colony housing?

[gargoyle]

Just wondering if anyone keeps groups of Rosy Boas together year round? And if this is a safe practice or not.

[chameo_liz]

Cnat help you with the colony part but if you dont have enough space for some of them I can help you and take a couple off your hands:)

Kris

[gargoyle]

I'm sure you could. We'll see about that next year when I'm breeding mine! How's the rock wall coming, done anymore since the pics?

[chameo_liz]

yeah i threw some peat moss in with the clear coat for more texture just waiting fo it to dry to see how it looks.

Keep me in mind for them and bloods

Kris

[BoidKeeper]

It's not a safe practice for any snake.
Cheers,
Trevor

[gargoyle]

Will do you're on the top of the list! Can't wait to see the pics with the new work on the wall!

[rwg]

Originally posted by BoidKeeper
It's not a safe practice for any snake.
Cheers,
Trevor

Sorry Trevor...you're mostly right, but blanket statements like this are bound to be just a little bit wrong. Me being the pedantic *** that I am, I feel compelled to point that out.

Many snakes are a very bad idea to keep communally. Obviously kings top the list, but many others as well. Most snakes fall into the category of "you will probably get away with it but it's really not worth the risk". Finally, a few do very well in communities. Some garter snakes for instance seem to benefit from living in groups as long as the space is adequate.

If you dont know about your species, you should probably not do it. If you are not experienced in seeing the signs of stress in your animals, you should probably not do it. If you are not prepared to have all cage-mates examined and/or treated when one gets sick, again, you should probably not do it. If you can say yes to all these things, you still should probably not do it, but at least you 've got a decent chance of success.

other Roy

[gargoyle]

No problem I don't have any plans to do this, I did see it on a care sheet for them stating that it was OK so I just wanted to double check. Thanks for the input!

[BoidKeeper]

Some garter snakes for instance seem to benefit from living in groups as long as the space is adequate.
Talk about blanket statements. They seem to benefit or they do benifit. If they do benifit in some way please list at least one benifit to forcing solitary animals to live together year round.
Yes gater brumate together and can be seen thousands at a time in a matting ball but that is not year round behaviour.
Trevor

[rwg]

Forums suck for conveying tone, so I want to get this out of the way. I believe in what I'm saying BUT, I do respect your experience and opinions on the matter. I'm looking at this as a lively debate, not a pissing contest, so anyway...

My statement is anything but blanket. I use "seem" because who's to say if they really do or dont benefit? If they feed well and reproduce, is that all the evidence we need? If that's the case I have seen very many species do well communally.

In a thread on this subject months ago, I quoted Jonathan Crowe who noted that some of his garters seemed to do better in groups than as solitary animals. You can search for my post here, or look for the info yourself on his website (gartersnake.info I think). He is generally considered to be an expert on captive care of gartersnakes. At the time I did a lot of web searching too, and found references to studies done with rattlesnakes where they showed some social tendencies. Sorry I cant quote the study here and now, but if you find my other post on the topic it's in there.

Seriously though, I respect your experience and your opinion, but I dont think either one of us has enough experience to say that it is unsafe to keep ANY snake communally. It's a good idea to discourage new keepers from keeping snakes communally, but let's not assume we know everything there is to know about snake husbandry. I sure dont, and no offence, but I dont think you or anyone else does either.

Also, you refer to all snakes as solitary animals, and I dont think that's quite right. Many snakes are primarily solitary year around. Common garters in the northern end of their range can spend about half the year in brumation. You completely dismiss that as being important to their well-being. I dont know the answers, but who's to say that keeping them solitary all year isn't more stressful to garters than keeping them communally all year? In both cases you are seriously affecting the amount of interaction they would naturally have with other garter snakes in the course of a year.

Now let me ask you this. With well over 2000 species of snakes worldwide, can you say with certainty, from your own knowledge and experience that there is not one species anywhere that is even SAFE to keep communally? Because that's a pretty strong statement.

For the record, I do keep my 3 garters communally. None of them have any issues with feeding, and even though they have ample space and hiding places, they seem to rest together when not cruising. I know this is just one data point, and doesn't prove anything. I only mention it because it is relevant to the discussion.

other Roy

[Jeff_Favelle]

I've seen a Rosy Boa eat another, smaller Rosy Boa. So I wouldn't do it. If I couldn't house 3 Rosies in separate cages, I wouldn't acquire 3 Rosies.

[Stockwell]

I've seen and heard of a great many cases of various snakes eating each other, or injuring each other.. It's simple law of averages. If you keep enough snakes together over a long enough time, you'll have your own story to tell.
To furthur Jeff's comment, I also have seen Rosy boas strike and constrict cage mates during the breeding season. It's scary enough just leaving them together overnight in May to breed. Keeping them together all year around is just asking for a feeding accident. Plus rosies have touchy digestive systems, and one snake disturbing the other can result in a regurge, then you will be faced with trying to figure out which one was sick.
I very nearly lost a male Borrego last year, that I found being tightly constricted by his female cage mate. When I found them, they were both in a tight constriction ball and the female was certainly winning and had his head in her mouth, ready for ingestion. Fortunately I separtated them and he survived.
Like many snakes, female rosies in the breeding season have stronger than normal feeding responses.. Mine will strike at water bowls, hooks and anything else moving close to them, including mates and..... me!

[Jeff_Favelle]

I think I would listen to the guy (Unkie Roy) who has been breeding the things longer than we've been alive.

Yeah, he's old. Happy belated man.

But he speaks the truth. Not opinion or heresay. FACT.

[gargoyle]

No worries about the space for my new ones here, I've got an empty rack system that holds 20 2220 rubbermaids. I think that should give me enough room for any new rosies I end up with! All of your input is well appreciated and is just confirming what I figured in the first place, but at the same time I did know someone that kept a group of ribbons in a larger natural setup for years with no problems! I by no means would put my animals at a risk if I thought there was even a 1% chance of something going bad though. Again thanks for the input! I'll post some pics of the new rosies next week!

[Jeff_Favelle]

Awesome!!!! :D

[Piers]

Hunting for garter snakes and decays back in Ontario I'd often find 2 or more under the same logs, here in B.C. I usually find rattle snakes in groups close to the den,between 2-7 all within 10-20ish feet.
Do they benifit? I couldn't tell you but I've seen it enough times in my life to be more than chance.
As for keeping snakes together, generally I'd say no.
Piers