BP doesn't use hide box

[ixhuntaxi]

I just picked up a BP and he will not use his hide boxes. He is 200grams and the temperature right now is approx 80. He just sits out under the heat lamp. This is the first time i've encountered such a situation with a BP. If anyone can give advice it would be appreciated.

[Spirit]

I can't reallly help you here, but mine also RARELY uses his hides. Last night he slept in that big open space, right in the middle of the viv. Not really curled up, either... just kinda... lay there.

He's healthy, active, VERY curious, and an agressive eater though so I don't worry.

Are your hides too big? Balls like to feel safe... the tighter squeeze, the better.

[ixhuntaxi]

I have 2 hides. One under the heat lamp that is a wooden hide that is smaller and one is a rock hide which is quite large on the cool side of the tank. Could it make a difference that I had a existing bp under this hide.

[beardiefan]

It's probably trying to warm up. Should be 90-95 on the hot side and 80 on the cool side.Try bumping up the temps and see what it does. :)

[joey]

My bp hardly ever uses her hide either--she prefers to crawl under the newspaper.

I've read that using a heat lamp with balls can take alot of the moisture out of the air. Ever tried using a human heating pad under the enclosure?

[ixhuntaxi]

I have used the heatpad as well several times but they always seem to fall off...

[HeatherRose]

What do you mean fall off? Heatpads go under the cage...

[mykee]

Since you seemed to disregard the temp issue; 80 DEGREES IS TOO COLD. If the choice for your ball is either be warm, or be covered, it's going to choose warmth. Get that temp up to 90-95 degrees and get rid of that useless heat lamp, they're only good for beardies and other desert dwellers. I would also urgently recommend you purchase a few books on the basic husbandry of ball pythons.

[CamHanna]

Reiterating what others have said, balls should have a warm side around 90F-95F and a cool side around 80F. A heat pad under the tank is a good way to achieve the proper temps and maintain humidity.

As far as not using the hide, I wouldn't worry. 3/4 of my balls don't even have a hide and they do just fine.

Cam

[ixhuntaxi]

Originally posted by mykee
Since you seemed to disregard the temp issue; 80 DEGREES IS TOO COLD. If the choice for your ball is either be warm, or be covered, it's going to choose warmth. Get that temp up to 90-95 degrees and get rid of that useless heat lamp, they're only good for beardies and other desert dwellers. I would also urgently recommend you purchase a few books on the basic husbandry of ball pythons.

I don't think I totally disregarded the temp issue. If I disregarded it I wouldn't be replying right now. First off this is a help forum. People like yourself make it difficult for people with questions to post. We ask questions to people like you because we hope to get advice but of course sometimes expectation of advice will turn to expectations of ignorance. And if you represent strictlyballs.ca you are definately representing the company as somewhat ignorant in the sense that you are not understanding to the fact that some people are new at this. Just like at one time you were new. If I spent my life with reptiles, I too would have a familiarity. But that is your profession and my profession is different. For me, this is a pet, not a business and I look to get assistance but some people can be rude in their assistance. As you recommend books on the basic husbandry of ball pythons, I recommend to you books on social skills and perhaps proper interactions with other human beings. I hope I have not offended you but hopefully opened your eyes to the fact that this was a "help me" post and you turned it into a bashing post. But that's my 2 cents worth.

[Spirit]

Speaking from personal experience...

While lack of heat is of course a possible reason why your snake is basking, my viv is as this.

The warm hide sits at 95, the "semi warm hide" (more substrate) sits at 90, and he has a HUGE bush he sometimes likes to go under that DOES have a gradient from 85-95 (when he's under there just his head is always poking out through the leaves - so cute)... then the cool side of 78-83 degrees... And he STILL often likes to hang out in the big wide open space.

If he's not showing signs of stress, eating, flicking the tongue (healthy signs), I seriously wouldn't worry about it.

Cam, do your snakes live in tupperware? Just curious why no hides.

[Auskan]

ixhuntaxi, I think the frustration people felt is that this research should really be done prior to getting a new pet. The usual recommendation is to have the enclosure set up for two weeks prior to bringing the animal home. During that time you can monitor temps/humidity until you have reached the desired levels of both. Only when the enclosure is as close to perfect as you can get it, should you actually purchase a new reptile and bring it home.

That said, since that's not the way it happened, I'm glad you're on here to get the information you need.

[CamHanna]

Spirit, I do keep my balls in rubbermaids. I don't have hides because most of my balls feed well without them and they just make maintenance that much more time consuming. My balls are in the corner of my room so I suppose the seclusion and relative darkness of their location offers enough security.

Cam

[Jeff_Favelle]

80F cold end, 90F warm end (hot spot). Those temperatures are a NECESSITY, not an option. Ball Pythons can only act normal when given the normal conditions that they've evolved for thousands of years to exploit.

80F cool end, 90F warm end. A GRADIENT IS A MUST. Snakes cannot regulate their temps internally. They rely on their environment.

[mykee]

IX; firstly, my post was not meant to offend, but if you took what I said out of context, that's unfortunate.
Secondly, it does get rather monotonous and wearisome to see snake owners who disregard basic husbandry and then ask questions as to what is wrong, not that you are one of "those" people. If I bought a dog, I would want to know it's requirements, but people who buy reptiles think that they can "wing" it with reference to husbandry. Temperature is the FIRST thing that should be considered when anything is wrong with your snake, and it always seems to be the one thing that most beginners ignore.
Heat lamps, they just suck. Ball pythons do not float belly-up so an overhead (drying out the air, so proper humidity is next to impossible to maintain) heat source is for the most part, useless. Snakes, at least the ones I own, wiggle around on the ground belly down, and that's where their heat should be coming from. You had the right idea with the heat pad.
Also, I don't represent strictlyballs.ca, I AM strictlyballs.ca. It is not some huge coorperate conglomerate; it's me, (and my wife) in a bedroom in the basement of my house in suburbia, with some snakes, and some rats. It's also not my profession. I have a job that I go to every day from morning 'till late afternoon to pay my bills. I am just one of the fortunate individuals who took their passion for owning reptiles to the next level; researched, learned, studied, watched, researched, then attempted breeding, and am lucky enough to be able to sell some of my offspring to further support my snake habit and buy pretty things.
Lastly, I still suggest you doing some basic research and purchase a book or two on the captive husbandry of ball pythons, because you came here looking for help, help is in knowledge, knowledge is in books on captive husbandry of ball pythons. Good luck.

[Spirit]

Cam: The reason I asked is because I don't know anyone who puts hides in rubbermaids, unless maybe they're large and clear (and not in a rack). Much more important when housed in glass, naturally.

Jeff: I could not agree more.

Mykee: I use a heat lamp (on the cool side) and a UTH, and have had absolutely no problems whatsoever maintaining the humidity levels (and for that matter, also the temps). I won't argue that it's a HUGE pain in the butt trying to get it right, but once you figure it out, it's easy... IF done correctly. Higher maintanence, but it's not impossible (or close to it).

Where the lamp is (cool side), the temps range from 82-86 (depending on room temps), and the humidity stays a solid 58-62% for about a week. Over the UTH, temps read 92-95, and the humidity levels are slightly lower, but not much. Maybe 55%. They're roughly 3-5% less about 3/4 the way up the tank (near the lid). The humidity in my room, is 23%.

[BAFlathead]

i don't know if its the difference in the places we live, but i keep hearing everyone saying they have trouble keeping the humidity in glass terrariums in the 60% range. i have been keeping leos in glass for some time now and have had more trouble keeping the humidity DOWN to under 60%. in all of my terrariums i use UTH's and incandescent bulbs on the hot side and a 40w exo terra nite bulb on the cool side. all of my lights are on timers to give me 12/12 on the cycle. i use digital thermometers with the probe mounted 2" from the bottom of the tank on both ends and my humidity gauges at about the same level. any ideas why this is? i have a fifty breeder with a screen lid and a canopy light, 55 split in two with screen lids and canopy lights, 2 10G tanks with clampons sitting on top of the screen lids and a 29 with a screen lid and a canopy light on top that covers 75% of the screen and also has a flourescent bulb in it. i also have a 20galon that is not set up currently, but when in operation it has a screen lid and a canopy light. i have carpet in all but the 29G and it has aspen bedding for the BP i'm picking up the in the morning. any comments would be appreciated. also, the humidity here runs in the 80%+ range in the summer.

[Auskan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spirit
[B]Cam: The reason I asked is because I don't know anyone who puts hides in rubbermaids, unless maybe they're large and clear (and not in a rack). Much more important when housed in glass, naturally.

Spirit, I keep all my snakes in rubbermaids (in a rack), and I have hides for all of them too. Snakes like to use hides, so why would it make a difference whether they're kept in a plastic, glass or some other enclosure? Their need for a hide remains the same.

[ixhuntaxi]

Originally posted by mykee
IX; firstly, my post was not meant to offend, but if you took what I said out of context, that's unfortunate.
Secondly, it does get rather monotonous and wearisome to see snake owners who disregard basic husbandry and then ask questions as to what is wrong, not that you are one of "those" people. If I bought a dog, I would want to know it's requirements, but people who buy reptiles think that they can "wing" it with reference to husbandry. Temperature is the FIRST thing that should be considered when anything is wrong with your snake, and it always seems to be the one thing that most beginners ignore.
Heat lamps, they just suck. Ball pythons do not float belly-up so an overhead (drying out the air, so proper humidity is next to impossible to maintain) heat source is for the most part, useless. Snakes, at least the ones I own, wiggle around on the ground belly down, and that's where their heat should be coming from. You had the right idea with the heat pad.
Also, I don't represent strictlyballs.ca, I AM strictlyballs.ca. It is not some huge coorperate conglomerate; it's me, (and my wife) in a bedroom in the basement of my house in suburbia, with some snakes, and some rats. It's also not my profession. I have a job that I go to every day from morning 'till late afternoon to pay my bills. I am just one of the fortunate individuals who took their passion for owning reptiles to the next level; researched, learned, studied, watched, researched, then attempted breeding, and am lucky enough to be able to sell some of my offspring to further support my snake habit and buy pretty things.
Lastly, I still suggest you doing some basic research and purchase a book or two on the captive husbandry of ball pythons, because you came here looking for help, help is in knowledge, knowledge is in books on captive husbandry of ball pythons. Good luck.


Much better response. But I disagree with your statement "..you came here looking for help, help is in knowledge, knowledge is in books on captive husbandry of ball pythons", because IN FACT help is to give assistance or to aid and knowledge is familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study. I came here looking for help and thought that the knowledge from this board would assist me. To the many people that have replied to this post with their knowledgeable answers I thank you and hope to be able to use my knowledge down the road. Mykee, the response you gave now is all I was looking for initially. But, you initially answered quite rudely. I am not upset nor offended by this post, but I am just defending all the other "newbies" that may read this and feel intimidated to ask question because of such initial remarks. I am glad that things are clarified and I hope that we can help each other out in some near future.

[Lagoon]

what name brand of heat pad do you use to bring the temp up to 90

[Jeff_Favelle]

I use hides in all my Rubbermaids.

[Spirit]

Heh! I was told hides aren't neccessary when kept in a rack, as the tupperware gives them all the security they need. I disagree with that, but that's what I heard. *shrug*

ixhuntaxi: I've noticed Mykee seems to come off rude in most of his replies (imho, anyway), but I'm sure he's just thinking of the best interest of your snake. Not that I need to defend him, but I did want to say that I agree with your last reply. More flies with honey and all that. :)

But back to the thread topic... I'll have to get a pic of mine when he's in one of his hides... his head (or just the nose) is almost always sticking out (99% of the time). It's seriously cute.

[ixhuntaxi]

Originally posted by Spirit
Heh! I was told hides aren't neccessary when kept in a rack, as the tupperware gives them all the security they need. I disagree with that, but that's what I heard. *shrug*

ixhuntaxi: I've noticed Mykee seems to come off rude in most of his replies (imho, anyway), but I'm sure he's just thinking of the best interest of your snake. Not that I need to defend him, but I did want to say that I agree with your last reply. More flies with honey and all that. :)

But back to the thread topic... I'll have to get a pic of mine when he's in one of his hides... his head (or just the nose) is almost always sticking out (99% of the time). It's seriously cute.

Thanks Spirit all your help and advice is greatly appreciated, as to is Mykee's. Thanks again.