mice VS. Gerbils for hognose

[sapphire_moon]

Mice stink, thats my reason. But I know nothing about gerbils.
Do they stink? How many do you get per liter?

I only have one snake now, My hognose, and after being loose for 3 days, he showed up, and a few days later, actually ate a f/t mouse. But I'm sure he won't do it again.

If so, then thats great, but if not, I want to get rid of those stinkin mice.

so would feeding gerbils to hognose harm them? be fine? not a good idea? don't know? what?

[HumphreyBoagart]

Gerbils and mice are about the same size, their litters are about the same size, and their pee's and poo's are about the same size, so their stink will be about the same size too! Gerbils are alot more aggressive though, that's the only difference! Keep trying the f/t mice.

[sapphire_moon]

just because they are the same size means nothing.
Male mice STINK, I can clean their cage and the next day it's as bad as if I hadn't cleaned it at all.

Believe me, I will keep trying the f/t, but he is so DARNED picky! he will ONLY(usually) eat live, and ONLY in his cage! And I figure if I have to feed live, and gerbils are fine, and less stinky, then I would rather have them than mice!

[HumphreyBoagart]

Male gerbils spray too, just like any male rodent.

[DataRipper]

mice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ReneeB]

I breed Gerbils and I've bred nice and rats and I have to say that Gerbils stink the least out of them all. They are also more friendly, and are larger as properly fed adults than mice are and since the are less prone to get fat I find they are healthier than mice. BUT Gerbils will control their populations alot better than mice so be prepared to have them breed slowly unless you remove the young at about 5-6 week (once you are sure they are weaned). I've also noticed that if you remove the males from their mates the females freak out and go canibilistic on the young. Also leave one of the previous litter's females in with mom to help with the new batch. This works great if you want to remove dad just before she gives birth, they seem to need another "adult" around.
Usually I keep one adult male, and 3-5 adult females. They are in groups of 2 or 3 females and then I add the male to either tank for a litter or two then switch, then after about 6 litters I feed off him and grow up a new male.

[sapphire_moon]

see they wouldn't be grown up that big. Only big enough for him to eat.

Ya, i've heard that to, I've heard that they usually make a "bonded" pair. This was just an idea to help keep the smell down.

Looks like it will be stinkin mice still. *sighs*

[snakehunter]

gerbils are very fatty and not as healthy as rats and mice

[sapphire_moon]

really? Where is this information at?!

[rwg]

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

[rwg]

whoops...gerbils aren't on that list.

[sapphire_moon]

i was gonna say, I'm either WAY blind, or it's just not on there! lol

[vanderkm]

Have to disagree on gerbils smelling as much as mice - in our experience they are much less smelly. They are a desert species, evolved to conserve water and urinate very small quantities - while males may mark their space a bit, the overall volume of urine is much, much less than other rodents.

In terms of breeding, a single male and female pair was by far the most efficient for us - gerbils were never productive for us with any attempt at colony breeding, and most breeders recommend a single pair per cage without removing either parent, just taking babies out by the time the parents are ready to pop out the next litter. Both parents are very good with babies, even older youngsters, as long as they have lots of space. They are very aggressive when introduced to new gerbils after weaning age - they will fight to kill.

Our biggest issue with using gerbils for feeders was that some snakes just refused to take them - even at the pinky or fuzzy stage, some individual corns, kings and milks just refused to touch them. Many of our adult corns also reject young gerbils - so be aware that your snake may not be interested in gerbils at all - even if it prefers live.

Other than that, gerbils are very inefficient to breed for feeders because they grow slowly compared to rats or mice, they waste a lot of food (chew it up but don't eat it) and they tend to be dusty because they dig a lot and chew their litter down to fine particles. They are cute and come in lots of neat colors though - we had siamese and burmese when we were breeding them.

mary v.

[sapphire_moon]

but are they ok for hogs? lol

Ya, and the single pair without seperation kinda puts a damper on things anyways. I don't litter after litter, as I am TRYING to get him on f/t. lol

[Peter Ludwig]

I've heard of adding immitation vannila extract to their drinking water will keep the smell down.

[sapphire_moon]

yes, and it doesn't work for my group...(They smell SO bad :( )

[Nicky]

Sorry can't offer an opinon as I've never worked with gerbils, just wanted to say congrads on finding your little guy:) Also just thought i'd throw in rats are the best when it comes to no smell, my friend keeps them and you'd never know thier in thier it's amazing.
Sorry couldn't be more helpful
Kayla

[snakehunter]

I cant find where I got that gerbils are fatty, it may have been hamsters, but Im quite sure I have heard they are.

[zero&stich]

sappire-

maybe move your breeding colony to another part of the house? Say the basment or another room? or maybe look into building your own breeding facility outdoors complete with heat incoperated inside to keep them warm. just a thought.

[sapphire_moon]

HA! If I had the money to build an outdoor breeding facility do you really think I would put it towards mice? As for moving them to another part of the house, no go, I have cats and dogs that have the run of the rest of the house, no basement (I am in an apartment).


As for the rats thing, tried it long ago when I did breed rats, he wouldn't eat them. And I can barely bring myself to "do in" the mice, now that I have PET rats, I don't think I could breed and kill my own rats as I no longer have any of the stuff from my "gas chamber" and would have to whack them.

and I know they hardly smell....:D ;) lol

[zero&stich]

HA! If I had the money to build an outdoor breeding facility do you really think I would put it towards mice?
I took that idea from a person I know of in Ontario, so I though it might be an option.....Take a deep breath. ;)

1 thing that has worked for me, to switch my BP's over to frozen is scenting a frozen rat with mouse urine. As gross as that sounds, it worked. If you have the stomach for it, try it out and see if you can get your Hog switched over to frozen, to whatever its capable of eating now.

Good luck.

[sapphire_moon]

lol, sorry to jump on you!

He ate another f/t mouse, so maybe there is hope ;)!!!

[zero&stich]

:D Sweet!!! Are western hoggies normally fussy? Your not the only case I have heard of with hogs fasting. Just wondering.

[sapphire_moon]

well mine is, lol, I can't really use the fact that he came from a pet shop against him, as the people there bred him, and I was able to see the mother/father.

The first time we got him, he ate a f/t for us, then he wouldn't eat anything but live, now (after he was loose for 3 days, and hadn't ate for like 3 wks), and has ate 2 times since then and both times was f/t. If he eats atleast 2 more times f/t then I will consider it a success, lol.

[zero&stich]

That's cool. Tis the season though. I think even colubrids go through their spirts of fasts. By the time mid March comes yours and mine will be volchures(sp)! :D

Thanks for the info on Hogs also.

[sapphire_moon]

ya, I've had him for over 1 yr, and I think he has ate a total of 12-14 times ;) maybe ab it more now that he has actually ate 2 wks in a row. Which he has NEVER done.

[fedupdon]

the best way is to buy f/k or f/t no smell unless you forget to put them in thr freezer

[sapphire_moon]

see though he was NOT eating f/t OR f/k. That was the problem with the smell.

Now the he is actually eating f/t I have cut back to one male, 3 females (male in own tank) so I can breed when I need to. take them out at the size I want them, and not worry about it until I get down to a few f/t mice.

[Auskan]

Sapphire, since you are only feeding one snake right now (and he doesn't eat that often!), it would probably be more economical for you to just buy food for him. I have a couple of places I can buy live feeders from around me (yes, even pinkies) , so you might be able to find some near you too?

As for your original question, gerbils smell less than mice because they are a desert species and thus use less water and urinate less. They are also not fatty - that is hamsters. Their litters tend to be smaller than for mice - 4-8 - and they don't produce litters quite as often. The gestation is about 28 days versus 21 for mice, and after the litter is born, although they will mate immediately, implantation of the new embryos will be delayed if the mother is nursing, so the next litter won't be born until around 54 days after the first. A bonded pair is best. Females will often fight if there is a male around. I have heard that if keeping more than two together, its actually better to have one female, two males, but I don't know if this is accurate or not.

[sapphire_moon]

I am sure I could. But I don't like the feeling of throwing away money when he doesn't eat. So I would rather breed.