles or pets of any kind. 2 dogs were more than enough. my son was persistant and I finally got use to the idea that he was going to get a crested gecko and had done plenty of research on it to take care of it. how long ago was that Stevo? more than a year ago? now along with his 3 cresteds, couple of leos, 2 red eye frogs, how many tree frogs? and a tokay, o yeah and an adult male veiled, I have my own 2 cresteds and a veiled. And I have added too aquariums. it is an addiction :eek:

[galad]

yup deffinalty the greatest addiction of them all.
It's funny how true it is that one is just never enough.
I wish my parents had let me keep reptiles when I was younge. No matter how much research or anything I did I just could not convince them. lol
So I had to wait till i moved out to get my reptiles. And right away I got some house geckos and anoles to start then jumped right into the chameleons. After a ton of research of course.

Herps are the best things for kids not only does it teach them responsibility but also teaches them how to buget the money for food and more reptiles lol.

peace

ws

** and for younger herpers, breeding is probably a much easier way to teach them about the birds and the bees lol.

[440Charger]

Just out of curriosity. Has anyone tried to house another reptile or amphiban with a chameleon? Maybe a tree frog or something?

[HeatherRose]

Chameleons stress if you breathe on them funny. Keeping herps of different species together isn't a good idea, especially if they have different requirements. Different kinds of herps carry different kinds of bacteria, and in the wild this is fine but in close quarters such as a captive enclosure it's not. Even keeping two chameleons together (except for short breeding visits) isn't a good idea because of stress. Chams are very territorial.

[Manitoban Herps]

I was never told know reptiles in the house. They asked me if iw as up for the challenge and I said yes and here we are :D

[440Charger]

How do you keep the humidity in the cage if its open and air flows?? Only way i can see humidity being kept in is with an tank which isnt good right?

Im sure their will be more stupid questions to come. thanks

[labomb]

well I am home all the time and I mist alot in the winter when the dry heat is running all the time. it isn't as bad in the summer, I shut the door to the room and close the ac vents so it stays nice and humid on it's own. i am really considering a humidifier for the room for winter months. the tanks hold humidity better, but you can't put a chameleon in a tank.

[440Charger]

If i ran a humidifier into the cage would it work? I was hoping a rain system would do the job