Tiger Salamander question

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

Can you have more than 1 male Tiger Salamander in a tank? Or will they fight? I was curious, because I want to get 2 more, but if males will fight I need to have my salamander sexed and find out what it is.

Oh and do adults even need a water dish to soak? I have one in the terrarium, a shallow dish, and he does go in every so often (dirt in the water, plus I have seen him laying in it, but very seldom do I catch it) I know if I plan on breeding them I will need a water section with some plants in the water, but I am not really interested at this time. Just need to know if he requires it.

Oh and it there a type of live moss you can use in terrariums? something very fine and soft, not deep, maybe 1 cm thick? Kind of like a sheet? I am going to be getting more sphagnum, but wouldn't mind a different texture than it.

[Double J]

Originally posted by TLH_Wär§cöötmän
Can you have more than 1 male Tiger Salamander in a tank? Or will they fight? I was curious, because I want to get 2 more, but if males will fight I need to have my salamander sexed and find out what it is.

Males will not fight.. they are not geckos :D If you want to get two more, I suggest two things:

1) get a bigger tank. A 20 gallon tank will far too crowded. A 23 long would be the *minimum* I would suggest... and remember, these salamanders need ground space not height.

2) get that wood frog out of there!!!!!!!!!!! With two more salamanders in the tank, the little wood frog will be lunch in no time... that is if it already hasn't been eaten yet

Originally posted by TLH_Wär§cöötmän
Oh and do adults even need a water dish to soak? I have one in the terrarium, a shallow dish, and he does go in every so often (dirt in the water, plus I have seen him laying in it, but very seldom do I catch it) I know if I plan on breeding them I will need a water section with some plants in the water, but I am not really interested at this time. Just need to know if he requires it.


Absolutely! All amphibians should have some sort of water receptacle in which they can soak. A shallow dish large enough for the salamander to fit its entire body in is necessary. As for breeding these...... I wouldn't bank on it. To do this would be rather complicated, and require a rather large and elaborate outdoor enclosure.

Originally posted by TLH_Wär§cöötmän
Oh and it there a type of live moss you can use in terrariums? something very fine and soft, not deep, maybe 1 cm thick? Kind of like a sheet? I am going to be getting more sphagnum, but wouldn't mind a different texture than it.

You could try java moss...... as it can be trained to live on land though it must be kept *very moist.* You can buy java moss at most fish shops...... it is primarily an aquatic plant. It will require good lighting.... at least two fluorescent bulbs if you want any sort of growth.

[samurai]

my tiger is in the water alot of the time,

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

FYI I have the Salamander in a 27 gal and the frog has his own 20 gal until summer. I did this a very long time ago, so you can stop badgering me about separating them, even tho I think if the Salamander did eat the frog it would not hurt him. That was not the question of this post.

I think I am going to make a buried hide with about 1/2cm to 1cm of water in it. Shallow enough so he can lay in it and soak, but buried so he feels safe. I might make 2 hides like this.

I think I will look into the moss. I'd like to get some leaves )plastic??) so I can make a sction leaves for him to crawl in. Anyone know if an companys make a product like this??

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

Samurai, you have a pic of your terrarium you could send me??

[HeatherRose]

even tho I think if the Salamander did eat the frog it would not hurt him

Might hurt the frog though ;)

[samurai]

nope i dont sorry, but its a large plastic kinda thing, hard to describe because i dont see them around really. almost just like tupperwhere. ive got a good layer of eco earth in it probably about 6 inches deep, then a piece of bark, and a few stones, the water dish is just a tupperhwere sandwich container burried so its level with the eco earth, with a stone in it so he can climb out. thats about all.
i said "he" but i really dont know do you know how to sex them because i have no idea. and what do u feed yours i cant believe the appetite on mine, crickets worms fish pinkies seems like anything he can get in his mouth

[Double J]

Originally posted by TLH_Wär§cöötmän
FYI I have the Salamander in a 27 gal and the frog has his own 20 gal until summer. I did this a very long time ago, so you can stop badgering me about separating them, even tho I think if the Salamander did eat the frog it would not hurt him. That was not the question of this post.

I see. You failed to mention this in the other thread on the subject. My post was not intended to be rude.. rather I was trying to be helpful. You did ask if any fighting would occur between the salamanders. I answered that, and gave you a friendly reminder about the wood frog.... as it seemed relevant. Regardless of what would happen to the salamander if it ate the frog...... I think it is rather clear what would happen to the frog if he was eaten :D The 27 gallon will be a great size for housing a few tiger salamanders.

Originally posted by TLH_Wär§cöötmän
I think I am going to make a buried hide with about 1/2cm to 1cm of water in it. Shallow enough so he can lay in it and soak, but buried so he feels safe. I might make 2 hides like this.



1 cm is not nearly deep enough... they need to be able to be completely submerged when soaking. These salamanders can swim.. they just have problems with current. The water should be at least two inches deep or so.. with easy access out of the water. There is no need to put the water dishes under hides...... they will want the hides to be used as openings for burrows and holes.

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

I am not sure of the sex of my Tiger, but I think it may be a female. A friend of mine suggested that I lower the tank temp to induce a breeding phase, and he said if the hemphenal bulges (not sure if thats the proper term for a sal) swell, its most likely a male. I feed my guy dusted crickets and waxworms. I am going to get some earthworms or trout worms soon and let him chow down :) How big is yours?? Mine is about 290mm (11"), but is still slowly growing.

[samurai]

wow mines like 7 inches i didnt think they got that big i thought 8" was max. mine has lots of space tho id like him to get that big. is mine getting enough calcium feeding it pinkies and fish with the crickets

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

I plan on getting a custom tank made for him eventually, with a water side. I was thinking of a glass terrartium about 48"Lx24"Wx15"H. This should be plenty of room for 2 or 3 salamanders. I was thinking of a 12"Lx24"W section of water too on the left side. I might get a fogger for it too.

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

Originally posted by samurai
wow mines like 7 inches i didnt think they got that big i thought 8" was max. mine has lots of space tho id like him to get that big. is mine getting enough calcium feeding it pinkies and fish with the crickets I had mine in a 20 gal for a long time, and he just grew and grew and grew...his body is like 1.5" wide and over 1" tall. Just a mamoth size as far as I have seen.

[samurai]

ya, you can really make a good looking tank. ive seen some really nice planted tanks with a pond edge type setup. it looks really good and there were combined animals and they didnt eat each other altho the tiger was fairly small. there was even a betta in the deep water area of the setup, although im sure it ended up as food once the salamander grew up.

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

I'm definitly putting in some smaller feeding fish, that are about 1" max, once I get the new tank. He used to eat a few when I had him in the 20 gal that had a section of water that was 3" deep, but I think I will make it a bit shallower next time, with a large slab of rock that has a layer 1" under water and a layer just above water, both big enough for him to be on in the middle of the water. I think 2" is good like Double J suggested.

I am a little leery tho. I noticed that Laguna (my Tiger) had difficulties getting out of the water so I had to make a whole bunch of silicone "bars" across the ramp for better grip. I plan on finding something to coat the glass ramp with that will be very grippy even when wet. Plus I noticed he would go swimming into a corner and get a little spooked. If you are going to make a split tank, make sure the grade of the ramp is no more that 15-20% grade. Any higher may be hazardous IMO. I think the pond in the center of the tank, instead of 1 side of tank being water, is the way I will go, more along the lines of a pond in your backyard. I'm not sure how I will do this, but I will figure it out. I don't think I will use glass divider this time.

Right now I am setting up several gecko tanks, so the salamander tank is on the backburner for a while. he likes his 27 gal, and once I get the big tank made I can use the 27 gal for geckos.

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by TLH_Wär§cöötmän
FYI I have the Salamander in a 27 gal and the frog has his own 20 gal until summer. I did this a very long time ago, so you can stop badgering me about separating them
Simma down...
How was Double J supposed to know you had separated them when you hadn't mentioned it in that previous post of yours? I'd imagine it's nothing personal and he's only looking out for the well-being of your animals.
Glad you separated them, though I wouldn't say it was a very long time ago as the problem was only brought to your attention in mid-January.
Cheers,
Ryan

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

I got a good idea for the pond I want to make, anyone ever tried this??

Take a heavier door screen, make a mould of the design, coat it with an epoxy, and stick sand to the epoxy. It seems like a very cheap and good way to make the pond, and any water hole design you like too. Thoughts/recommendations on the epoxy? I've never used the stuff so I am woundering if it is toxic or not. I am going to be dropping in to RONA tonight and I'm going to inquire there too.

[samurai]

you should post a pic of your tiger, id like to compare the size to mine

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

K gimme 15 minutes or so to take pic, DL it and resize it......

[samurai]

cool

[Double J]

The most natural looking way to do this would be to have the sloping glass as you originally planned... but then to silicone some cork bark to the sloping piece of glass. This will look far nicer than glued sand, and the cork bark will last forever. This is the way I would do it anyway. Though cork may be a little expensive..... this will look incredible.

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

Here's my Tiger Salamander (Ambystoma tigrinum) named Laguna.

Is cork bark water proof?? I am putting about 2" of water at least, if not 3", depending. I would much rather make a pond in the center than glass divide an end of the tank, but I will look into the cork bark if I have to resort to the glass.

[Double J]

I am not sure about the epoxy... I would hesitate to use it around amphibians. Epoxy tends to smell for an awful long time from my experience... and I would be afraid about what would leach out of it and into the water.
As for cork bark... that stuff is next to magical. It never rots.... and can be kept soaking wet for YEARS and show little to no signs of rotting. After all.. that is why it is used to keep wine bottles sealed. The cork bark looks as natural as you can get, and in a most environment.. sometimes neat little ferns and those sorts of things tend to sprout on them spontaneously... much like getting new corals from live rock.

I swear by the stuff. It is expensive... but is actually much cheaper than those cheesy resin tank ornaments.... and looks far nicer.

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

I m going to try finding some form of plastic. If I can find thin plastic pieces and cut them into shape, then silicone them together. Anyone know where I can go check out corkbark in Edmonton? lol

[Double J]

Try some of the chain stores... Super Pet in Ontario tends to carry it.


Mark at Understory Enterprises will likely ship you some if you want it, and can't find it out west.

Here is a link to his site:

www.understoryenterprises.com

Good luck.

[sneaky_boa]

I use both epoxy and silicone in my lab for a number of things. the epoxy (not special 'medical' epoxy or anything, just regular home depot stuff on a smaller scale) we use for fine wire electrodes which penetrate the skin and lodge directly in human muscle tissue. I say, if it's safe for this minor type of invasive procedure, it's safe for your animals!!

[Double J]

Originally posted by sneaky_boa
I use both epoxy and silicone in my lab for a number of things. the epoxy (not special 'medical' epoxy or anything, just regular home depot stuff on a smaller scale) we use for fine wire electrodes which penetrate the skin and lodge directly in human muscle tissue. I say, if it's safe for this minor type of invasive procedure, it's safe for your animals!!

Still.... amphibians are far more sensitive to chemicals than we are. Isopropyl alchohol is safe for use on our skin.... mouthwash is safe for use on our bloody gums.... we use orajel in our sore mouths..... and peroxide is safe for use on our cuts. To compare.... isopropyl is used for euthanizing amphibians, and a mere drop of orajel on a frogs back will euthanize it as well. I think comparing what is safe to humans to what is safe for use around amphibians is like comparing apples and oranges... though I would suffice to say that apples are closer to oranges than we are to amphibians :D Let's not forget that with the minute amounts of epoxy used in the skin penetrating electrodes and any chemicals that may leach from it... we are far more massive than a small salamander.... and thus a salamander would be affected to a far greater degree if absorbing similar levels of the same chemicals.


Still....... I know little about the chemical properties of epoxy..... so I could be wrong.. but we cannot forget how sensitive amphibians can be.... so I would err on the side of caution.

[sneaky_boa]

You know...those are all very good and very valid points Double J! Well spoken!

[TLH_Wär§cöötmän]

Oh BTW I am going to use aquarium silicone. If its safe for fishies and newts, it is going to be safe for my Tiger :) And I am using plastic grids for knitting (?? I think) to form the lagoon. I might not get to it for a little bit but I will post a pic once its done.