View Full Version : Pythons grow bigger hearts at mealtimes
Gary D.
03-02-05, 07:44 PM
national Geo. news story
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/03/0302_050302_python.html
JimmyDavid
03-02-05, 07:48 PM
Yes. It's known that python's hearts shrink between meals, so it means that they must grown during meals (makes sense).
Nothing new there.
What could be new is the fact that pythons have FANGS (?!?) lol
C.ADAMANTEUS
03-02-05, 07:52 PM
NICE CATCH JIMMY! HA HA
Rick
Removed_2815
03-02-05, 08:41 PM
They are not incorrect by using the word fangs.
Main Entry: fang
Pronunciation: 'fa[ng]
Function: noun
1 a : a long sharp tooth: as (1) : one by which an animal's prey is seized and held or torn (2) : one of the long hollow or grooved and often erectile teeth of a venomous snake b : one of a spider's chelicerae at the tip of which a poison gland opens
2 : the root of a tooth or one of the processes or prongs into which a root divides
yea why wouldnt they have fangs lol
maybe somepeople didnt know about the heart. I know i didnt.
JUst because you know so much doesnt mean other people do.
Sorry, I just dont see why the comment was necessary.
peace
ws
boas_and_such
03-02-05, 08:52 PM
well, that was one good bedtime read!
JimmyDavid
03-02-05, 08:55 PM
RMBOlton. Fangs are big, sharp teeth that need to STAND OUT from the others to be called such. When they are all the same size, there's no point in calling them fangs. They are just a bunch of big teeth...
C.ADAMANTEUS
03-02-05, 09:00 PM
Agree with jimmy.
By the way, MY burst was pointed at the "pros" of National Geographic for using "Fangs"
Although the dictionaries definition includes "teeth" most do not recognize that a row of teeth the same or similar size count as such.
Rick
Removed_2815
03-02-05, 09:12 PM
I made a point not to interject my opinion David, take it up with the dictionary people as they did not use the word incorrectly.
The large pythons in question have long sharp teeth (considerably long when you look at skull morphology) that they use expressly for seizing and holding prey. Keep this fact in mind and look at the definition. I have no oppinion.
Edit: I'm not implying that their verbiage is correct (I said they are not incorrect, which is far from saying that they are correct). Note that tooth size varies in relation to location in a python's skull (larger in the front and smaller in the back).
http://mzone.mweb.co.za/residents/net12980/pyskull.jpg
Picture (http://mzone.mweb.co.za/residents/net12980/pyskull.jpg)
People could argue that pythons have fangs and people could argue that they don't (due to the lack of heterogeneity in tooth morphology). Either way, it's impossible to say if National Geographic is right or wrong. I have no opinion.
Scales Zoo
03-03-05, 07:34 AM
Maybe the heart enlargement after meals is part of the reason that powerfeeding can shorten the life span of snakes.
Interesting read
Ryan
Manitoban Herps
03-03-05, 07:45 AM
I don't think it matters if they say fangs or not....very interesting read for me too, i learn a few new things :)
That is seriously interesting! I never thought such a thing was possible in the sort of time frame they're talking about...
I did a quick library search, and found an electronic version of one of the papers they were talking about in that artilcle...I'll try to post a link to it, but it may not work. If the link doesn't work, and anyone would like to see the paper, I can email a PDF version...
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/abstract/203/16/2447
I know that this is old news to some people here, but some people might want to wade through the full story...;) :D
JimmyDavid
03-03-05, 08:54 AM
Smart thinking, Ryan.
But Could be incorrect, anyway. Heart enlargement happens only at feeding, it continues to get smaller even through the right-after digesting time. Wich means the heart is probably back to the inicial small size when the python takes another meal.
And we all know that powerfeeding is limited, the snake will not take a meal every day, no matter what.
But interesting...
I just skimmed that paper I posted, and it said that python metabolisms increase by 44% after a meal, and only 8-10% after exercise. That signficantly increased metabolic rate, with corresponding increase oxygen consumption, could quite likely explain any negative effects of power feeding...but that is just my guess...
C.ADAMANTEUS
03-03-05, 05:53 PM
It is a very interesting read. A few things that I didnt know were in the second article.....thanks kpugh
RMBolton, If all teeth are to be concidered as fangs, does that make the rear REAR FANGED snakes improperly named?
I believe its for lil reasons like this, that most do not concider them to be fangs, unless protruding beyond the rest.
Nice photo of the skull by the way.
Rick
Scales Zoo
03-03-05, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by kpugh
I just skimmed that paper I posted, and it said that python metabolisms increase by 44% after a meal, and only 8-10% after exercise. That signficantly increased metabolic rate, with corresponding increase oxygen consumption, could quite likely explain any negative effects of power feeding...but that is just my guess...
Jimmy, you like that thinking.... try this.....
They age more after they eat, the more they eat, the more they age - and that is why sparce fed colubrids live to be 20 years old - and powerfed snakes only live to be 5 or 6 in many cases?
Maybe the he meals make them age more than time does? Maybe each snake only has 200-300 feedings in them before they die?
In the wild they eat when they can, and have babies when food is plentiful - lots of offspring is the goal, not lots of years. It is different in captivity - maybe, or maybe not. Maybe.
Ryan
"In the wild they eat when they can, and have babies when food is plentiful - lots of offspring is the goal, not lots of years. It is different in captivity - maybe, or maybe not. Maybe. "
I tend to agree more with the "maybe so"
I myself only feed once per two weeks or so (not on a rigid schedual) and I am STILL considering cutting back even more or feeding a certain amount of prey items per year VS per month or week. I just can't see how anyone who feeds colubrids more often than twice a month has healthy weight snakes. My guys get WAY too fat on that. (talking adults here of course, animals over three + )
Marisa
Removed_2815
03-03-05, 07:00 PM
Hi Rick,
I haven't really formed an opinion. Just being the devil's advocate by throwing out that definition so that people can make up their own minds. As mentioned, I do not think NG is incorrect by using the word fangs, they could have chosen a better word though to avoid confusion. I also think that the word fangs is generally reserved for what you describe, though it might be applicable to pythons based on that single definition.
I'm not saying with certainty one way or the other.
Ryan
C.ADAMANTEUS
03-03-05, 08:50 PM
Hey Ryan
Just stirring the pot a little. :D
I caught the "no oppinion" part of yer post.
Yes yer right as far as the "Dictionary" goes. (I hate those things) like you said, to create less confusion, a better word could have been used by NG
Rick
About the whole fang thing - you have to keep in mind what the intended audience for that story was - I figure it's for your general nature loving public, not the hard core science geeks that are going to be argueing semantics, and looking up the original scientific papers to see what the authors really said (I fully admit that I am a geek!:D)....sorta like the Jeep add with the boa(?) in the river - most people won't catch stuff like that, but some folks will...My point is, the point of the story was the really cool physiology, not so much whether or not pythons have fangs...
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