Topic brought up....ad naseum..... "When and how do you know if a Ball will eat?"

[Jeff_Favelle]

Feeding Ball Pythons is an art form. There's a RIGHT way to do it, and there's MANY wrong ways to do it.

They show you EASY clues when they want to eat (already covered in another thread here on this forum). They also show an equal number of clues when they aren't interested in feeding. Learn to read the snake(s) and you'll have a much more efficient and rewarding feeding regimen.

Open up the cage, head poking out, waving in the air, tongue flicking rapidly, snake looking like if you picked it up, it would bite you, etc etc etc. Perfect signs for a BP that would eat ANYTHING.

Graphic for those who cannot visualize this. Maximize on your screen, as I took this in complete darkness with 2-foot tongs in one hand, camcorder in another, and flashlight in my mouth. yeah, not easy. The things I do to make a point.............

http://members.shaw.ca/jefffavelle/ball_eat1_new.wmv

[Jeff_Favelle]

Also, notice I didn't fwap (yes, fwap) the snake on the head or body with the rat. Yeah, it works with some, but if you own a LOT of BP's, you'll soon realize that tease-feeding is a dead end with this species. Warmed rat, 1 inch from the nose.

[tonyb]

do you always feed your royals in the dark?

i need to get some longer tongs i think, mine are only 6" long which leaves about 3" of plastic between me and the rat......

[Bristen]

LOL! Jeff, that's a great video... I would of loved to see you film it though hehe... you should get one of those lights you can stick on your forehead with a band/strap... this would freeup one hand for stuff like that :-)

Thanks for sharing,
Bristen.

ps: I've also noticed that 90% of the time you can do whatever dance you want, if it doesn't want to eat, it just doesn't want to eat.. I have way fewer ball pythons than you, but I have noticed this before.. I still tease feed for every meal as I feel that my snakes only exercise is to "kill" their frozen/thawed rat so I often make the f/t rat put up a small fight :-)

[Artemis]

Jeff that was a cult classic right there! Python feeding meets the blair witch project! Time to send it to sundance.

I agree with the longer tongs thing too, Tony. Mine arent all that long either.

[Bristen]

Tony,

I always feed after dark... I light up the room with a small infra-red heat lamp (something like 75W), which I often dim somewhat so that it is not too bright... this way, I don't have to keep a flash-light in my mouth like Jeff heh!

Bristen.

[greenman1867]

Jeff that is an absolutely invaluable video, and yes, although the topic has been brought up many many times, I think it is still worth reposting it to help all us newbs. For example, even though I had read as much as I thought possible on feeding, I was still a bit concerned about my little girl because she is so small she doesn't really have alot of room to lose weight. However in some of the responses from you in fact, I learned something new about "signs" if a BP will feed. I had never read that anywhere before.

Please keep posting to the same tired old questions, for the second or ten it takes to reply you really are helping people out.

All you guys are such a wealth of info you have the ability to help new owners and even help convince them to really get into Herpoculture, but you also have the power to drive people away.

Anyways, thanks for the info, like I said, it is amazing. That video was awesome.

I for one know now that I am making several mistakes when feeding, and have been fortunate that 7 of my 9 snakes don't care how dumb I am and eat regardless. Now hopefully I can do the right things to help the other 2 along.

Shawn

[Vengeance]

I think Jeff is just looking for excuses for using his new Camcorder, lol :D

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL, you guys are too funny! Jerks.


;) J/K ha ha!

Tony, yeah I always feed in the dark (or mostly dark). Every snake I own is nocturnal. They'll eat during the day, but most are sleeping. Try to keep it as natural as possible.

Cheers guys! This is one thing they don't teach in all the care-sheets or BP manuals. Yet, to get them to eat, is the most important part! Go figure eh? I'll get a better video this weekend. The adult Ball Pythons are eating like MAD! I had 9 outof 11 do the exact same thing as in the video last night. :)

[Spirit]

My ball will do exactly that, but then turn away from the rat and lose interest.

I feed in a seperate container though... it's hard to tell from that video, but do you feed in the tank?

[greenman1867]

I was going to make a "new video recorder" comment too, but forgot with all the other stuff I was thinking. Very cool though Jeff, keep em coming :)

[Jeff_Favelle]

Same tank. People don't pull Ball Pythons out of their holes or rock crevixes in the wild to eat. Gotta keep it simpe for these guys. Some are monster eaters under all circumstances. Most are picky and need special conditions.

[Spirit]

I dont neccessarily mind feeding in the tank, but how does one go about doing this?

When I got my first corn, I was advised to NEVER feed in the tank for several reasons, but my concern is ingestion of substrate. The corn will eat in his sperate container, but maybe that's why my ball is being fussy about his meals? He's DEFINITELY interested in it... just won't tag it.

[BOAS_N_PYTHONS]

JEFF:

Nice video, I feed day and night but have noticed alot with Balls and ETBs the night works better and is worth trying it always.

But I think I saw you slip a $20 in the cage and the ball did what you wanted, lol.

Joking :D

Tony

[Vengeance]

Spirit

Feeding in the cage is the same as feeding out, except you don't move your Ball to a new cage. Offering the prey item should be the same, but you Ball get's to eat in what I'm sure he would feel is a much more secure enviornment.

As for substrate ingestion, if your worried about it, there are a couple of options. One being to place a piece of paper over the area you are feeding, problem with that is if your ball drags the item off the paper you run into the same problem. My suggestion would be to change your substrate. Use newspaper or paper towel as then you won't have to worry about substrate ingestion. If you dead set on a particle substrate I would get carefresh as it is one of the only substrates that I know of that advertises the fact it is safe to ingest in small amounts. I used to use care fresh, but I find that newspaper makes a better substrate, easier to controll temps, no worry of substrate ingestion, and meets the needs of my ball pythons.

[BornboreD]

I feed in their enclosure. For the simple reason of stress reduction. However, I do earlier in the day before thawing anything out, remove their water dishes just for safety's sake.

Colin

[Vengeance]

Just out of curiosity what are you trying to prevent by removing their water dishes?

[HumphreyBoagart]

I was wondering the same thing.

When I first got into BP's, I used to feed them in seperate bins to disassociate my hand going in the tank with feeding time. Most would still eat but I found certain ones would look like they're waiting for food to walk by, so I'd put them in the feeding bin and then they would have no interest in the food whatsoever. Their only concern was getting out of the new container. So I decided I was going to try and feed the picky eaters in their homes and sure enough, they snatched it up with the quickness! Like previously mentioned, in the wild nobody disturbs them and puts them in a container for feeding time, so why would we do it in captivity? Yeah most cornsnakes or boas or whatever will eat in whatever you put them in, but they're not ball pythons.

[BornboreD]

There's actually 3 reasons why I do it........

1. So they don't accidently smack their faces when striking. Very rare does this actually happen anyway.

2. To keep em from dragging their food through the water, and getting covered in substrate.

3. To stop water spillage caused by feisty feeders.

Colin

[HumphreyBoagart]

3 reasons why that doesn't matter.......

1. They can still smack their heads off the side of the enclosure anyways.

2. The mass amounts out saliva they produce while eating is alot stickier than water.

3. If your water bowl is heavy enough, they shouldn't be able to spill it by striking it by accident.

Craig

[BornboreD]

Originally posted by HumphreyBoagart
3 reasons why that doesn't matter.......

1. They can still smack their heads off the side of the enclosure anyways.

2. The mass amounts out saliva they produce while eating is alot stickier than water.

3. If your water bowl is heavy enough, they shouldn't be able to spill it by striking it by accident.

Craig

1. True.....but it's one less thing in their way.

2. They don't drool over their whole prey item, therefore there saliva doesn't cause it to get coated with aspen.

3. I didn't say the striking caused spills. I said "feisty feeders".

[HumphreyBoagart]

Originally posted by BornboreD
1. True.....but it's one less thing in their way.

2. They don't drool over their whole prey item, therefore there saliva doesn't cause it to get coated with aspen.

3. I didn't say the striking caused spills. I said "feisty feeders".

1. True, but someone doesn't move all the things out of their way in nature. Don't have the bowl directly outside the door of their hide and this can be avoided.

2. Some of mine do, I guess yours are different. You shouldn't be feeding them on aspen anyways.

3. I assumed "fiesty feeders" meant that they spilled it when they strike!?!

[BornboreD]

My balls are in racks. They don't have hides. I know of other people who feed on Aspen, and if the food is not wet, it's not a problem. Not really that much of a problem either way really. The acts of coiling and dragging their food around, can cause water bowls to tip in certain situations. For example..........Snake is wedged between side of rubbermaid and water dish. Strikes and coils food item, making itself alot larger than the space it was just in causing the water dish to get pushed, and sometimes tip.

Colin

[BornboreD]

Oh yeah, Balls in the wild don't eat on newspaper, papertowel or empty tubs. They eat on dirt, leaves, sticks, stones etc. I think they can handle a few pieces of Aspen if it happens by chance,

Colin

[HumphreyBoagart]

I know they don't, they also die of impaction in the wild too.
Seems kinda wierd that you're worried about spilled water, but not impaction? Oh well, to each his own.

[BornboreD]

Yeah, that's it. You got me!! Sheesh!!

I have heard many instances of well respected breeders, feeding their snakes on an ingestible substrate. In fact some of the most respected breeders on this site do.

I have never heard or seen of anyone having problems with aspen or impaction related to it. I would also think that Aspen probably breaks down a little easier than.......hrm......let's say cypress mulch for example. I could be wrong though.

Funny how when I responded to this thread it was in regards to the feeding in or out of the enclosure topic that was being discussed by the last few posts before mine. Now it has turned into how the substrate that I myself have chosen to use (and many others before me) is going to kill my snakes. You've made ignorant assumptions about my husbandry, and taken the "In the wild" stand in what I find to be a contradictory manner. Get off your horse pal. Don't get me wrong, the variety of thoughts and ideas, is what makes a forum rewarding. But, there's definately better ways to go about it.

Colin

P.S. You are now my Yoda.:rolleyes:

[HumphreyBoagart]

Relax buddy, everything will be okay, I'm climbing off my horse now.
Yoda

[BornboreD]

Thank you master...........

Actually, if you were abit less uptight this wouldn't of even happened. So don't ask me to relax. I have the integrity of this forum in mind not my ego.

Colin

[HumphreyBoagart]

I really don't think it was me that was "uptight".

[HumphreyBoagart]

BornBored:
I just want to apologize and clear up a few things. I had no intentions of starting an arguement with you and I was not trying to be condescending in any way, I re-read it all and I realize that that's how it sounds, but it was truely unintentional. I was not making any ignorant assumptions towards your husbandry either. You used the same "in the wild" stand by saying they don't have paper towels or newspaper in the wild which I find to be contradicting as you use that "in the wild" point against me and I find that condescending too. I once again apologize to you, and wish it never turned into this. I think I'm going to do everyone on this site a huge favour and retire.

All Apologies,
Craig

[BornboreD]

I used the "in the wild" statement to show how your statement was contradictory.

Apology, accepted. And there's no need to retire. No big deal. Came across rude is all.

:)

Colin

[HumphreyBoagart]

See that's the problem. Lately, more often than not, I find myself apologizing for starting an arguement or getting someone mad, upset or whatever, all because I sound rude or condescending. I sincerely do not try to sound like that and my only intentions on this site are to help people who need help. God knows I wish I had a site like this with so many informative opinions to help me when I was just getting into herps. It seems the harder I try to not to sound rude or condescending, the worse it is. I come to this site because I enjoy it and I want to make friends with the same interests that I have, but instead it backfires, and I find myself making enemies. I've decided that I'm not going to retire (sorry to disappoint some of you), but I am going to try even harder not to sound rude and condesending, and I truely hope that it doesn't backfire on me even harder. This is a great group of people, with lots of great ideas, and the last thing I'm trying to do is make people dislike me. After all, we are all here for the same thing; enjoyment, not arguements. So once again, I apologize to you, Colin, and anyone else I've offended in the past.
Sincerely
Craig

edit- also lets try and get this thread back on track, it can be invaluable to many.

[concept3]

i personaly remove the water dish because my bp has dropped its food in the water while positioning itself. After it fell in the water I dont know why, probably cooled it down he could not find it again.

[BornboreD]

I've had similar things happen on occasion. They drop em in the water, and seem to get frustrated and give up.

Colin

[Jeff_Favelle]

I don't use water dishes big enough for the rat to fall into. I use deli-cups. I always hated using big water dishes for Ball Pythons. So one day, I just stopped.

[greenman1867]

Really? Deli cups? Do Balls actually drink? Or soak? How do you keep your humidity up without larger water dish?

Hehe so many questions :)

Thanks, Shawn

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

Misting, Proper ventilation. They dont have to soak.

Jeff: Great video! You got skills, lol.

C.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Do Balls actually drink? Or soak?

Ball Pythosn drink. They aren't amphibians.


Ha ha thanks Chris! :)