Pittbull ban passed, quesiton for existing owners

[Shad0w]

I know this has been beaten to death, but now that the bill passed in the legislature and will take effect in late summer / early fall, how many existing owners plan to follow the new rules of having them muzzled and neutered/spayed?"

"Existing pit bulls will have to be neutered or spayed and will have to be leashed and muzzled in public 60 days after the legislation is proclaimed."

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2005/03/02/947201-sun.html

Hope this does not turn into a flame war.. just curious is all :D

[mykee]

If they want to keep their dogs, I'm guessing every one of them?

[Matt_K]

I think most Pit Bull owners have already started to follow those guidlines, much before the bill was passed. I know I started to at the end of last summer.

[chappy]

I got my guy fixed in November and it sucked because he was 5 1/2 at the time. Like Matt I also started walking him on a muzzle around september of last year, more to get him used to it then anything. I live in a building and have the whole time I had him, after this BS started, some people who have always been fine with my dogs started acting like they were scared and wouldn't get on the elevator or go near me with the dogs anymore.

Nick

[atw]

I hope that the majority of owners do NOT neuter or spay their dogs. I wouldn't if I had one. Most will probably muzzle them to keep their local idiot loud mouths from complaining.

Adam

[Iceman]

My moms had a pitbull since it was 2 months old, she didnt even know it was a pitbull so she named it wishbone, lol..

it has been fixed a few years ago, and it always has a mussle around its mouth when going for walks, because it is friendly with people, but it will rip apart any other animal(its happened)

but honestly i find it is the owners sometimes that make the pitbulls agressive, there is a black guy a few doors away from me that trains his pitbull to be agressive, by whiping it, and wraping a chain around its neck and swinging it around, him and his friends fight there dogs in the park at night, and one night my mom was walking her pitbull, and one of the guys came over and said wanna fight it? the prize is 400$, and my mom freaked and said no, and the idiot let his dog go and as soon as he did my moms dog broke the leash and tore the other guys dog apart,

my mom ran crying after with the dog, and the next day the guy saw her on the street and gave her the 400$, lol..

i hate it when i see the guys treating there dogs that way, i love dogs, lol..

[emkovar]

I know it prob. has been said before but ill do it anyway.

I think that it is a shame to ban any breed. ANY dog can be mean or be made mean, and I think this has been proven with the fact that now Golden Retrievers are now at (or near) the top of the "attacks on humans" list. Working at a vet clinic I see many different types of dogs every day and have had Pit bull terriers come in that are the friendliest dogs in the world.

I think what people have to realize that with proper training and socialization we can prevent many of the problems we currently have with dogs.

I would hope that people follow the new laws and get their dogs spayed and neutered. I hope that this would not only apply to pit bulls, but to all dogs that we consider pets.

Wearing the muzzle in public, I disagree with because I feel it promotes more fear in the public. As it is people cross the street when they see a large intimidating dog, never mind when it is wearing a muzzle.

But I guess the law is the law. I just hope the hysteria doesn’t consume us all.

[mykee]

I would think that most responsible pit bull owners would also have taken these precautions a while ago, simply to avoid any of the residual backlash. It's good to see that (most) pit bull owners are complying, it's a small price to pay in the long run to be able to keep your pet.
Emkovar; with regards to your post, we've all been there, done that topic ad nauseum. I don't think anyone wants to rehash it AGAIN. (At least I hope not).

[sturiches2000]

I think the ban is completly rettarted, or to be politically correct, its a mentally challenged bill that was passed. I have a breed of dog that is known to be aggressive with other dogs (an Akita) and he's the sweetest and calmest dog I have ever met. We took the time to take him to puppy kindergarten and to socialize him, we only train him with possitive reinforcement and he is good with other non-aggressive dogs and loves people.

I think the onus should be on owners to ensure that their dogs are brougth up right, and people should be penalized for being irresponsible.

I would be really upset if they started banning all dogs that have the potential to be dangerous. They might as well ban ice, so morons that aren't paying attention to what they are doing don't slip and sue for bumping their heads.

I think if the dog is a proven bitter, something should be done about it. And it the owner is proven irresponsible, he should be penalized. Just like someone that commits a crime is usually given a 10 year weapons ban and forced to keep the peace as one of his conditions of release, irresponsible dog onwers should not be allowed to own dangerous breeds.

That's my 2 cents.

[zappaguy]

after that last post banning pitbulls is a bad thing again why???? cuz we can't ban people.

[Vengeance]

Originally posted by atw
I hope that the majority of owners do NOT neuter or spay their dogs. I wouldn't if I had one. Most will probably muzzle them to keep their local idiot loud mouths from complaining.

Adam

All dogs should be spayed or neutered regardless of breed to help stop the overpopulation problem with dogs. I do like the fact that they are forcing people to spay and neuter their dogs, but that law should be across the board not just for pit bulls.

I personally don't think the ban is necessary, I really don't think it is going to stop much in the way of attacks. If not pit bulls it will be something else.

[mykee]

Crap!! Here we go again......

[Shad0w]

Oh man... lets not let this thread get ugly :)

This thread is not about if the law should or should not be... its here... just wanna know who is gunna follow the new rules is all :)

[joey]

I agree with vengeance. Far too many unwanted dogs in the shelters. Spaying/ Neutering is very responsible thing to do.

[Vengeance]

LOL, gotta love it when people on such opposite sides of the spectrum are in the same forum :D

[joey]

Originally posted by Vengeance
LOL, gotta love it when people on such opposite sides of the spectrum are in the same forum :D


a big sense of the 'real-world'

;)

[sturiches2000]

To get on topic, I spayed my Akita at 6 months of age. Part of the non-breeding agreement, but I would have done it anyhow.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

BOB:

Sounds like the Bob Barker law, "please be responsible and have your cats and dogs spayed or nuetered - I am Bob Barker".....:D

Actually if you do not intend on breeding your dogs or cats, they should be fixed. And if you do you should get a license to breed and be registered to keep responsible breeders in check and get the yahoos to stop this practice. Nothing against either but its not hard to put to dogs together and get a litter and sell off pups at low ball price or higher, but how many sell responsibly - and how many of those dogs and cats face a short life at a shelter because of this ignorance to responsibility. We got 2 Dobermanns, both males both fixed.....now if nature says these 2 can breed by some miracle then I lost my understanding of breeding, :D

Tony

[silent_truth]

A little perspective of the possible scenarios according to Shadow’s original inquiry:


Scenario A:
John Doe owns a dog that is considered to be in the classification of a “pit bull”. John decides that he doesn’t agree with the new legislation that has been put in place, so he ignores the new regulations for owning a dog of this classification. John’s neighbours speak amongst themselves about John’s lack of action to comply with these new regulations. John is reported to the authorities, his dog is impounded and legal action is taken against John.

Scenario B:
John Doe owns a “pit bull” that has been a loving pet for many years. John learns of the new regulations requiring him to muzzle the dog when out in public, but he delays doing anything to comply with these new regulations. John’s neighbours don’t mind that John is not complying as the dog has always been friendly. One day John’s dog misunderstands the fast approach of one of John’s old friends who has come to visit him and attacks the man. John is not only liable for the damages incurred by his dog but is now facing penalties associated with non-compliance of the law. John’s dog is impounded, legal action is taken against John.

Scenario C:
John Doe owns a “pit bull” that has for the most part been a great dog. John does not agree with the new legislation banning pit bulls and requiring the established animals to be muzzled while in public, but he complies with the regulations as he cherishes his dog enough to do whatever allows him to keep the dog for the longest possible time. John and his dog share many great years together and wearing the muzzle becomes just another part of the routine for John’s dog.


Which scenario would you pick if you were in John’s place? Refusing to comply with the law and possibly allowing a situation to develop that is hazardous to yourself, to other people and/or animals is ignorant and it will only reaffirm what was said by the people who claimed that all of the dogs in this breed are dangerous. So what reason would one have for non-compliance?


-Adam

[Topaz]

Omg, iceman, call the cops and humane society, that is illegal and so cruel. They can be and should be charged for that. You can do it annonymously.

Poor dogs...

[atw]

Joey,

I agree that it is important to fix dogs. However, the issue is not whether it is 'a very responsible thing to do' because there are too many unwanted dogs: the issue is whether it is appropriate to be forced to do this to your animal because of a law based on hysteria that has the intent of eliminating a breed.

In this respect, I hope owners do not obey the fixing law if they are intent on breeding their animals because I do not think the breed should be eliminated.


Adam

[Shad0w]

Hmmm

Here is another question,

Ive heard that people with large or so called dangerous dogs are having a VERY hard time getting home insurance... anyone experience this or have their insurance company cancel their policy because of a dog?

[Invictus]

Ah, I knew this post was coming, and I've been looking forward to it, but probably not for the reasons many of you who followed the last post on this subject may believe.

Some will recall my absolute PRO- stance on the banning of pitbulls. I will not say why nor how, but I have had a complete change of heart on the matter. Suffice it to say that my eyes were opened in a way that a debate on a public forum could not have achieved. I won't make any apologies for presenting nor vehemently defending my previous standpoint - I will merely say that I was wrong.

That being said...

I'm sorry to hear about this law being passed. And a reminder to all Ontario residents - Giant snakes (burms, retics, etc.) are not legal in Alberta, but Pitbulls still are! And we have more reptile shows per year than any other province now! :)

Trying to make light of the situation, don't mind me....

[Iceman]

lol, i should have continued my post, that happened about a year ago, the guys pitbull ended up being put down because it attacked a 3 year old kid, i can't remember what happened to the guy though, i think the little kids mother pressed charges..

[marisa]

Good post Invictus. You guys have your Pitts and we still have our Burms. Makes a lot of sense. lol :D

Already the Sun has ANOTHER dog breed on the cover today talking about how dangerous this OTHER breed is.

When will it stop? I am sure my Jack Russell is next.

While this topic has been done before, it's hard not to talk about it when the government doesn't even listen to the vets of their own country who totally disagree with the ban. I'd rather see them spending the money and time this will take on educated new dog owners and offering free spay and nutuer for ALL breeds for those who cannot afford it.

I can't believe they are wasting time on DOGS when booze still kills thousands a year. And smoking? You want to ban something, ban those things which kill 500 times what any dog breed does per year not to metion cost the country THOUSANDS more per year. But I guess we can't fix those problems until the roaming herds of killer dogs are off the streets.

I am sure they will remove the ban once the government figures out how they can make money off them like they do smokes and booze, because these things that kill are A O.K. as long as they make money!

Marisa

[atw]

LOL Good post Marisa!

[marisa]

Here's an interesting part my boyfriend brought up to me:

"The ban applies to the pit bull terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, American pit bull terrier or dogs that are very similar in appearance and physical characteristics."

So does this mean a dog that LOOKS like a pit bull is banned? What about overweight labs? They look a little Pitty to me. What about Boxers? Are they now banned? They look like Pits to me. And what person will be deciding which dogs look too much like Pit Bulls? Who will decide on a individual case basis which dog looks too "offensive"

Now if a dog LOOKS like a Pit it's banned? Is this a joke? It's really making me think its a joke. This is a terrible, ignorant, non-thought out ban! It's almost laughable how much planning they FORGOT to put into this.

I saw someone cooking with Oregano today. It LOOKED a little bit like marijuana so I think I am gonna go phone the local authorities, you know, just in case.

Marisa

[sleddergirl]

My take on everything that has been said so far.

Yes, any dog that "looks" like a pit bull, is considered one by Michael Bryant, unless you have papers from the AKC, CKC or UKC to state otherwise. If your dog gets accused of being a pitpull, the burden of proof lies with you........so unless you have a purebred dog WITH documentation, you're screwed.

The dog on the front page of the Sun today was listed as being a mastiff, its actually a Presa de Canario. I only knew of one breeder in Ontario and she has since stopped selling her dogs. Some of you may remember a few years ago, there was a school teacher killed in her apartment building by 2 dogs, in San Francisco. They were reported as being "huge pit bulls" initially. They were actually Presas that were owned by lawyers.

I have not started to wear a muzzle on Tank. He is fixed and microchipped and I will start to muzzle him when I am required to do so, by law. At this point in time, I am not.

Sue

[JAdkins2451]

Marisa I totally agree with the looks of dogs.. I have 2 boxers, one I dont think looks anything like a pitbull but the other is a little shorter and alot more stocky then the other. And it kind of does look like a pitbull ecept her colour and tails..

The only reason I had brought that up is, when thay fiest started to talk about banning pitbulls last summer I was walkin my dogs through the neighbour hood a man and his wife commented, saying what are you going to do when they ban pitbulls. I just kind of looked at them, and they replayed were talkin about your dogs. I just said there boxers, and walked away.

I geuss my point is people that dont know dog ( breeds ) will think that many diffrent breeds are pitbulls without second guessing.

Jamie

[sleddergirl]

I feel bad for the people who have dogs that an uninformed neighbour might mistake for a pitbull. Christ, its bad enough that we're fighting for our dogs, but to have a dog thats not a pitbull and still have to fight for it...............:rolleyes:

I also wonder what happened with Dalton McGuinty........apparently there was a little hush hush about the fact that part of his campaign had been to allow the Liberal party individuals to vote as independants.................then he said for Bill 132 (the pit bull ban) that they were voting as a party.........?

The only thing most pit bulls fight, is a media induced stereo-type!

Sue

[joey]

Originally posted by atw
Joey,

I agree that it is important to fix dogs. However, the issue is not whether it is 'a very responsible thing to do' because there are too many unwanted dogs: the issue is whether it is appropriate to be forced to do this to your animal because of a law based on hysteria that has the intent of eliminating a breed.

In this respect, I hope owners do not obey the fixing law if they are intent on breeding their animals because I do not think the breed should be eliminated.


Adam

I think it should be a law regardless of what breed one owns. If someone had a puppy that they had special plans for then they could get a license to do so. Maybe this would cut down on puppy-mills and abandoned females dumped with whole litters.

I'm not for the total anihilation of any breed and belive there are other solutions. Unfortunatley so many people have proven again and again that they are not willing to take responsibility to provide the correct care that their animal needs/deserves to survive.

[marisa]

"Attorney General Michael Bryant has said he's convinced pit bulls are inherently dangerous and pose too great a risk to public safety.

Bryant argued against opponents of the proposed legislation during a series of public hearings in early February.

He said there can be nothing more effective at stopping pit bull attacks than removing the dogs from society. "

Then I hope cigarettes will be banned as well, and it better be tomorrow. Because from his own mouth, nothing can be more effective at stopping something that simply removing it from society.....rising medical costs on the province, deaths and second hand smoke can all be stopped TOMORROW by removing cigarettes (and booze) from our society.

He is LITERALLY removing what has killed but doesn't make the goverment money, while IGNORING what kills 1000X more people on a yearly basis and costs the province MILLIONS and leaving it legal because they can let the taxes off them roll in! Again, how can ANYONE who is a citizen in this great country put up with this nut ball logic?

Sorry for going on and on guys. I am just really sad by this hypocrisy.

Marisa

[sleddergirl]

Great post Marisa, you hit the nail right on the head. I hate the fact that I am now living under a government that will go so far as to dictate what breed of dog I'm allowed to own. The floodgates have been opened and its only now a matter of time before more breeds get banned and the cigarettes stay.......:rolleyes:

[loveispretend]

Originally posted by Shad0w
Hmmm

Here is another question,

Ive heard that people with large or so called dangerous dogs are having a VERY hard time getting home insurance... anyone experience this or have their insurance company cancel their policy because of a dog?

I didn't have a problem with insurance, but I did have a problem with the pet-deposit when moving.
When I told my landlord that I had four dogs, she told me the pet deposit would be $2800. That was more than a little insane, but after asking some questions about my dogs (2 purebreds and 2 mutts, one of which is half pit), she dropped it to $1000. After I'd lived here for close to a year, she admitted why... she requires $100 for most breeds, but if your dog is a rot, pit, dobie, or other 'dangerous' breed, she charges $700 each. Since she technically isn't supposed to ask/discriminate, she quotes at $700 a dog, and then looks like a hero dropping it down for 'safe' dogs.

[joey]

what about marijuana?--wasn't there a law passed where you could legally smoke the stuff?

Wonder what the undercurrent of the Pittbull issue is....why are they going after them? I know that the gov is not making money off them but what is the real issue here....

[JonD]

I still remember the good old days when dogs walked themselves, neighbors still knew who each other was and everyone looked out for each others dogs and children....gone are those days i guess..:( Everyone is in a panic these days!

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by marisa
Who will decide on a individual case basis which dog looks too "offensive"


For everyone's sake, I sure as hell hope it's not Bryant. Anyone remember the video of him looking at the paper with all the different dogs?? He got that wrong, but obviously it's not the first thing he's been wrong about.

-Matt

[sleddergirl]

To the best of my knowledge, it will be your local animal control that decides. They will have a sitting board that you have to present your case to, if your dog gets accused of being pit. I dunno if that has changed or not, but thats what was on the news a few months ago.

Sue

[marisa]

"what about marijuana?--wasn't there a law passed where you could legally smoke the stuff? "

If your doctor prescribes it, and you then pass and get an excemption from the government, then yes you can smoke it. Everyday joe schmoe pothead cannot. Because being high and eating munchies can really be far worse than dying from lung cancer and costing the province millions per year. :|:|

When they figure out a way to properly ensure they are getting taxes off marijuana, and lots of them, it will be legal. As long as they make money, it doesn't matter how many die. If they don't have cash coming in from it, they'll ban anything to make a group of voters happy (regardless of how uninformed they are). Even if it kills 5 people or 5 million.

I am personally not sure what the *real* issue here is but when you compare Pit death numbers to other social dangers, it's obviously something. The media whipping people into uneducated fear frenzies doesn't help either.

Marisa

[JAdkins2451]

Originally posted by JonD
I still remember the good old days when dogs walked themselves, neighbors still knew who each other was and everyone looked out for each others dogs and children....gone are those days i guess..:( Everyone is in a panic these days!

I remember growing up in a tight nit community, everybody knew everbody and there kids and dogs etc. But that eventully changed when people moved and what not. And I liked it it was like having family living all around you and nothin bad ever happened.

And for the reason for everyone being in a panic is the goverment and media, they why they have been portraying these dogs. Which is B.S.

Jamie

[joey]

I know that in Detroit, Michigan there is a law requiring ALL pits picked up by the humane society are destroyed. You wouldn't believe how many raids there are in this city (daily) where people keep them strictly to fight. It's against the law to even be walking a pit down the street if you are under 18 and they will take the dog from you right on the spot. It's terribly sad for the animals.

Sounds like this Bryant guy really has a hatred for dogs. I'm sorry guys. :(

[mykee]

I'm having chicken schnitzel for dinner. Should be good, I'll keep you all updated...

[Raindog]

It's a damn good thing I don't live in Canada.

"The ban applies to the pit bull terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, American pit bull terrier or dogs that are very similar in appearance and physical characteristics."

That is stupid in itself but how far will they take it? I feel quite sure they would include my favorite breed, the bull terrier. Very similar in appearance or characteristics, gimme a break.

This bill is nothing more than public ignorance made law and the wholesale extermination of many noble breeds so that idiots can feel safe while they shove cheeseburgers down their throats and drop dead from heart disease or drive their cars into crowded thoroughways while chatting up the wifey on their fancy cell phones about how little bobby shoved a marble up his nose.

I'm disgusted by this, can you tell?

[havenbounce]

Bill 132 still has not been passed. There's one more thing it has to go through before it becomes law. It has to have Royal Assent
by the Lieutenant Governor.So what you can do is write him. Here's a prewritten letter. Please write!!!!
http://groups.msn.com/TheDogDen/advocacy.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=1086&LastModified=4675509968403292406

The Hon. James K. Bartleman

Lieutenant Governor of Ontario

Queen's Park

Toronto ON M7A 1A1



Your Honour,



I respectfully ask that you do not provide royal assent for Bill 132. Very clearly, this bill does not have the support of the major stakeholders nor does it have the support of the majority of the citizens of Ontario. In blatant disregard of the public hearings and the sizeable evidence presented against breed specific legislation, the Liberal Party has chosen to ignore the will of the people. The bill itself, and the Liberals' actions, are a slap in the face of democracy. In short, what we have is an unparalleled perversion of power. It is within your power to halt this atrocity and I respectfully urge you to do so.



Sincerely,

[SnowSnake]

I'm totally against the ban and I have a question for you guys:

The government passed the law to have every pit bull neutered or spayed, will the government pay for this since they made the law?

[havenbounce]

Here's an interesting part my boyfriend brought up to me"The ban applies to the pit bull terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, American pit bull terrier or dogs that are very similar in appearance and physical characteristics."

So does this mean a dog that LOOKS like a pit bull is banned? What about overweight labs? They look a little Pitty to me. What about Boxers? Are they now banned? They look like Pits to me. And what person will be deciding which dogs look too much like Pit Bulls? Who will decide on a individual case basis which dog looks too "offensive" :

As per Bill 132 it will be up to the owner to prove their dog is not a pitbull or pitbull mix. How can you prove a mix breed is not a pit when you do not and cannot get registered papers. A lab/boxer mix does look exactly like a pitbull. God help us. Since the beginning of Jan/05 the Ottawa Humane Society has put down 25 dogs only because they look like a pitbull. They didn't even bother to do any temperment tests on them. They just didn't want them in before the ban actually passed. A sad sad day!
Ginnette

[havenbounce]

Here's a link to Bill 132
http://www.ontla.on.ca/documents/Bills/38_Parliament/Session1/b132rep.pdf

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Ive owned only one dog ever that was NOT a pit bull, and my dogs "NEVER BIT ANYONE" Except My Neo Mastiff, and that was overturned cuz the guy was trying to break in my house, didnt see the dog, and got hisself chewed on a bit. (had it coming)
People need to be educated on the proper upbringing of dogs. Sociallizing, training, the works.
Any dog will bite when left on a chain and only attention when fed and watered.
They are Banning them down here also. New Mexico just OUTLAWED them out right, because of pit fights, but caulk fighting is still legal.?? go figure.
Many other Cities have used there right to Ordinances, and have done the same thing.
It all boils down to the upbringing of the dog. They are Family members in my eyes. Not pets.
Rick

[Iceman]

just thought i'd say something else..

I really don't know why they are banning pit bulls, i know people that had pitbulls that were SO friendly all there life, and people say the thing with pitbulls what makes them agressive is that as they age there brain gets to big for there skull, there skulls cracks, and thats what makes them go nuts, anyone know if this is true?

Also, my sisters boyfriend has a bull terrier and a german shepard that were trained by his father as attack dogs, and the german shepard used to be a police dog, the german shepard will attack at command but the bull terrier will attack everyone except for my sister, her boyfriend, and his parents..

3 times the bull terrier attacked and killed a cat, once a dog(poor young huskie) and also a few times for some reason attacked its own master..

why? the way the dog was raised...

my best friend has a bull terrier that acts like a kitten, and its the meanest looking dog you'd ever see, lol..

my point? don't blame the dog, blame the master for making it that way, pitbulls dont raise them selfs,

http://www.freepgs.com/iceman/00300.jpg

the pic above is me and my girlfriend, along with my moms 3 dogs..

simba(the huge white one, hungarian sheep dog mixed with something) wishbone(the pitbull) and missy(the little one)

lol, just thought i'd show the pic.

(i look wierd, dont mind the just woke up look)

edit: dammit the pic is huge, lol

[Raindog]

Here's Kilo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/raindog314159/Kilo17.jpg

It would be a very bad day for anyone that knocked on my door and demanded he be surrendered. That's as nicely as I can put it.

[havenbounce]

You know all you need is to have a neighbour who doesn't like you to complain and they can enter your home with NO warrent and take that little cutie out of your home. (if u lived up here in Ontario (yours to Discover...unless your a dog!)
Isn't that a Bull Terrier?
Ginnette

[JonD]

Originally posted by mykee
I'm having chicken schnitzel for dinner. Should be good, I'll keep you all updated...
LOL Damn Mykee that made me laugh!!:D

Jamie:

Yeah media determines what people watch. Backyard BBQ's, wet banana's and big wheels don't get viewer ratings, fear does.:rolleyes:

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Originally posted by Iceman
just thought i'd say something else..

I really don't know why they are banning pit bulls, i know people that had pitbulls that were SO friendly all there life, and people say the thing with pitbulls what makes them agressive is that as they age there brain gets to big for there skull, there skulls cracks, and thats what makes them go nuts, anyone know if this is true?

Also, my sisters boyfriend has a bull terrier and a german shepard that were trained by his father as attack dogs, and the german shepard used to be a police dog, the german shepard will attack at command but the bull terrier will attack everyone except for my sister, her boyfriend, and his parents..

3 times the bull terrier attacked and killed a cat, once a dog(poor young huskie) and also a few times for some reason attacked its own master..

why? the way the dog was raised...
edited for room

Absolutely not.
Pitt bulls were bred from various breeds until they got what they wanted. A medium powerful killing machine.
for that reason alone, its in there blood so to speak.
But ive had two males at the same time, uncut full of testosterone, and they got along great. Both died of old age, no spltting of skulls, or brain swelling too big for there cranium. That just is misleading info. Somebodies idea of what makes sence to them.
As far as being attack trained, Thats a chance you take when you train a dog to do that. They can easily misunderstand commands. Perhaps one that was unintentional, a hand gesture, a word.
Could be a number of reasons why. Could also just be a bad blood line. one that WAS bred for his fighting characteristics.
All I know is that the German shepherd is #1 on the last list I saw for probable biting, and for serious bites.
Rick

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Just thought id share a Pic or two of my girl Kashahttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/crotalusadamanteus/Kasha.jpg
Shes a runt at 1 1/2 ft tall and 50 solid pounds, But you cant explain that to her.:D
And Blue belle, my only non pit ever. shes only 9 months in this pic and 105 pounds. Sorry no better pics
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/crotalusadamanteus/bluebelle5.jpg
Rick

[kpugh]

Originally posted by havenbounce
How can you prove a mix breed is not a pit when you do not and cannot get registered papers. A lab/boxer mix does look exactly like a pitbull. God help us.
Ginnette

I am currently doing an undergrad thesis about dog genetics, and there are some studies which show that dogs can be assigned to their respective breed using specific DNA markers (microsatellites to be exact). I don't think the technology has been used to identify pit bulls and related breeds yet, but this is definately one of the potentially useful applications of this technology. Could be useful in cases of mixed breeds or some of the obscure bull terrier breeds.

This whole mess is really, really a sad state....I almost feel bad for the ignorant people...

[mykee]

For those of you that wondered, the chicken was great, had a nice greek salad with it, and some lemon garlic baked potato slices. I was pleased. Carry on.

[havenbounce]

Lots of garlic...p.u. glad you're in Toronto...!(lol)
Glad it was good
Ginnette

[HeatherRose]

That sounds great Mykee. Greek salad seriously owns. So do potatoes. I wish I had some of those really crappy white/peeled/canned baby potatoes in the cupboard right now, that would just make my day :(

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Originally posted by mykee
For those of you that wondered, the chicken was great, had a nice greek salad with it, and some lemon garlic baked potato slices. I was pleased. Carry on.
kpugh.....Great subject there. new to me. very interesting. they could really discover alot about diff breads.
hey mykee.....Glad yer enjoying the entertainment:D
Rick

[mykee]

I promised myself that if this topic ever came back up, I would try my darndest to not get involved, 'cause I get too "into it". I'm a good boy. Thanks all for your vicarious pleasure in my wonderful meal.
Ginnette; You'll be glad to know that west of Toronto means an hour west, so I promise you won't smell me. I smell good though. Except for the pungent aroma of garlic seeping from my pores.

[HeatherRose]

All I can go on is pure experience when a topic like this comes up (again, and again). The two pitbulls I've met in my lifetime have been absolute snugglebunnies.

What kind of dog does Don Cherry have? I used to walk one... she was really sweet too, but strong. She walked me most of the time... does that breed fall under the category too?

[havenbounce]

Good cause I live east...so east they call it Ottawa! But really you should get into it, God knows what breed will be next!
Ginnette

[havenbounce]

Don has a Bull Terrier! He is said to be against this bane but was going to wait untill it was passed before commenting on it.
No not yet!
Ginnette

[Invictus]

By the way, that whole thing about the cranial swelling causing chronic headaches is Dobermans, not pitbulls. Even then, I've yet to have this 'fact' confirmed by a vet.

[darkscale]

I feel bad for the people who have dogs that an uninformed neighbour might mistake for a pitbull. Christ, its bad enough that we're fighting for our dogs, but to have a dog thats not a pitbull and still have to fight for it...............

i have a boxxer and it has happend more that once
i just cant wait for it to happen again:rolleyes:
unfortunatly i do not have any papers statting that what she is other than a bill of sale frome the pet shop i bought her at
and that only says she's "boxxer type" i was tolds that she is pure bred but i have my doughts her muzzle is faily long for a boxxer and it gives her a pitty look i think the whole thing realy sucks because it dose not only affect pit bull owners but all dog owners. you would think that living in a democracy we the people
would have some say and not just michale bryant,iam assuming
he never had a dog growing up

[havenbounce]

I've been helping the NATIONAL CAPITAL COALITION
FOR PEOPLE AND DOGS to fight this bill and have learned a few things. Like did you know Bryant only wanted to make a name for himself because he plans to run for Prime Minister. He wanted something that he thought would be quick and simple and make him look good to the public. With the attacks that had happened he thought this would be the easiest route for him. (boy was he wrong!!) Also he thought passing this would make him look good to the residence in his ridding. Why because he wants to put up some housing and needs the public support to make it happen so again thought this Bill would be the easiest way. (again boy was he wrong)
So this bill really has nothing to do with dogs but has alot to do with "fame"
Ginnette

[mykee]

Ginnette, by your response, I'm guessing you haven't read my previous opinions on this topic. LOL.. I myself own two labs, and my guess is it'll be a WHILE until they're banned.

[sleddergirl]

All breeds can attack. Its happened before and will happen again. I'm sure, by your responses to this topic, Mykee, that your labs have never attacked anyone. Well, neither have my pit bulls. Dogs are dogs. Dog owners should be held accountable for the actions of their dogs, regardless of the breed.

[havenbounce]

If you go by statts, labs and goldens could be next on the hit list. After all they rank #1 in dog bites that needed a doctors care.
But just because the breed of dog you own isn't on the ban list doesn't mean someone shouldn't worry about it.
But if the ban does go through this will still open the door for someone to complain about your dog and that will allow bylaw or the police to enter your home a seize your dog.
I don't own any of the breeds on the hit list but I'm doing EVERYTHING I can to make sure it doen't go through.
Ginnette

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Originally posted by sleddergirl
All breeds can attack. Its happened before and will happen again. I'm sure, by your responses to this topic, Mykee, that your labs have never attacked anyone. Well, neither have my pit bulls. Dogs are dogs. Dog owners should be held accountable for the actions of their dogs, regardless of the breed.
AMEN!
Rick

[tHeGiNo]

I really don't know why they are banning pit bulls, i know people that had pitbulls that were SO friendly all there life, and people say the thing with pitbulls what makes them agressive is that as they age there brain gets to big for there skull, there skulls cracks, and thats what makes them go nuts, anyone know if this is true?

Firstly, this problem does not crack the skull - as inviticus suggested, the swelling causes severe headaches. Also as suggested, it is a problem associated with Dobermans.

Unfortunately, Pit Bulls have a bad reputation because of some negligent people who have abused their dogs and trained them to be aggressive. Pit Bulls are actually very intelligent and highly trainable. They are renowned for being affectionate and loving, often described as suitable dogs for children, therapy providers for the disabled and elderly and less likely to bite than many other popular breeds, contrary to popular belief. In fact, In fact, the highest obedience trial record is held by an American Pit Bull. What is often not understood is that while some Pit Bulls may be aggressive towards other dogs (they were trained for dog fighting, after all...) well raised Pit's generally possess NO human aggression. In fact, human aggression has been bred out of the breed. Just as anything - be it a gun, knife, reptile, or god - in the wrong hands they have the potential to be dangerous. This is true for any breed. There is a clear relationship to the type of owner associated with dogs responsible for human attacks

Pit Bulls strive to take uphold behaviors that their guardians instill in them, and their behavior is reflective upon the care, training and socialization practices (or lack thereof) used by their owners. I have seen and worked with several Pit Bulls, and of the several have encountered only two that I had to approach with caution. In both cases, they were neglective owners who purchased the dog for all the wrong reasons.

As for being forced to spay your dog, I personally would have absolutely no problem with this, as long as there was a spot reserved for breeders to continue breeding (via licensing etc.). The pros for spaying your dog severely outweigh any cons - if there are any to outweigh. It is relatively inexpensive, and could save you a load of trouble and vet bills for the future. God forbid should your dog develop pyometra - a $300.00 vet bill turns into $2000.00.

**EDIT**: Didn't include references:

I suggest anyone with any misconceptions go to any search engine and enter "Pit Bull Myths." Some great sites I found for references when posting this were:

http://blockheadpits.tripod.com/id16.html
http://www.austinlostpets.com/kidskorner/2October/pitbull.htm

[sleddergirl]

Although I am a pit owner, I do see both sides, part of being an adult I suppose.;)

At one point in time, there was no human aggression in this breed. Back in the day, when the "old dogmen" were fighting them. Do I condone dog fighting........absolutely NOT.....but the fact remains that those were the people who developed this breed. Unfortunately now, there are tons of punks out there breeding them for aggression specifically. I love the breed, but I am also extremely careful about the individuals within the breed that I choose to own.

As I said before, Tank is fixed and microchipped. We don't go to dog parks and he is never off leash while outside my property. But that doesn't excuse the punks that use this breed as a status symbol. Nor does it excuse the poor examples of the breed that have attacked people. My whole point is, there are poor examples of every breed .......some from poor breeding practices, some from poor training or lack of training altogether.
I train my pits away from their natural instincts, hence keeping them in check. I also take the time to know my dogs well enough to recognise potentially dangerous situations.

I just don't believe that banning any particular breed, is the answer to dangerous dogs.

[Matt_K]

David, at least you didn't copy it word for word eh? :P

Most people, who are unfamiliar with the American Pit Bull Terrier, falsely believe that they are dangerous dogs. Unfortunately, Pit Bulls have a bad reputation because of some mean people who have abused their dogs and trained them to be aggressive. Pit Bulls are actually very stable, intelligent, and highly trainable. They are strong athletic dogs, and they require a guardian who is responsible and will give them plenty of exercise and training. They are very loving and loyal and make excellent animal companions.

http://www.austinlostpets.com/kidskorner/2October/pitbull.htm

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

spaying and newtering can also increase the life of your dogs, lessen risks of cancers, and health problems. (alot less hormones when fixed) Actually it can be beneficial to your animal.
Are they gonna let people retain licenses for breeding? Really curious.
Also my pitts have all been trained. IN OBEDIENCE. And I bet I can call off of ANY situation.
tHeGiNo....... I believe you were looking for the word "BREAD" instead of "trained" LOL j/k Got the idea
Rick

[tHeGiNo]

Thanks Matt, Nick had pointed out to me on MSN that I did not include some references. I included them now :).

[ICULIZARD]

sleddergirl.....

Your pits are awesome, (as are all the ones I've had experience with). I feel badly for responsible owners that now have to subject their dogs to muzzling whenever outside.

It's a scary thing.....I own Pugs and obviously I never have to worry about these type of government restrictions......but in the future I would like to be able to pick any breed that I decide fits in my family. Won't be long before Bull-Mastiffs, Neo's, Rotti's, German Shepards etc are banned also. Very sad.

[tHeGiNo]

spaying and newtering can also increase the life of your dogs, lessen risks of cancers, and health problems. (alot less hormones when fixed) Actually it can be beneficial to your animal.
Are they gonna let people retain licenses for breeding? Really curious.
Also my pitts have all been trained. IN OBEDIENCE. And I bet I can call off of ANY situation.
tHeGiNo....... I believe you were looking for the word "BREAD" instead of "trained" LOL j/k Got the idea
Rick


It most DEFINITELY is beneficial to your animal. However, I was not looking for the word 'BREAD.' The word 'BRED' would fit correctly, however I did mean trained. Just kidding of coures. The dogs aren't necessarily born aggressive, we have put this trait into some of their characters.

[SaIiLdVaEnR]

Originally posted by Iceman


but honestly i find it is the owners sometimes that make the pitbulls agressive, there is a black guy a few doors away from me.

This was unnecessary to add. And I found it fairly offensive.

Aidan

[DataRipper]

all people need to do is ship some of the jap fighing dogs they can kill a pit bull and no one would ever know what it is.. it wouldent help baning a breed..

[sleddergirl]

Originally posted by ICULIZARD
sleddergirl.....

Your pits are awesome, (as are all the ones I've had experience with). I feel badly for responsible owners that now have to subject their dogs to muzzling whenever outside.

It's a scary thing.....I own Pugs and obviously I never have to worry about these type of government restrictions......but in the future I would like to be able to pick any breed that I decide fits in my family. Won't be long before Bull-Mastiffs, Neo's, Rotti's, German Shepards etc are banned also. Very sad.


Awwww, thanks. I totally forgot that someone from the board had actually met my dogs............LOL. Thanks for pointing out something nice about my babies.............:D

[kpugh]

Here's one to add fuel to the fire: My husband just said that he heard that many places are now condiering bans of any dog over 100 lbs!! Any fat labs out there? Sorry - you're gone too....I don't have any facts to back it up at this point - but these kinds of rumors often have basis in truth...What a stupid world...

[Iceman]

Originally posted by SaIiLdVaEnR
This was unnecessary to add. And I found it fairly offensive.

Aidan

lol why? cause i said the word black guy? boy my best friends are black..

or is it that i said the owners make them agressive? its the truth, deal with it..

[SaIiLdVaEnR]

Your finesse amazes me still Iceman.

I do not know nor care if you are friends with black people, but what you said came off offensive to me. Take that however you wish, I am simply stating my position.

[Iceman]

but i still don't understand why, you are going off topic in someone else post because of what? i said the word black guy? or maybe you misunderstood me when i said "black guy that lives a few doors away"

meaning a few houses away from me..

so everytime a person says the word black your gonna nag about it?

the world is a colorfull rainbow my friend, there are many colors, and many racist people to go with it, but i am not one of them..

[Matt_K]

Alright guys, leave the racial discussion out of it now.. Im sure that Iceman didn't mean anything rude, but instead, was just describing the man that lives near him in this instance.

-Matt

[Iceman]

I am very sorry about that matt, i just wanted to make it clear that i didn't mean a racial comment.

[spidergecko]

Originally posted by Iceman
boy my best friends are black..

LOL. That's classic!

[marisa]

"Here's one to add fuel to the fire: My husband just said that he heard that many places are now condiering bans of any dog over 100 lbs!! Any fat labs out there? Sorry - you're gone too....I don't have any facts to back it up at this point - but these kinds of rumors often have basis in truth...What a stupid world..."

Wouldn't surprise me. They do a blanket ban without any education or planning on the Pit issue, so just throwing in all dogs over 100 pounds would not surprise me ONE bit.

I am sure all the comfortable lab, golden, and dane owners will not feel so comfy if towns do pass the 100 pound dog rule. It's only when its someone elses animal that people fight for it. Big snakes aren't far behind Ontario folks. I give it, one maybe two "bad" press stories before snakes are in the limelight.

Marisa

[Invictus]

Next they are going to ban Pomeranians for fricken noise violations.

[Iceman]

Hhahahahahahahahah, pomeranians!

lol my friend has one they bark non stop..

it could be much worse though, they can say anyone with a pitbull has to bring it the the spca and have it put down, that would just be plain stupid.

[Shad0w]

Hahahaha,

Hey Im all for banning small dogs that do nothing other than bark outside all day long :D

[Shad0w]

Quote:

"Big snakes aren't far behind Ontario folks. I give it, one maybe two "bad" press stories before snakes are in the limelight.

Marisa"

Hey Marisa,

That brings up a good point...
I dont think 1/2 the people that buy large constrictors like Retic's, afrocks and conda's know what they are really getting into when they buy that 14 inch baby snake... maybe it wouldnt be such a bad thing to control them? (Shudder) Look at most of the snake rescues, most cases involve large constrictors.... Ah... just a side point :D

I mean cummon... What would you rather keep? A 14 foot burm that is a baby.. or a 4 foot ATB that wants to rip yer face off :D

[marisa]

It might not SOUND like a bad idea because people don't know what they are getting into...but it IS a bad idea for us herpers.

Once they can easily get people to agree the larger snakes should be banned, they will make ridiculous uneducated bans just like this one which include other harmless snakes.

I mean look at Canada now, all because of fear there is a province where you cannot even own a simple BCI, Dumerils or other boas because of the larger snakes. It was easier to blanket them all out instead of taking them time and simply banning a couple species.

Once they find they can easily ban whatever they wish, things WE like are next. And the path is paved for more uneducated, non-thought out bans.

Marisa

[Shad0w]

Heh... hence my shudders :) I guess my sarcastic tone in the post didnt get through :D

[marisa]

It did. I just like to make sure that people realize not only Pit Bull owners need to watch this case/ban carefully.

I wish more herpers who don't own Pits would be more interested in this and realize that it's simply making it easier for a ban on other animals.

Marisa

[havenbounce]

In Ottawa large snakes are already banned. The largest size constrictors allowed is 7 feet and non constrictors is 9 feet. Plus there's all kinds of spiders and insects that are not allowed.
Ginnette

[darkscale]

i belive in ottawa the size limit on boids is 2 meters
3 on colubrids and any colubrid that has a devernoys gland ie westerns hognose are ilegal here

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Well I dont, know were a lil off topic, but this is GOOD read for me.
I was thinking of a relocation to Ottowa.
I left California cuz they wanted to take my guns that I had a licence for cuz they were "Assault" rifles. I moved.
I wont give up my BCC either, so....New Plans in the making:D
Rick

[havenbounce]

Yes that's about it. I was trying to convert and round off in my head. Some are stupid like the no marsupials...so you can't even sell a sugarglider here...all because it has a pocket!
When they joined all the different cities into one big city they had to do new bylaws and 2 of the bylaws that they wanted to add (but didn't because they are soooo stupid) was: when walking a dog the max length of leash would have been 6 feet (no more flexi leads) and the other stupid law they tried to pass (ready for this one...) was if your dog ever peed on someone that they would have had to wear a sign warning people while in public...!
Ginnette

[havenbounce]

The law is only about 2 years old so they have the "grandfather" clause...but because you already own it so you wouldn't have to give it up. You just can't buy them in stores. It's the stores that they are looking for. I just got mine a month ago and I'm not worried about it. The guy 2 houses down from me has a boa that's about 16 feet long and bylaw don't him that as long as it didn't get loose there's nothing to worry about it...
You want to leave CA to move to Ottawa? Are you crazy? It's freezing here! There's snow here! And more snow and than it snows! (lol)
Ginnette

[mykee]

Since we're here to clear up misconceptions, let's get this ridiculous one out of the way:
" Goldens and labs are #1 on the bite list".
Yes, this is true, but only because close to HALF of all dogs registered in North America are goldens and labs. Of course you're going to see more G&L bites since they make up almost 50% of dog ownership. How many golden and lab "attacks" rip kids and other dogs faces off in an attack though?!.....

[Toshi]

Originally posted by DataRipper
all people need to do is ship some of the jap fighing dogs they can kill a pit bull and no one would ever know what it is.. it wouldent help baning a breed..

Oh...I think that I might recognize them ..LOL.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/507/937patherc-med.jpg

[BISHAMON]

I seen that dog in the picture l some place else,sweet looking dog but the guy beside him has to go,lol,I only have 5-6 wks left before I get my new puppy finally.

[sleddergirl]

Mykee, I don't want to go into a "who's breed is better" with you. Obviously you love your labs and I love my pits. I certainly am not putting down your breed, but for some reason, you feel the need to point out how much "better" labs are than pits, every time this topic comes up.
Honestly, if you feel the ban will never affect you as a dog owner, then I guess you don't have to worry about it.

[havenbounce]

More people might have own labs and goldens but the point was really ment to say any dog could bite. Labs and goldens were bred to be "happy and friendly" dogs. (labs are # 5 in how popular and goldens are #1) They were not bred to bite and attack so it is strange that they rank so high up in dog bites needing medical care. As for hearing about labs and goldens attacking kids and other dog...it happens all the time but the media chooses not to report it because there not pitbulls. I saw with my very own eyes a labX rip a toy poodle to shreds for no reason whatsoever! It was the most shocking thing I ever saw.
As for proof to back up what I have to say about the media...lets see how many people here heard about the dog attack that happened on Feb 20/05...before I had posted about it.
It was reported in ONE newspaper only!! The one of the Airedale Terrier that was running loose and attacked Java a service dog. The owner of Java saw the Airedale running at them so she put Java in a down position and the Airedale attacked Java anyways. Java than rolled over onto her back (the most docile position a dog could be in) and the Airedale ripped open her belly with his teeth. The as@*%^% that owned the Airedale didn't do a thing the whole time this was going on. Java entire belly was ripped open and blood was all over the place and all the owner could say was he thought they were playing, he than picked up his dog ran to his truck and took off leaving poor Java and her owner behind in a parking lot!! Java was in surgery for more than 10 hours and I still don't know if she lost her puppies. (she was trained to predict when her person was going to have a seizure. They had spend almost $20 thousand dollars training Java and had bred her to see if she would pass on her talent! When the media was contacted to see why they would right or report the story almost all of them said because it wasn't a pitbull!!! What kind of crap is that??? The only one that I'm aware of who reported it was Pulse 24 but it was 3 days after it happened.
Or about the Rottweiler and collie that killed a 3 yr old in his very own home last Dec in Maple Ridge. Did we hear about that? No. Why? Wrong type of breed, nobody wants to hear about a "killer collie"
"Dog bites occur for a number of specific and often predictable reasons. Responsible dog ownership has never been one of them" (goodpooch.com)
Ginnette

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Ginnette, Already left Cali for El Paso, TX when the Brady bill got passed. I chose to move rather than let them take my rights from me. Too bad, cus its really a great place. Born and raised.:D
As far as Ottowa goes, I have an Uncle up there somewhere I havent seen in 15 years, and hes always bugging me to come up and stay. I love the snow, and the cold. (Go figure). I would still have to get my Girl across the border, and all that. Would most likely hurt people if they tried to take her. Im sorta "possessive" of what I concider to be mine.
Toshi.......Really nice dog
Mykee.....I see yer from CDA? Perhaps the list up there is labs #1, and I dont deny that they are biters, Ive seen them bite, and do quite alot of damage. What I said was that the last list that "I saw" (stateside) put german shepherds as #1 for bites, and severe bites.
Rick

[havenbounce]

The guy I mentioned that owns the 16 foot boa is a trucker and travels over the border all the time. He brings his rottie and spanial over the border all the time. On his long halls he brings his snake too.
Would love to see the face on someone if they ever searched his rig!
Ginnette
Like snow...you must have never lived in it for a season!ha! yuck!

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Actually Ginnette, I was stationed in Alaska for 2 years in the army.
Though, it may be different when doing it "Long Term". There I have no experience.:)
Still, the pictures I saw of his home showed it to be a beautiful place.
Sorry for deviating from the original subject everyone.
Rick

[mykee]

Sledder, I'm not playing the "who's breed is better" game, because having read your threads on the topic, you are just as adamant about your breed as I am about mine. This thread is about pitts, and I just happen to own labs. Nothing against your breed as long as they stay muzzled and away from me, my dogs and my family. No personal offense to you.
I will not post again on this topic.

[tHeGiNo]

Hey guys, this was just faxed to my work by OVMA (Ontario Veterinary Medical Association) and I thought I would post it here. Here it goes:

The Province has now passed the Legislation banning pit bulls from Ontario. The legislation will not come into effect until it receives Royal Assent. In the meantime, here are answers to some common questions about the impact of the legislation.

Q. What will pit bull owners have to do to comply with the Act?

Pit bulls owned by Ontario residents when the Bill comes into force, or born in Ontario within 90 days of the Bill coming into force, will be considered "restricted" pit bulls. While pet owners do not have to give up their "restricted" dogs, it is anticipation that regulations will be enacted requiring these dogs to be spayed/neutered, leashed and muzzled when in a public place.

Q. I read that it is the dog owner's responsibility to prove a dog is not a pit bull. Is that true?

Bill 132 originally specified that the onus be on the dog owner to prove that the dog is not a pit bull for any aspect of the legislation, including the breed ban. However, the final wording of the Bill places the onus on the dog owner to prove that the dog is not a pit bull only in situations where a dog that is alleged to be a pit bull (as defined in the legislation) has attacked or menaced a person or domestic animal. For purposes of the breed ban, it will be up to the Crown to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the dog is a pit bull.

Q. According to the legislation, a document signed by a veterinary indicating that a dog is a pit bull "within the meaning of the Act" will be considered to be proof that the dog is a pit bull. Could vaccination certificates or other medical records be used for this purpose?

A vaccination certificate or other medical record is not intended to set out whether a dog is a pit bull for the purposed of the legislation, and should not be used for that purpose. However, this is new legislation and the question has not yet been considered by the Provincial Court. It is possible that the presiding judge may decide such a document can be used as evidence that a dog is a pit bull. The uncertainty will only be settled when a decision of the Provincial Court is reviewed and ruled upon by a higher court.

Q. Can I change the dog breed reference in medical records and on vaccination certificates?

You can change the breed reference, as long as you do not falsify the record. Any change in the dog's medical record must be noted in the record (e.g. you must indicate both the old and new breed designation).

Q. Could I be required to hand medical records over to local law enforcement officers?

You must provide a copy of your records if served with a warrant or subpoena. Otherwise, your records are confidential and should not be made available to a third party.

[tHeGiNo]

The legislation will not come into effect until it receives Royal Assent.

Just wanted to clear up exactly what this means, while it is still fresh in my head from law class. Basically, the steps to enacting a legislation goes as follows:

1. First Reading: After the draft is legislated, a 'first reading' takes place, upon which the bill is introduced and given the first reading. Background information and the purpose of the bill is discussed.

2. Second Reading: the principle behind the bill is debated. The minister may make a speech to open the debate, and each member can only make one speech. The bill at this point may be referred to committee for revision and further examination.

3. Third Reading: The debate is restricted fo the contents of the bill, and no amendments can be moved.

4. Voting: a vote is held. Should the vote pass, it it sent to the Lieutenant-Governor for royal assent, which basically is a symbolic gesture of the final stage final stage of the legislative process by which a bill becomes law.

So as unfortunate as it is, the idea of a ban is now a reality.

[havenbounce]

Very true but there's still that very slim chance that Lieutenant Governor Honourable James K. Bartleman will not make it official. It has happened before. (yes very rarelly)
"Commencement

3. This Act comes into force on a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor." From (6) Subsection 20 (12) of the Act is amended by adding "or the Dog Owners' Liability Act"

So wright to him...it won't hurt and it's better than doing nothing except for complaining about it.
From Bill 132

Onus of proof, pit bulls

(10) If it is alleged in any proceeding under this section that a dog is a pit bull, the onus of proving that the dog is not a pit bull lies on the owner of the dog.



Identification of pit bull

19. (1) A document purporting to be signed by a member of the College of Veterinarians of Ontario stating that a dog is a pit bull within the meaning of this Act is receivable in evidence in a prosecution for an offence under this Act as proof, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the dog is a pit bull for the purposes of this Act, without proof of the signature and without proof that the signatory is a member of the College.

Immunity

(2) No action or other proceeding may be instituted against a member of the College of Veterinarians of Ontario for providing, in good faith, a document described in subsection (1).

Onus of proof

(3) For greater certainty, this section does not remove the onus on the prosecution to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.[/B]

Ginnette

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Im far from being a law student or even being up to par on legal terminology, so on that note........

Q. I read that it is the dog owner's responsibility to prove a dog is not a pit bull. Is that true?

Bill 132 originally specified that the onus be on the dog owner to prove that the dog is not a pit bull for any aspect of the legislation, including the breed ban. However, the final wording of the Bill places the onus on the dog owner to prove that the dog is not a pit bull only in situations where a dog that is alleged to be a pit bull (as defined in the legislation) has attacked or menaced a person or domestic animal. For purposes of the breed ban, it will be up to the Crown to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the dog is a pit bull.

Am I wrong in reading that as long as your dog does not "attack, or menace a person, or domestic animal" than no proving of anything should be required?
People who have raised there pitts properly should have no worries then. except for the discomfort (both human, and dog) of having to be muzzled. I can think of some people who deserve to be muzzled more than dogs.. LOL
Rick

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Another note.
If our society hadnt become so "humane" then a simple cure for those who fight pitts and are convicted of it would be to stick them in a cage with one of those Tosa Inu's like toshi shows on page 7, and see how well they do:D
Im 100% "eye for an eye."
those who rape, should be raped, those who viciously mame, should be viciously mamed, etc. That would be a cure for a lot of bad things in our world, even if it is a little Barberic
Rick

[havenbounce]

All you need is for someone to complain about your dog and that's cause enough for them to procceed. So not only does your dog have to be well behaved you have to get along with everybody so as not to have some hatefull twitt seaking revenge call and file a complaint.
From what I've been reading the crown only needs to follow this as their guideline to say it is a pitbul "a dog that has an appearance and physical characteristics
that are substantially similar to those of
dogs referred to in any of clauses (a) to (d); (“pitbull”)"
Where as the owner has to prove it is not.

It's a bad law plain and simple.

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

Probably shouldnt say this, BUT,
the hateful twitt could disappear also. :D HA HA
Just kidding.
Yer right, does not sound like a well planned out law. includes too many variables, and generalizations
Rick

[Rainbow]

I would have to agree that this law is really very simply plain stupidity on the parts of Michael Bryant and McGuinty, neither one of them would know there *** form their face's when it comes to animals. I absolutly believe that this is not the end because banning one species will not help the problem that so obviously exsists these people who own the agressive dogs will just move on to another breed, and it is a worry to everyone because who knows which breed or for that matter which species of animal is next!!, and as for the lab and pitbull comparison I've seen going on I have to add a comment neither of these dogs are worse then the other believe it or not they can do the same amount of damage. I personally own a Lab, a Pitbull and a Rottweiler who have all went through puppy kindergarden and so on and have all past there good citizen test's and I am the first one to amit that out of all three my baby who is the lab would be the first one to bite you!! Besides the point labs and goldens are the number 1 biters but the real reason you never hear about them is because they are service dogs, therefore no matter the damage they'll be one of the last breeds to every be focused on. I see that everyone here is very passionate about the particular animals and I am very glad to see that because that is the only way we will be able to protect them in the end!!!

[tHeGiNo]

You're all right, this law was rushed, very sloppy and very disorganized.

Am I wrong in reading that as long as your dog does not "attack, or menace a person, or domestic animal" than no proving of anything should be required?

Your not wrong, but the problem here is that word 'menace.' As suggested, all it takes is a small complaint against your dog - be it, it pee'd on a lawn, barked too loud at night, looked at someone wrong - and there goes your dog.

[C.ADAMANTEUS]

This is a shame. Alot of law enforcement agencies recomend dogs for protection against property, etc. However, if or when these dogs do this, they are put down half the time, owner fined some exorbitant fee, and the dog was doing is the same thing a father or mother would do if there child was in danger.
Dogs are loyal, and I believe they see us as "their" property, and will protect it at all costs.
Is this really so different than people?
Again, seems as though this law was rushed through so some "POLITICIAN" can gain political favour.
Rick

[havenbounce]

Rick you hit it right on the head. It has nothing to do with dogs!
Ginnette